Licensee of WSRE ends PBS affiliation for the Pensacola TV market.

[IM42A]

So the Camden 23 and Trenton 52 stations are on the same tower, airing identical programming. And the Montclair 50 and New Brunswick 58 stations are also on one tower, airing the same programming. Yes, really silly. But the state made hundreds of millions of dollars by doing it. I live in NJ and almost never tune in NJ PBS.

I have to wonder if this was to retain all four licenses, rather than relinquishing two of them. WNTV/WRET in Greenville and Spartanburg respectively (SCETV) are in a similar situation, and they use separate PSIP data for what is essentially one station. I've had to wonder if that, too, is to keep both licenses active.

 

[TheBigA]

And yes, NJ PBS will shut down. But it really is not just a secondary PBS service, it's a tertiary service.

It has nothing to do with PBS. The reason it exists is because the state of NJ has no actual local TV stations. It's either NY or PA. In the 60s, the state established a group of stations that would focus primarily on NJ issues and news. The system existed until Chris Christie spun it off to the NY and PA PBS stations. Now that contract is up, and NJ will be back to no local TV anymore.

I have to wonder if this was to retain all four licenses, rather than relinquishing two of them.

It's a good question. Seems to me it would make sense to run them as college stations from either Rutgers or Montclair State. They will never be able to justify the expense of a state system again. That train left the station a long time ago. I'm told the state makes money leasing space on the antennas.

 

[Gravel Switch]

Situations such as this often arise due to mandates or support from local entities such as colleges. WPTO was the old WMUB that was associated with Miami University, and WPTD was a simulcast of it (they later adopted separate schedules). WCVN is one of the KET stations, all of which relay WKLE Lexington, with the exception of WKMJ Louisville that has a different subchannel mix. Indeed, WKMJ is a holdover from when Louisville had its own PBS station, WKPC, which before going with KET was under the aegis first of the Louisville public library, then Jefferson County Schools, and later, a free-standing corporation. Yet another example of how multiple PBS stations arose locally and in many cases created redundancies.

You had much the same situation in the Huntington WV tri-state area, where at one time there was WMUL/WPBY/WVPB from Huntington (now moved to Charleston), WKAS Ashland (KET), and WPBO Portsmouth (satellite of WOSU), with WOUB Athens (Ohio University) available in the northern part of the market. WOSU sold WPBO's spectrum and closed it down, but the other three stations remain to this day.

Yes, excellent examples of over-the-top redundancies, even in smaller markets.

 

[TheBigA]

Yes, excellent examples of over-the-top redundancies, even in smaller markets.

But since PBS isn't a commercial operation, redundancies don't matter. As long as the station can afford to pay the membership fee, they get to carry the programming. The more affiliates PBS has, the more money they make. Even if that means 4 stations in the same town. How those stations differentiate themselves is up to them.

Also, since all of these stations are individually owned, it's not as though the money spent on one station can be applied to another.

PBS offers a wide variety of programming, and its possible to schedule it so there is no real time duplication.

Lastly, the stations didn't need to carry PBS to qualify for federal funding. The funding is based on other things, such as staffing and local fundraising. So the stations chose to carry PBS for programming reasons.

 

[IM42A]

Yes, excellent examples of over-the-top redundancies, even in smaller markets.

When WOSU closed down WPBO, they said that this part of far southern Ohio already had abundant PBS coverage, but this ignored the fact that these stations, aside from WOUB, provided no programming that would address Ohio interests. WOUB can likely be received as far south as Gallipolis and Jackson, but Scioto, Lawrence, and probably most of Adams and Pike counties are left without in-state OTA public TV. Keep in mind too that the terrain down that way is pretty rugged. Translators of either WOSU or WOUB in Portsmouth and Ironton would be a good thing. It's also worth nothing that WOUB does a nightly local newscast for southeastern Ohio, staffed by broadcast journalism students. They do a pretty good job.

It was probably all about getting that cash for selling the spectrum.

 

[epmarkr]

Just to fill in some gaps. First, Channel 3 WPSU, the Penn State University PBS station, will become a full time simulcast of WHYY 12 Philadelphia. So North Central PA will continue to see PBS shows. WHYY also has a simulcast in Delaware.

And yes, NJ PBS will shut down. But it really is not just a secondary PBS service, it's a tertiary service. In NYC, it's WNET 13 first, WLIW 21 second and NJ PBS third. In Philly, it's WHYY 12 first, WLVT 39 second and NJ PBS third. When the FCC was handing out giant checks to stations to get off their UHF channel, NJ PBS, which had four transmitters covering nearly all the state, gave up two of its transmitters. So the Camden 23 and Trenton 52 stations are on the same tower near Camden, airing identical programming. And the Montclair 50 and New Brunswick 58 stations are also on one tower, near New Brunswick, airing the same programming. Yes, really silly. But the state made hundreds of millions of dollars by doing it. I live in NJ and almost never tune in NJ PBS.

