WWOW 1360/Conneaut off air

[schmave]

Just got back from visiting the in-laws in Conneaut this weekend and 1360 AM was off the air the entire time we were in town (Friday to today). I think I barely heard their translator at 102.9 FM in the city itself (it transmits from between Conneaut and Erie), and their stream is going full-bore right now, so the station isn't gone completely.
Anybody have any insight on what's going on with the AM signal? Hadn't been in Conneaut since December before this weekend so for all I know, the transmitter could have been down for some time.

 

[John Gallagher]

I haven't talked to the owner Matt Jarvi since last summer but I had been noticing the AM side has been off for some time. God bless him for continuing to run the operation. Sports sponsorships and some local advertising seem to keep things running. I hope everything is OK with Matt.

From 2012-2015, I voicetracked afternoons on WWOW for the previous owner, Bill Shannon, who I had worked for at 4 other stations. I had been out of the radio business since 1997 in Erie and have been running my own business since 1997 full-time so it was a bit of fun to get behind a radio mic again.

 

[ted chittenden]

I haven't talked to the owner Matt Jarvi since last summer but I had been noticing the AM side has been off for some time. God bless him for continuing to run the operation. Sports sponsorships and some local advertising seem to keep things running. I hope everything is OK with Matt.

From 2012-2015, I voicetracked afternoons on WWOW for the previous owner, Bill Shannon, who I had worked for at 4 other stations. I had been out of the radio business since 1997 in Erie and have been running my own business since 1997 full-time so it was a bit of fun to get behind a radio mic again.

If WWOW has been off of the air for a long time, why is it not showing up as an STA at the FCC. For that matter, why hasn't the FCC begun asking why it's not on the air.

Oh yeah! I forgot. Somebody has to notify the Federal agency that one of its licensed stations is not currently on the air. And, of course, the agency is busy suing ABC for public interest violations that nobody has had much interest in for years...

 

[secondchoice]

Oh yeah! I forgot. Somebody has to notify the Federal agency that one of its licensed stations is not currently on the air.

It you were a competitor why would you contact the Commission? You don't have to worry about someone coming in and start running the station in a competitive manor. It kinda makes one wish they had a list of their on air sponcers. Easy sell, they already use radio.

 

[John Gallagher]

I posted earlier in the We Rocked Erie in the 20th Century page on Facebook. Bob Dyment posted -
"I just went by their antenna/tower location (which can be seen from I-90). The tower is down. Earlier this year when going by, the tower seemed to be leaning. I hope the owners are planning on replacing or repairing. They should have notified the FCC. I don't think WWOW can operate solely on their FM repeator indefinitely."

 

[secondchoice]

I posted earlier in the We Rocked Erie in the 20th Century page on Facebook. Bob Dyment posted -
"I just went by their antenna/tower location (which can be seen from I-90). The tower is down. Earlier this year when going by, the tower seemed to be leaning. I hope the owners are planning on replacing or repairing. They should have notified the FCC. I don't think WWOW can operate solely on their FM repeator indefinitely."

They could be leasing an HD 2 and using a "frequency shift box" and the average listener would not have a clue.

They really should quickly get an STA for the AM. They could use a TIS system and a whip antenna to get "legal". Not sure of the financials but a parallel feed grounded tower at their current AM site would be attractive to tenants. Cheaper to build too. You don't have to worry about the ceramic insulator at the base of the tower.

I checked their website and no mention of the translator on the first page. One would think that translator could be moved closer to town. If you use the Radio-locator vacant channel function for part 15 there are a lot of "open channels". I seriously doubt you could get FM class A coverage without a directional antenna but I bet WWOW could get a better signal in town than what they got

 

[radiofan2023]

If even half the people who complained about stations being off the air on this board instead sent in recorded proof (in person photos, not Google photos, of towers that may be either damaged or down, recordings of the signal being silent on a radio in the city of license, etc.) to the FCC, then maybe something would actually happen.

