AM 1110 Off The Air?

[Gregg.]

Yes, they must maintain licensed power and minimum hours of service. But they can apply to reduce the class of their license, which is routinely granted.

WBT could probably diplex somewhere with 50 kW days and 500 W nights. Maybe 1 kW nights. All non-directional. Hard to say precisely without the fancy software.

That's right. WBT is currently 50,000 watts non-directional by day. It only uses one tower in the daytime. So as PT Board Op says, it could ask the FCC to maintain 50 kW by day and reduce power at night to whatever avoids interference to KFAB Omaha, the other Class A station on 1110 AM.

It currently uses a three-tower array after sunset to protect KFAB while staying at 50 kW. So dropping the nighttime power while switching to a non-directional antenna would allow it to sell the current tower location. Then it could move to a single tower and share it with another AM station in the Charlotte market.

 

[Josh Owens]

I think that may be overstated. Do radio station owners primarily care about the market their stations are operating in? Sure.

But many of their advertisers have locations beyond the counties that make up the Charlotte metro. I think the banks, supermarkets, restaurant chains, tourist attractions and other advertisers like having WBT selling their product or services to folks in communities that tune in beyond the borders of the metro area designated by Nielsen.

I believe you're right there.

BTW, I was going across the George Washington Bridge last night and hit the scan button on my car radio. There was 1110 WBT with its soft instrumental music, coming in on my car's radio, 1,000 miles to the northeast. Maybe Urban One should learn from Audacy. That company has kept nearly all the AM news and news-talk stations it owns on the air, continuing to simulcast the FM stations that are now the primary destinations for listeners. WFAN, WINS, WBBM, WSCR, KCBS. There must be more than 20 powerful AM stations that Audacy is still simulcasting even after giving them an FM simulcast.

Yes, they should definitely reconsider and keep it on, but they more than likely, won't do either of them.

 

[davideduardo]

But many of their advertisers have locations beyond the counties that make up the Charlotte metro. I think the banks, supermarkets, restaurant chains, tourist attractions and other advertisers like having WBT selling their product or services to folks in communities that tune in beyond the borders of the metro area designated by Nielsen.

Nearly all the big advertisers use agencies. They buy rated markets that they can quantify. They don’t buy rural areas that are not measured.

 

[PTBoardOp93]

But many of their advertisers have locations beyond the counties that make up the Charlotte metro. I think the banks, supermarkets, restaurant chains, tourist attractions and other advertisers like having WBT selling their product or services to folks in communities that tune in beyond the borders of the metro area designated by Nielsen.

With occasional exceptions, none of those categories of business are advertising on the radio, especially at night. That's one of the existential crises in the industry ... not enough big brand advertisers.

But for argument, let's say Harris-Teeter is advertising on radio. Harris-Teeter is a supermarket owned by Kroger, which is based in Cincinnati. Chances are real high that the twenty-something year old ad buyer based in Cincy has never been to Charlotte, and would have no reason to know anything about its coverage beyond Charlotte. They only see the ratings info and the prices the radio station expects.

With so many companies being consolidated, it is rare these days that an ad buyer is actually in the market they are buying, so they only know what the numbers say.

A station appearing in nearby markets ratings is extremely rare these days, so the measurements that appear on a buyer's desk wouldn't indicate WBT had listening beyond Charlotte, thus it cannot be something "advertisers like."

BTW, unrelated to Charlotte... but Kroger cutting all its radio advertising was one of the things that really hurt one of my former employers. Kroger went from a $5000 a month account to $0 overnight.

 

[IM42A]

Yes, they must maintain licensed power and minimum hours of service. But they can apply to reduce the class of their license, which is routinely granted.

WBT could probably diplex somewhere with 50 kW days and 500 W nights. Maybe 1 kW nights. All non-directional. Hard to say precisely without the fancy software.

Another dumb question, if they "reduce the class of their license", does that allow them to reduce their power as well?

 

[IM42A]

That's right. WBT is currently 50,000 watts non-directional by day. It only uses one tower in the daytime. So as PT Board Op says, it could ask the FCC to maintain 50 kW by day and reduce power at night to whatever avoids interference to KFAB Omaha, the other Class A station on 1110 AM.