PBS is a great source of intelligent television. So many quality children's programs, Nature, Nova, well-crafted British imports. But these conservative states that want to make liberals cry, don't like the PBS news shows. They either control the state public television service or they control the state university system that set up the state public television service. I'm not opposed to PBS stations no longer getting government money. But it's more than just the money, it's the message too.

What is your evidence to suggest that WPSU will become a full time simulcast of WHYY ? I'm not saying it won't, but it seems like pure speculation.

 

[Rollo-Smokes]

...Channel 3 WPSU, the Penn State University PBS station, will become a full time simulcast of WHYY 12 Philadelphia. So North Central PA will continue to see PBS shows. WHYY also has a simulcast in Delaware.

Where did you hear that? Can you provide a source? Because nothing in either WHYY, Inc.'s or Penn State's announcements stated that they were going to simulcast on either radio or TV. And in case you forgot, Philadelphia/Wilmington and State College/Altoona/Johnstown are very distinct markets.

The WHYY-TV simulcast in southern Delaware (via WDPB in Seaford) is irrelevant to this discussion.

...And yes, NJ PBS will shut down.

Again, you're making an assumption. All we know from the official statement is that WNET/Public Media NJ will not be renewing the contract with the NJPBA when it expires on June 30.

Will the four stations go dark after that? No one knows. A lot can happen between now and then, but as of this writing "then" is just 11 weeks away. If anything, the outgoing gubernatorial administration and previous state legislature chose to push it off for the next governor/legislative session to deal with. Now, they're on the clock.

One thing we know for certain, and on which we can all agree, is that the state-controlled New Jersey Network TV system isn't being revived.

I live in NJ and almost never tune in NJ PBS.

Then, why are you even commenting?

Some friendly advice: Stop creating speculation without proof to support your claim.

 

[Gravel Switch]

When WOSU closed down WPBO, they said that this part of far southern Ohio already had abundant PBS coverage, but this ignored the fact that these stations, aside from WOUB, provided no programming that would address Ohio interests. WOUB can likely be received as far south as Gallipolis and Jackson, but Scioto, Lawrence, and probably most of Adams and Pike counties are left without in-state OTA public TV. Keep in mind too that the terrain down that way is pretty rugged. Translators of either WOSU or WOUB in Portsmouth and Ironton would be a good thing. It's also worth nothing that WOUB does a nightly local newscast for southeastern Ohio, staffed by broadcast journalism students. They do a pretty good job.

It was probably all about getting that cash for selling the spectrum.

But Portsmouth and Ironton are in the coverage areas of WKAS/Ashland and WVPB/Huntington. While not licensed to Ohio specifically, Portsmouth and Ironton do have city-grade access to two PBS stations.

 

[Gregg.]

Where did you hear that? Can you provide a source? Because nothing in either WHYY, Inc.'s or Penn State's announcements stated that they were going to simulcast on either radio or TV. And in case you forgot, Philadelphia/Wilmington and State College/Altoona/Johnstown are very distinct markets.

The WHYY-TV simulcast in southern Delaware (via WDPB in Seaford) is irrelevant to this discussion.


Again, you're making an assumption. All we know from the official statement is that WNET/Public Media NJ will not be renewing the contract with the NJPBA when it expires on June 30.

Will the four stations go dark after that? No one knows. A lot can happen between now and then, but as of this writing "then" is just 11 weeks away. If anything, the outgoing gubernatorial administration and previous state legislature chose to push it off for the next governor/legislative session to deal with. Now, they're on the clock.

One thing we know for certain, and on which we can all agree, is that the state-controlled New Jersey Network TV system isn't being revived.


Then, why are you even commenting?

Some friendly advice: Stop creating speculation without proof to support your claim.

Friendly advice? Hmm, I've had friendlier advice.

Here is the latest news I've seen.

Reverse card: Penn State trustees agree to transfer WPSU to WHYY

The university will no longer be required to pay a $17.6 million subsidy to WHYY as financial supporters are expected to step up to save the central Pennsylvania station.

whyy.org

The article says the Penn State board rejected the September proposal but unanimously approved the one in October. WHYY will have to raise some funds for the takeover so money will be tight. I admit, it doesn't say the two will simulcast. But let's meet back here in a year to see whether WPSU is pretty much running the WHYY schedule. I would guess to save a few bucks, the tech operations will be at WHYY. If the donations were flowing in to WPSU, the university wouldn't have made the rash announcement that WPSU's future was in doubt.

And why is it wrong to note WHYY has a simulcast partner in Delaware? We shouldn't mention that?

