Starting a Small Radio Station?

[EMR_for_all]

Looks like the idea has kinda been killed, but one guy got a low power FM license and was talking about 10 or 30 watt transmitter. Can you get anything worthwhile using a ~70ft antenna using a site about as high as anything in the surrounding 20+ miles?

Apparently the 60 dbu can only be max 3.5 miles or so, if I'm reading it correctly, using a LP FM license? How difficult and expensive is it to get a higher power license? Any transmitter or other suggestions, perhaps an older used transmitter might be a good idea

Thoughts and suggestions? Thought it might be interesting for others too, to consider, even if nobody does it here. And I'm curious after reading up on it a bit

 

[Radio Bob]

If you were assigned a Low Power FM license you are not eligible to get a full power license unless you swear to give up the LPFM license on your full power application.

 

[EMR_for_all]

If you were assigned a Low Power FM license you are not eligible to get a full power license unless you swear to give up the LPFM license on your full power application.

Good to know. I don't think giving up the license should be a problem.

A guy has proposed a station broadcasting religious programming attained via subscription. Trying to figure out if it'd go far enough to be worthwhile. Or what it might take to make it go far enough, because if an LP FM license only allows 60 dbu out to 5.6 km the good reception wouldn't even get to town

Maybe get an older used but higher power transmitter or something.

 

[bigdonho]

it's not the power of the transmitter. It is what power the FCC has licensed the station. The upper limit for LPFMs is 100 W. You might speak with a consultant to see what power and height you can get. Coverage also depends on a number of thing like terrain, closest co-channel station and first adjacencies. I know of a number of LPFMs that are listenable well beyond the 5.6 km and others that don't get out nearly that far with the same power.

 

[PTBoardOp93]

A brief lesson in how the FM band is allocated:

The Local Community Radio Act of 2010 created an LPFM station class, which is limited to 100 Watts radiated power by law. It sounds like this is what you are talking about your friend receiving. LPFMs must be owned by non-profit organizations, and there is a An LPFM license cannot be upgraded to any other station class. I also do not think it can legally provide a subscription service, because of the non-commercial limitations of the LCRA.

Full power FM stations (anything higher than 100 watts) are licensed pursuant to the Communications Act of 1934, as amended. In general, all of the licenses that are available under current rules are already spoken for. Meaning that if you wanted to put a station on the air in Minneapolis, you would have to buy an existing station; there are no more available. In some of the rural parts of the country, think western Kansas, licenses could be available, but the limited population makes more stations commercially non-viable.

The FCC conducts auctions occasionally for full power FM licenses. Often the permits being auctioned are supposed to serve those rural portions of the country in Kansas, Oklahoma and the Dakotas.

 

[EMR_for_all]

A brief lesson in how the FM band is allocated:

The Local Community Radio Act of 2010 created an LPFM station class, which is limited to 100 Watts radiated power by law. It sounds like this is what you are talking about your friend receiving. LPFMs must be owned by non-profit organizations, and there is a An LPFM license cannot be upgraded to any other station class. I also do not think it can legally provide a subscription service, because of the non-commercial limitations of the LCRA.

Full power FM stations (anything higher than 100 watts) are licensed pursuant to the Communications Act of 1934, as amended. In general, all of the licenses that are available under current rules are already spoken for. Meaning that if you wanted to put a station on the air in Minneapolis, you would have to buy an existing station; there are no more available. In some of the rural parts of the country, think western Kansas, licenses could be available, but the limited population makes more stations commercially non-viable.

The FCC conducts auctions occasionally for full power FM licenses. Often the permits being auctioned are supposed to serve those rural portions of the country in Kansas, Oklahoma and the Dakotas.

OK well that explains a lot of things. I wondered why he licensed it to a non profit, i guess that's the reason, it has to be. And religious institutions should be able to license these as they are generally non profits

It's rural here, but not W Kansas rural imo. Certainly the dial isn't as full as say Dallas so maybe something is available. Im not sure if there's much point, if it only goes , say, 5 miles there's not many people but it sounds like a longer range license might be expensive and possibly difficult to get.

The subscription is for the programming, not selling the subscriptions. It's kind of a turnkey deal, apparently, transmitter antenna and you can get programming by subscription

 

[b-turner]

I'm not clear what you mean by 'by subsscription'. If they are EWTN, or some religious network, they are affiliates and get programming free and air it free of charge.