It currently uses a three-tower array after sunset to protect KFAB while staying at 50 kW. So dropping the nighttime power while switching to a non-directional antenna would allow it to sell the current tower location. Then it could move to a single tower and share it with another AM station in the Charlotte market.

That's kind of what I was getting at. I was trying to find a way for them to get rid of the existing property and still transmit on 1110 AM. If a single tower could pull that off at 50 kW, they could do it.

 

[luperm]

That's kind of what I was getting at. I was trying to find a way for them to get rid of the existing property and still transmit on 1110 AM. If a single tower could pull that off at 50 kW, they could do it.

But, why? If RO is not getting the desired outcome from the existing facility, what would they do with a technically inferior one? Do you think revenue would magically appear? They're better off focusing their efforts on initiatives that have more revenue potential. I'm sure that if someone had the wherewithal to do what you describe, they'd be in discussions with Radio One to acquire the license right now. There is no incentive to make material investments in obsolete AM facilities.

 

[secondchoice]

The petition has over 500 signatures so far. Next milestone to reach will be 1,000.

Is there a goal for the number of signatures needed?

If you could get at least 5 or 10% of the total market population on the petition, then you could create some PR headaches with the local media.

But Unban One won't care as long as they get the check for their part of the sale. They want 1110 to go away unless they get some serious cash (at least several months of their Charlotte cluster's billing) from selling 1110 license. One less competitor for them.

 

[kevtronics]

Another dumb question, if they "reduce the class of their license", does that allow them to reduce their power as well?

When 1510 WMEX in the Boston area lost their transmitter site, they downgraded from a 50 kW full-time Class B station to a 10 kW daytime / 2 kW critical hours / 100W nighttime Class D station.

 

[Josh Owens]

BTW, unrelated to Charlotte... but Kroger cutting all its radio advertising was one of the things that really hurt one of my former employers. Kroger went from a $5000 a month account to $0 overnight.

I knew a small station down south, which lost their biggest account (to use current terms), they said, because of a bumbling DJ. I personally believe that was the first nail in that station's coffin.

 

[IM42A]

But, why? If RO is not getting the desired outcome from the existing facility, what would they do with a technically inferior one? Do you think revenue would magically appear? They're better off focusing their efforts on initiatives that have more revenue potential. I'm sure that if someone had the wherewithal to do what you describe, they'd be in discussions with Radio One to acquire the license right now. There is no incentive to make material investments in obsolete AM facilities.

I was just thinking in terms of being able to reach their core market (for which they really don't need 50 kW), and being able to adapt so as not to need that huge tower array, enabling them to sell the property but keep broadcasting on 1110. As one poster noted upthread, though, they could run 50 kW during the day from a single tower, and run lower power at night from the same tower to protect other stations on 1110.

 

[luperm]

I was just thinking in terms of being able to reach their core market (for which they really don't need 50 kW), and being able to adapt so as not to need that huge tower array, enabling them to sell the property but keep broadcasting on 1110. As one poster noted upthread, though, they could run 50 kW during the day from a single tower, and run lower power at night from the same tower to protect other stations on 1110.

It still does not matter. Relevant listeners (ones who can attract advertisers) are obtaining content elsewhere. Why is that hard for people to understand?

 

[seattlesarchiebunker]

It still does not matter. Relevant listeners (ones who can attract advertisers) are obtaining content elsewhere. Why is that hard for people to understand?

The other thing people don’t quite understand is nighttime ratings. Even if the station cleans up in the overall ratings, chances are very good nobody really cares that much about the ratings from about 6pm-6am. Listenership plummets in most places after the drive home. This is why having a nighttime jock live is less popular, and an overnight jock (the way so many on these boards, myself included, cut their teeth on-air) is now either unheard of or perhaps one per market for EAS PEP duties.

So long as WBT-AM can cover most of its current metro coverage area during most of that 6am-6pm ratings period, it has just as good of a chance of making ratings as it would with its current transmission site.

If they went 50kW days/0.5kW nights ND, they could sell that valuable property, offer the Blaw-Knox to a broadcasting museum or a ham group, diplex (or even build) a single tower on far less land, and still according to how stations are rated will do just as well.