As for NJ PBS, June 30 is 2 1/2 months away. If someone were going to rescue the NJ PBS stations, that organization is sure keeping it quiet. And if I only watch NJ PBS occasionally I shouldn't comment on it? That would leave a lot of blank pages on this website. But yes, there's still about 10 weeks left. Let's meet back here on July 1 to check on the status of Channels 23, 50, 52 and 58.

 

[Gravel Switch]

But since PBS isn't a commercial operation, redundancies don't matter. As long as the station can afford to pay the membership fee, they get to carry the programming. The more affiliates PBS has, the more money they make. Even if that means 4 stations in the same town. How those stations differentiate themselves is up to them.

Also, since all of these stations are individually owned, it's not as though the money spent on one station can be applied to another.

PBS offers a wide variety of programming, and its possible to schedule it so there is no real time duplication.

Lastly, the stations didn't need to carry PBS to qualify for federal funding. The funding is based on other things, such as staffing and local fundraising. So the stations chose to carry PBS for programming reasons.

With even some small markets having an overabundance of NPR and PBS signals, let alone larger markets, I would hope redundancies do matter when taxpayer funds are involved.

 

[TheBigA]

I would hope redundancies do matter when taxpayer funds are involved.

Reminder that taxpayer funds are no longer involved.

Also just because a station has a PBS affiliation doesn't necessarily mean that there's program duplication.

 

[IM42A]

But Portsmouth and Ironton are in the coverage areas of WKAS/Ashland and WVPB/Huntington. While not licensed to Ohio specifically, Portsmouth and Ironton do have city-grade access to two PBS stations.

Yes, that is true, but my point was that neither of these stations has any meaningful Ohio-oriented content, certainly not WKAS/KET, in KET's worldview, bordering states don't exist. PBS stations tend to be more localized by their nature (but then there's WQLN Erie, which receives probably most of its support from London, Ontario, and acknowledges that area accordingly, ditto WNED Buffalo with Toronto).

Probably the larger issue here is whether PBS stations that are received outside of their states of origin have any duty to cover those states. Historically, the answer has been "not really". Many public TV stations are parts of state networks, usually just being repeaters of the mothership, and any viewership in other states is simply a function of geography and the reach of their signals. If public TV has to cut back this kind of duplication, statewide networks may have to rethink their missions.

 

[Rollo-Smokes]

Friendly advice? Hmm, I've had friendlier advice.

Here is the latest news I've seen.

Reverse card: Penn State trustees agree to transfer WPSU to WHYY

The university will no longer be required to pay a $17.6 million subsidy to WHYY as financial supporters are expected to step up to save the central Pennsylvania station.

whyy.org

The article says the Penn State board rejected the September proposal but unanimously approved the one in October. WHYY will have to raise some funds for the takeover so money will be tight. I admit, it doesn't say the two will simulcast. But let's meet back here in a year to see whether WPSU is pretty much running the WHYY schedule. I would guess to save a few bucks, the tech operations will be at WHYY. If the donations were flowing in to WPSU, the university wouldn't have made the rash announcement that WPSU's future was in doubt.

And why is it wrong to note WHYY has a simulcast partner in Delaware? We shouldn't mention that?

As for NJ PBS, June 30 is 2 1/2 months away. If someone were going to rescue the NJ PBS stations, that organization is sure keeping it quiet. And if I only watch NJ PBS occasionally I shouldn't comment on it? That would leave a lot of blank pages on this website. But yes, there's still about 10 weeks left. Let's meet back here on July 1 to check on the status of Channels 23, 50, 52 and 58.

Lots of empty calories in that post. And side-stepping and doubling-down, and never did you address my original point. But that's cool.

 

[Gravel Switch]

Reminder that taxpayer funds are no longer involved.

Also just because a station has a PBS affiliation doesn't necessarily mean that there's program duplication.

Exactly, in terms of taxpayer funds. As an example, years ago I lived in one of those smaller markets that had city-grade access to three (!) -- count'em -- three separate 50kw NPR affiliates, yet all duplicating programming. That's the definition of profligate.

 

[TheBigA]

I lived in one of those smaller markets that had city-grade access to three (!) -- count'em -- three separate 50kw NPR affiliates, yet all duplicating programming. That's the definition of profligate.

Not at all. We have discussions here all the time about four or more stations in a market playing the same songs. It's called competition.

These stations aren't like K-Love, where they all play the same programming at the same time. They each have things that set them apart. That's how they all attract listener donations. Seattle is a great example. KUOW offered to buy the competing NPR station KPLU. Instead the KPLU listeners formed a non-profit, raised millions of dollars, and outbid KUOW in order to preserve the uniqueness of that station.

BTW there's no way for individually owned NPR stations to duplicate all programming. NPR doesn't produce enough programming to fill a 24/7 schedule.

The way to prevent program duplication is to have all the stations owed by one company, and eliminate competition. That's how SiriusXM operates. No duplication among all the channels because there is no competition.