Non-commercial or commercial, the rare auctions and filing windows really require a good engineering firm to prove the station will work. You would do well to have someone who has been through an auction or two. My boss used our communications attorney. Then you need engineers to build the new station.

Buying an existing station may be less costly and operational logistics figured out.

An LPFM is not always cheap. Do you have to erect a tower? Tower rent is not cheap and you may be on the hook for iniial studies and certain build-out requirements. You must use a transmitter approved by the FCC for LPFM.

And you must know the rules. As boring as that is, you have to know them. Start here for LPFM: REC Networks | REC Networks

 

[EMR_for_all]

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I'm not clear what you mean by 'by subsscription'. If they are EWTN, or some religious network, they are affiliates and get programming free and air it free of charge.

Non-commercial or commercial, the rare auctions and filing windows really require a good engineering firm to prove the station will work. You would do well to have someone who has been through an auction or two. My boss used our communications attorney. Then you need engineers to build the new station.

Buying an existing station may be less costly and operational logistics figured out.

An LPFM is not always cheap. Do you have to erect a tower? Tower rent is not cheap and you may be on the hook for iniial studies and certain build-out requirements. You must use a transmitter approved by the FCC for LPFM.

And you must know the rules. As boring as that is, you have to know them. Start here for LPFM: REC Networks | REC Networks

I think the guy has already done an
LP FM radio station before so hopefully knows the rules fairly well. I looked at the buy and sell board and I really dont think buying a station is in anyone's budget absent a miracle at this time. The numbers I'm hearing aren't bad, though, it doesn't sound like he's out of line if he solicits donations.

Yes I ran across the list of approved transmitters for LP FM looking at the Engineering board yesterday. It looks like the stuff is bought new though so im not too concerned.

Currently talking about roughly 70' tower having an extension? HAAT might be 150' or more, kind of a small ridge behind the next road over though, and need to get actual proposed tower site elevation. Cell phone towers or something in the area can you use those for FM

 

[DelmarvaDX]

Regarding the "subscriptions", maybe you are talking about about selling the airtime to various groups? What has often been called "dollar-a-holler". There was a local station that did that for many years; some programs were only 15 minutes, some were just a minute or two. That was a daytime-only AM with and FM translator which was eventually donated to Christian non-profit which plays Southern Gospel. Under its previous version it seemed to be a real shoestring operation, possibly just one guy handling most of the work.

 

[b-turner]

I believe he was talking about LPFM stations. I could be wrong.

 

[davideduardo]

I believe he was talking about LPFM stations. I could be wrong.

Yep, I believe that too. But there was not a clear understanding of the differences between LPFMs, translators and different classes of fully licensed FMs. I think the posters here have helped understand that.

 

[EMR_for_all]

Apparently the programming is via subscription.

 

[b-turner]

So, somebody like Wstwood One has them on a monhly payment contract? What is the programming? This is the first time I have ever heard the word subscription used for radio programming.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

this almost sounds like an unlicensed station because the terminology being used comes across, no offense, like someone who knows enough to be dangerous and thinks they know buzz words.

Why is an LPFM going to put up a 150 footer or extend a 70 footer to 150 and de rate below 100 watts?

And "Talking about a 10 or 30 watt transmitter?" If you have a 70 foot tower, you need alot more then 10 watts, unless you put up a 12 bay.

If you have an LPFM license your application stated what your transmitter power output is

In 23 yearsq of radio, ive never heard of subscription used in the way of programming

 

[EMR_for_all]

---

this almost sounds like an unlicensed station because the terminology being used comes across, no offense, like someone who knows enough to be dangerous and thinks they know buzz words.

Why is an LPFM going to put up a 150 footer or extend a 70 footer to 150 and de rate below 100 watts?

And "Talking about a 10 or 30 watt transmitter?" If you have a 70 foot tower, you need alot more then 10 watts, unless you put up a 12 bay.

If you have an LPFM license your application stated what your transmitter power output is

In 23 yearsq of radio, ive never heard of subscription used in the way of programming

If you read my posts I'm asking basic stuff to get answers. Never claimed to know all this. Instead of getting all amazed and offended maybe you could make recommendations i.e. tower height more transmitter power etc.