You might see some difficulty come winter months when they won’t run 50kW until around 7am and drop to night power around 5pm…you’ll lose 2 hours daily tops on each end of the “money” ratings.

Now, if the station isn’t crushing it ratings-wise currently… why would you worry about losing a few dozen hours of decent advertising revenue in a year for downgrading a transmission site, when by downgrading, you brought in millions up front?

And all of this is assuming WBT-AM will one day have a new format that people will bother to listen to. Given the precarious nature of AM radio and its downward spiral, along with its almost universal non-use by people under 35 or so, any AM station going alone without rebroadcasting on FM will be difficult…

 

[Mike Sheridan]

And all of this is assuming WBT-AM will one day have a new format that people will bother to listen to. Given the precarious nature of AM radio and its downward spiral, along with its almost universal non-use by people under 35 or so, any AM station going alone without rebroadcasting on FM will be difficult…

The identity and format have moved to FM. It's just difficult for many of us old timers to accept. The nighttime 50 KW signal was more dominant north and south than the signals from omnidirectional WSM and WSB. Those signals did well in all directions but in South Florida WBT came in like it was in your backyard. It must have been designed under CBS ownership to provide coverage for the old line network programming. KFAB covered gaps in the west coast, WBT covered the east coast and KMOX 1120 covered middle USA.

I would say that most people under 50 IF they listen to radio at all, are FM listeners not AM listeners.

I don't have hard figures to bak this up but I believe the cost of electricity to rum an FM station with a ERP of 100 KW using a FM transmitter of 20 KW to 30 KW and the cost of running a modern AM transmitter are almost eqtal. It's more likely the real estate involved.

Lastly as I've said before I doubt Urban One wants to invite any AM competition. Up until the '80's WBT had very limited competition in Charlotte. The big 4 AM stations were WBT, WAYS, WSOC and WAME. WAME was the first to fall, followed by WSOC, and WAYS. WBT was the last ratings competitive station to fall. It was a very good run.

A radio guy who I respect summed it up, he said "After all it is 100 year old technology". I keep thinking what a different world it was 100 years ago. Just think about it.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

If they went 50kW days/0.5kW nights ND, they could sell that valuable property, offer the Blaw-Knox to a broadcasting museum or a ham group, diplex (or even build) a single tower on far less land, and still according to how stations are rated will do just as well.

You might see some difficulty come winter months when they won’t run 50kW until around 7am and drop to night power around 5pm…you’ll lose 2 hours daily tops on each end of the “money” ratings.

It would take more

It must have been designed under CBS ownership to provide coverage for the old line network programming. KFAB covered gaps in the west coast, WBT covered the east coast and KMOX 1120 covered middle USA.

Not exactly

KFAB was originally on 770 In Lincoln and had to divide/share/synch night operation with WBBM.. they both moved to 780 in 1942
WBT went on 1110 in 1941, KFAB moved to 1110 in 1944 and WJAG went from 1090 to 780, paid for by KFAB
KFAB going to 1110 necessitated WBT going directional at night
(I think i got that straight)

 

[MediaMan]

As mentioned previously, WBT was a single tower clear channel same as WSB and WSM albeit on a less desirable frequency for daytime coverage. CBS owned WBBM in Chicago had to share time with KFAB which meant not only were WBBM on the same frequency, WBBM had to go silent for KFAB to broadcast.

In order to give WBBM around the clock 50 kw non directional Class A Clear Channel status, CBS had to find KFAB a different frequency. KFAB was moved to same frequency as WBT but both stations had to operate at night with deep nulls to each other. WBT lost significant nighttime sky wave coverage to the southwest, west and northwest of Charlotte and the nighttime ground wave severely hampered by the poor ground conductivity which meant the 50 kW ,now Class B Clear Channel, couldn’t be heard in Gastonia, largest of suburban cities. (Bs had two stations across USA while Class As had just one. The As were all non directional unless they requested DA to not waste signal over the ocean as did WWL on 870 at New Orleans and WBZ on 1030 in Boston.)

