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Sound processing Cleveland stations
- Thread starter Freak31
- Start date
Really?! There's been times that they sound pretty bad when it comes to the dynamic range compression. Their multi-band compression is too aggressive, making the EQ sound flat and brick-walled. Their single-band compression is pretty bad too. You can hear the volume decrease and recover during "We Will Rock You".
And what is Omnia? I assume that's the manufacturer of their audio processor?
Ask and ye shall receive:
Out of all the iheart stations in the area, WHOF Sunny 101 sounds the best, at least to me,
Out of all the iheart stations in the area, WHOF Sunny 101 sounds the best, at least to me,
Yes, In my opinion it sounds pretty good and also for their format 70's and 80's. Processing is above all a taste thing b.t.w.
Whenever I've heard both Magic 105 and The Lake play the same song, I always prefer how it sounds on Lake. Less "smashed" and mudded up.
The Omnia and the Orban processors are used by almost all significant market FM stations. They are intended to be used at the final stage of audio processing, after any AGC / leveling device is used on the studio output. Either of the two both do peak limiting to prevent illegal over-modulation and compression using multi-band systems with an almost infinite number of possible settings.
(There are other processors, some good ones from Europe, too. But the two that are named are the most often used in the US)
Ironically, I've heard AM stations with a music format feature less aggressive processing, presumably because of the nature of AM, the highs that are usually compressed to nothingness on FM are not present. Then again, the audio processing maybe tuned and EQ'ed in a way to sound better on AM. This is assuming that the AM station is transmitting at its maximum bandwidth and isn't limited to something like 5 kHz, as would be the case for any AM with IBOC, and that the receiving radio has decent wide-band reception.
As for most of the FMs, the stereo separation/widening does sound decent, even if it's a bit overdone.
Ah, OK. I have heard of Orban, though.
Also, I'm under the impression that today's modern digital processors can be too harsh, where an analog processor could make the audio sound more natural and warmer, even if the source is digital. Some audio enthusiasts prefer to use an external amp with tubes for their DACs for this reason.
I still have stored in my basement an audimax volummax agc and limiter pair. Before multiband processing they were the standard for AM and FM. We used to run the volumax deep into the red to get the loudest sound and max AM power we could.
Durrough was the first tri band processor I saw and there are others. Omnia is a gold standard, yea Steve Church and Frank Foti.
But digital audio processing precludes listening off air because of the slight delay.
Durrough was the first tri band processor I saw and there are others. Omnia is a gold standard, yea Steve Church and Frank Foti.
But digital audio processing precludes listening off air because of the slight delay.
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I've been told by the an engineer there all stations using Omnia, plus some processing also done via the Cloud. They're also using Voltair.... IYKYK. WMJI sounds terrible. Best it sounded was in the late 90s, early 00s. Analog processing.
I remember when WTAM had that reverb effect applied to their processing. WMJI even did this as well, though it was likely applied at the studio as it only affected the DJs when on the air.
I've noticed that WAKR AM 1590's processing sounds a bit harsh. As one of the few AMs left with a music format, I believe that their digital processor is not set correctly for music on AM, or that it can't replicate the sound or curves of an older analog processor. I have some tapes from another AM station that date back to 2000, and the processing sounded very good and pleasing to the ear. However, over the years, the frequency response slowly started to degrade, and it was likely switched out with a digital one in 2006 when the station launched their IBOC carrier.
Reverb was used because properly done it can sound really cool on an AM top 40 station (personal opinion). IIRC a lot of the Nationwide top 40 stations had reverb at one time or another. This is a Cleveland site so I bet anyone who lived there pre 1980 has heard it on 1220 at on time or another.
With derailing the thread to engineering, back in the day it was believed the AGCs have a little "extra" low audio to hold on to and would try to "pump up" so the average seemed higher.
With derailing the thread to engineering, back in the day it was believed the AGCs have a little "extra" low audio to hold on to and would try to "pump up" so the average seemed higher.
IIRC, my parents had an old stereo console (Motorola something) from the 60s that had a built-in reverb unit, so anything played through it could benefit from reverb. Now such a product would do this digitally, or you could just take a digital file and add a reverb effect to it using something like Audacity.
One of the most distinctive reverb radio sounds was that of 77 WABC. It was unique because they actually used the old echo chamber ABC had for sound effects in radio dramas. It took up an entire room and had a speaker on one end and a microphone on the other. The entire WABC audio signal was fed through it, giving the station an authentic echo effect. Most other stations who used reverb back then utilized modified spring reverb units from electric guitars. which had a "springy" sound to them.
Locally, WIXY was the first to use reverb, as PD Gerry Spinn put it, to give the station little more "tunable" space on the dial. (And mask some of the AM hash, especially at night.) Eventially, WHK and WKYC (mike only) would use reverb in their Top 40 era.
Coousin Brucie tells the story that every now and then he would get into the WABC echo chamber room when one of his friends was on the air and bang on the side of the box which would make a loud and explosive sound in the DJ's headphones! (And on the air!)
Locally, WIXY was the first to use reverb, as PD Gerry Spinn put it, to give the station little more "tunable" space on the dial. (And mask some of the AM hash, especially at night.) Eventially, WHK and WKYC (mike only) would use reverb in their Top 40 era.
Coousin Brucie tells the story that every now and then he would get into the WABC echo chamber room when one of his friends was on the air and bang on the side of the box which would make a loud and explosive sound in the DJ's headphones! (And on the air!)
Uh... no. They used an EMT plate reverb unit at the transmitter site:
JIM HAWKINS' WABC RADIO 77 Transmitter Page
Photo and informational tour through WABC Transmitter Site
j-hawkins.com
It had been used for sound effects and was about 6 foot long and 6 or 8 inches wide, a good sized unit. As to Brucie's story about banging on the sides, maybe it was in the studios in the beginning or maybe the engineers bumped into it? WABC turned it off during newscasts. WIXY left theirs on all the time, even during public affairs programs.
One writer romantically put it that WABC meant to recreate the "sounds of the canyons of Manhattan".
Some of the lousy sounding songs may be traced back to bad source material. A bad dub or (believe it or not) and old file dubbed from vinyl.
WMMS used reverb in the 80s, under Gorman. WMJI had reverb til the early 00s. When Dave Popovich took over from Denny Sanders he took the 'verb off.
I don't know what MMS used. WMJI used a Harmonizer H3000B, St. Peter's Cathedral preset, 4% wet. Was on the whole signal. NEVER just put reverb on the mic.
The right amount - a little goes a long way - enhances the overall signal. EQ is important.
I may be mis-remembering but I seem to recall that WHK had reverb when they were doing an oldies format back in the late 80s. Or it least sounded as they did on my Pioneer AM stereo radio.
A little trick I used last century was when loading vinyl onto a cart or later a PC, was to take some cheap rubbing alcohol and make sure the record was wet when recording the track. Didn't stop cue burns but did cut down on some static.
"14K" did use reverb in their early years (mid 80s), but towards the end of their all-live years -- and definitely when they went mostly with the automated "The Oldies Channel", I don't recall hearing the reverb at all.
Now that I look back at the rise and fall of WHK's foray into oldies, it's interesting to note that towards the end, they were getting killed by their own sister station WMJI after Majic slowly transitioned from AC -- to AC by day/Denny Sanders' oldies show at night -- to all oldies.