Jusy got off the phone with someone involved it apparently is the full 100 watts. One Youtube video said up to about 100m every meter counts, do you disagree? i'd think higher is better, 70' or so + on a hill, If that's not the case I'd like to know, easier if you dont have to

My understanding is they're planning on getting religious programming via subscription. But I haven't talked to the guy who got the license yet and I'm not that worried about it. Obviously getting set up to have Dj'S and in studio stuff adds a lot of complexity, presumably microphones, sound engineering etc

 

[b-turner]

The word 'susscription' in radio is about like saying Boeing Jet to describe a ship going port to port. Subscription to a religious programming service? If it is ministries, no charge to do a share and you pick those you want by dealing direct. You elude to studios. Almost always stations are voice tracked. Pretty much a computer and microphone with a mixer is fine. You do realize there are all sorts of classes of radio stations: LPFM maximum 100 watts at 30 meters HAAT

 

[EMR_for_all]

The word 'susscription' in radio is about like saying Boeing Jet to describe a ship going port to port. Subscription to a religious programming service? If it is ministries, no charge to do a share and you pick those you want by dealing direct. You elude to studios. Almost always stations are voice tracked. Pretty much a computer and microphone with a mixer is fine. You do realize there are all sorts of classes of radio stations: LPFM maximum 100 watts at 30 meters HAAT

Thanks for the info, the non profit has land that accoriding to caltopo.com would be about 150 ft higher give or take than a lot of the surrounding community if you put a roughly 70' tower on it. I suppose shorter towers are less expensive though if needed due to restrictions.

Last week I thought licenses just involved paperwork and a fee or something like that, had no idea it's this complicated. If there's something .
more powerful than LP FM that doesn't cost too much we'd be interested. Buying a station is probably more than anyone is considering

If we dont need to put foam on the walls, buy a mixing board etc for sound might not be too bad. Good to know on the ministry programming I looked at KHCB out of Houston, they have lots of stuff, really didn't know if the ministry paid for itself by charging radio fees or not, i guess you have to pay per song though?. I'll check on the programming I've mostly been concentrating on getting the power up to reach enough people, of course, suggestions welcome in general

 

[b-turner]

I managed a station in Houston for over 25 years. I know the folks at KHCB. They'd be happy to have you carry their programming. You can't do that on a LPFM since rules prohibit that but it's okay on other classes of stations. Talk to a broker about buying a station but you will need to show them you have the cash or investors. Chances are very good you will be forced to buy versus waiting for a filing window only to find everything is taken. Shorter towers are cheaper.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Thanks for the info, the non profit has land that accoriding to caltopo.com would be about 150 ft higher give or take than a lot of the surrounding community if you put a roughly 70' tower on it. I suppose shorter towers are less expensive though if needed due to restrictions.

Last week I thought licenses just involved paperwork and a fee or something like that, had no idea it's this complicated. If there's something .
more powerful than LP FM that doesn't cost too much we'd be interested. Buying a station is probably more than anyone is considering

If we dont need to put foam on the walls, buy a mixing board etc for sound might not be too bad. Good to know on the ministry programming I looked at KHCB out of Houston, they have lots of stuff, really didn't know if the ministry paid for itself by charging radio fees or not, i guess you have to pay per song though?. I'll check on the programming I've mostly been concentrating on getting the power up to reach enough people, of course, suggestions welcome in general

what you’re proposing a pirate as it stands, because next up from lpfm is a non commercial station of 100 watts or more and there’s no window for that to apply and for commercial stations? that’s usually a minimum equivalent of 6000 watts.

whatever you’re going to do is going to be nowhere near as cheap as you think and have more regulations than you could imagine.

I was polite in what i said about my assumptions of your content/comments/posts.

 

[EMR_for_all]

what you’re proposing a pirate as it stands, because next up from lpfm is a non commercial station of 100 watts or more and there’s no window for that to apply and for commercial stations? that’s usually a minimum equivalent of 6000 watts.

whatever you’re going to do is going to be nowhere near as cheap as you think and have more regulations than you could imagine.

I was polite in what i said about my assumptions of your content/comments/posts.

You seem to be getting mad at me for not knowing this stuff, but I thought it was pretty obvious I didn't know this stuff, and the whole point of the thread is me trying to figure it out by asking.

I do not see how you can accuse me of piracy. I am talking about 100 watts on an LP FM license and getting it high to improve transmission. If we can get a license for more power yes there's probably intetest, but idk that anyone is interested in buying an existing one to get a full power license (one local commercial station is under 2k watts, so not sure what 6k is youre referring to. )

Yes, I know there's a lot to this, that's why I'm asking. I dont really see the reason you are getting mad at me for asking, how am i supposed to knowthis stuff. My comments have been polite, as well (perhaps too.polite)