Soon after castrating WBT, CBS sold WBT. WBT was successful well into the future for many reasons not the least of which it was well programmed and operated. However its history of success can’t discount the fact there was really no other AM in the market with comparable coverage; it had a strong TV companion; and one of the first full market coverage FMs using the mountain top TV tower site for their transmitter location.

The few other Charlotte area Class C FMs except for WSOC were operating in smaller towns outside Charlotte on much shorter towers and lower wattage. The other big signal FM in Charlotte had to share the same frequency with a 100 kW on same 104.7 in Columbia, SC probably the worst overlap of two 100 kW FMs in USA.

WSB in Atlanta had many of these same factors going in its favor with a couple more great advantages to their credit; the same ownership as the market’s daily newspaper and a better frequency without directional at night.

Had it not been for these factors, WBT-AM’s long run of success would not have lasted a century.

 

[gr8oldies]

It still does not matter. Relevant listeners (ones who can attract advertisers) are obtaining content elsewhere. Why is that hard for people to understand?

WBT's programming is on FM, period. The audience that was on the AM is on the FM. If there was something Urban One could have put on the frequency that would be more profitable than selling the land, it would already be there

 

[gr8oldies]

With occasional exceptions, none of those categories of business are advertising on the radio, especially at night. That's one of the existential crises in the industry ... not enough big brand advertisers.

But for argument, let's say Harris-Teeter is advertising on radio. Harris-Teeter is a supermarket owned by Kroger, which is based in Cincinnati. Chances are real high that the twenty-something year old ad buyer based in Cincy has never been to Charlotte, and would have no reason to know anything about its coverage beyond Charlotte. They only see the ratings info and the prices the radio station expects.

With so many companies being consolidated, it is rare these days that an ad buyer is actually in the market they are buying, so they only know what the numbers say.

A station appearing in nearby markets ratings is extremely rare these days, so the measurements that appear on a buyer's desk wouldn't indicate WBT had listening beyond Charlotte, thus it cannot be something "advertisers like."

BTW, unrelated to Charlotte... but Kroger cutting all its radio advertising was one of the things that really hurt one of my former employers. Kroger went from a $5000 a month account to $0 overnight.

A 20-something ad buyer
"knows" WBT reaches the one town that Harris-Teeter store in West Podunk, NC and is going to base a buy on it? The numbers are still the numbers

 

[fybush]

KFAB was originally on 770 In Lincoln and had to divide/share/synch night operation with WBBM.. they both moved to 780 in 1942
WBT went on 1110 in 1941, KFAB moved to 1110 in 1944 and WJAG went from 1090 to 780, paid for by KFAB
KFAB going to 1110 necessitated WBT going directional at night
(I think i got that straight)

Pretty close!

All of the NARBA channel shifts happened on the same day, 3/29/1941, including WBBM and KFAB going from 770 to 780.

KFAB upgraded in stages, slowed down by the war. It went from 780 to 1110 in late 1944, but it was 1947 before they were able to get a full 50 kW DA-N facility built.

WJAG indeed moved to 780 at the same time KFAB went to 1110. It had been a daytimer on WBAL's clear channel, 1060 pre-NARBA, 1090 after.

As best I can tell from a quick look at the history cards, WBT didn't get fully licensed for DA-N operation until 1951, though it had applied as early as 1946 for a synchronous booster at night in Shelby to fill in its eventual nighttime null. So there may have been a few years in there when WBT and KFAB were creating mutual interference at night. Since they were both controlled by CBS and nobody else was on 1110 at night, there was nobody to complain about it.

I'm sure some quality time on David's site would bring up a lot of Broadcasting Magazine articles to better fill in some of the details about this very interesting experiment. It's one of several attempts that were made in the 30s and 40s to use synchronous operation for wide-area AM coverage back when that mattered.

(WBAL, WTIC and WJZ were also involved at point with synchronized use of 760 at night, and KDKA experimented with repeaters in Nebraska early on.)

 

[101tm]

WBT's programming is on FM, period. The audience that was on the AM is on the FM. If there was something Urban One could have put on the frequency that would be more profitable than selling the land, it would already be there

That’s why it feels like this thread has long run its course and we’re going in circles. 1110 is not coming back. Not from another site. It’s dead.