 

[Gravel Switch]

Not at all. We have discussions here all the time about four or more stations in a market playing the same songs. It's called competition.

These stations aren't like K-Love, where they all play the same programming at the same time. They each have things that set them apart. That's how they all attract listener donations. Seattle is a great example. KUOW offered to buy the competing NPR station KPLU. Instead the KPLU listeners formed a non-profit, raised millions of dollars, and outbid KUOW in order to preserve the uniqueness of that station.

BTW there's no way for individually owned NPR stations to duplicate all programming. NPR doesn't produce enough programming to fill a 24/7 schedule.

The way to prevent program duplication is to have all the stations owed by one company, and eliminate competition. That's how SiriusXM operates. No duplication among all the channels because there is no competition.

If four or more commercial stations in a market are playing the same songs, that's an entirely different situation as they're profit-making enterprises. That is, taxpayer funding wasn't involved.

On any given morning, the market I reside in has full-blown OTA access to three stations running Morning Edition and All Things Considered. Now that these stations are not receiving taxpayer funds, it's now up to the listeners to support on their own. And that's perfectly fine. I regularly support classical KVOD-FM with my donations, but I don't expect my neighbor to help fund my listening preferences via his taxpayer funds. And why should he/she be expected to, anyway?

Again, just because something has been funded for ~ 50 years doesn't automatically mean it should be funded in perpetuity. Times and needs and technology change -- otherwise we'd all still be driving Model T's.

 

[TheBigA]

If four or more commercial stations in a market are playing the same songs, that's an entirely different situation as they're profit-making enterprises. That is, taxpayer funding wasn't involved.

When there was taxpayer funding, it only covered less than 10% of the expenses. The rest came from local listeners, businesses, or other grants.

In order to raise local money, you need to provide something the people want.

On any given morning, the market I reside in has full-blown OTA access to three stations running Morning Edition and All Things Considered.

Both of those programs are built with local cutaways where the stations each do their own unique local reporting. So that makes them different.

Again, just because something has been funded for ~ 50 years doesn't automatically mean it should be funded in perpetuity. Times and needs and technology change -- otherwise we'd all still be driving Model T's.

Hasn't this issue been decided?

Getting back to the OP, the viewers of WSRE want their PBS back.

WSRE Foundation won't go down quietly. Board hires lawyer to navigate future of station

The WSRE-TV Foundation wants a chance to make up the budget shortfall facing the public broadcasting station after PSC voted to end PBS affiliation.

www.yahoo.com

It's very similar to the situation in Arkansas, where the state announced it was canceling its PBS affiliation, and the viewers protested.

Friends of Arkansas PBS announce launch of 'PBS Dues Fund' | What to know

Friends of Arkansas PBS has announced the launch of a new fund to help with the future of PBS programming across the state. Days ago, the group, which was formed back in February, said that they are ...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Gravel Switch]

So if taxpayer funding "only covered less than 10% of the expenses," then why all the caterwauling from PBS/NPR/the stations (and some on this board)?

"The rest came from local listeners, businesses, or other grants." Perfect, and if the local listeners, businesses, or other grants find value in the programming, they can step up to the plate like many already have (according to news reports).

If some stations fall by the wayside because they can't deal with losing the "less than 10% of the expenses," sounds like they were already living on the edge anyway amongst the plethora of public stations.

 

[TheBigA]

So if taxpayer funding "only covered less than 10% of the expenses," then why all the caterwauling from PBS/NPR/the stations (and some on this board)?

If someone cut your pay by 10%, wouldn't you complain?

This was money that had already been appropriated, therefore already budgeted and spent. Then it was clawed back for no real reason.

If some stations fall by the wayside because they can't deal with losing the "less than 10% of the expenses," sounds like they were already living on the edge
anyway amongst the plethora of public stations.

It depends. Clearly there's a dispute in the case of WSRE, because the foundation has $5 million in its coffers and it's suing the station owner.

What we're seeing is some of it's political. Some stations in red states want to cancel PBS. Meanwhile the station viewers who paid their membership dues in order to watch PBS claim a bait & switch.

 

[esdx]

Did Bankruptcy Hour have to put down a big deposit before they'd get airtime?

It's basically a "call-in" legal show hosted by a bankruptcy law firm. It even ran in Panama City during the late night hours.
Here's a 2005 episode. Interesting production values with their "virtual set" way back then...

Back to WSRE. If the foundation wants a PBS affiliate on the air, maybe they could partner with the University of West Florida. They already run the NPR station for the area (WUWF) and I believe run a TV channel that's on Cox Cable. WPAN is probably their best bet in leasing them a channel slot.

And down the line, if PSC fails in running WSRE as an educational independent, they may cash it out to UWF, or even FSU to relay WFSU/WFSG.