 

[schmave]

Thanks for the responses all. First thought something was amiss when we couldn't get any hint of WWOW around Painesville, then it was clearer once we hit Ashtabula County that the signal just wasn't there at all.
Their translator was barely audible within town, at least near the beaches. I don't know of another available FM frequency that would serve the city better or at all.
Will be on the lookout for updates.

 

[Santa fe]

1460 Painesville, 1000 Parma and 1330 Willougby all seem to be running on FM only.
At least Willoughby reportedly has filed a request to make its translator an LPFM to legally allow it to close the AM.
I do not know what the others are doing.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

1460 Painesville, 1000 Parma and 1330 Willougby all seem to be running on FM only.
At least Willoughby reportedly has filed a request to make its translator an LPFM to legally allow it to close the AM.
I do not know what the others are doing.

Uh, that is not how this fm translator am thing works, plus you cant convert a translator to an lpfm.. and an lpfm cant run commercials anyways

and nothings been filed for w268co

 

[secondchoice]

If even half the people who complained about stations being off the air on this board instead sent in recorded proof (in person photos, not Google photos, of towers that may be either damaged or down, recordings of the signal being silent on a radio in the city of license, etc.) to the FCC, then maybe something would actually happen.

IMHO the commission hasn't enforced the technical rules for so long except for really bad offenses that get press or other stations report that a lot of operators have the attitude to mis quote a movie line. "Rules! We don't need to obey no stinking rules".

If the FCC does recover any fines the money goes into the general fund. So the Commission "wastes" part of it's budget with no benefit to the FCC. As long as the paperwork is OK there are no violations. Nobody would dare NOT to file an STA. There is some truth to this. A very large percentage of the operators do follow the rules. I was lucky, except for taking my FCC tests I never met a FCC employee. Every station I worked for obayed the rules.

 

[Santa fe]

Uh, that is not how this fm translator am thing works, plus you cant convert a translator to an lpfm.. and an lpfm cant run commercials anyways

and nothings been filed for w268co

So can a licensee run even a 100 mw parking lot transmitter for their AM and still comply with the rules? And is anyone actually paying any attention?
1460 and 1000 are now non profit and I heard that 1330 might go that way too.
How much difference in regulations is there?
I admit to being perplexed by all this. Why didn't the FCC just give AM stations an FM channel and revoke the AM license like they have in Canada? Better use than all those 80-90 FM drop ins they allowed.

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

So can a licensee run even a 100 mw parking lot transmitter for their AM and still comply with the rules? And is anyone actually paying any attention?
1460 and 1000 are now non profit and I heard that 1330 might go that way too.
How much difference in regulations is there?
I admit to being perplexed by all this. Why didn't the FCC just give AM stations an FM channel and revoke the AM license like they have in Canada? Better use than all those 80-90 FM drop ins they allowed.

No, they cant do the 100mw parking lot transmitter and comply. it doesnt require a license.

In terms of general rules around AMs with FM transmitters, i cant recall any difference between commercial and non commercial

 

[Santa fe]

And being non profit doesn't mean you can't make any money. It just has to be spent mostly on the organization's purpose, so the owner can pay themselves a fine salary or stipend if the money is there.
One of the reasons Klove keeps buying stations is they have so much money and they are not allowed to amass a fortune without spending it on their proclaimed mission.

 

[fybush]

So can a licensee run even a 100 mw parking lot transmitter for their AM and still comply with the rules? And is anyone actually paying any attention?
1460 and 1000 are now non profit and I heard that 1330 might go that way too.
How much difference in regulations is there?
I admit to being perplexed by all this. Why didn't the FCC just give AM stations an FM channel and revoke the AM license like they have in Canada? Better use than all those 80-90 FM drop ins they allowed.

It would literally require an act of Congress.

The problem is that translators are considered a secondary service. They have no protection from being bumped off the air by a new or modified full-power licensed station.

As a secondary service, translators can be handed out for free by the FCC, and they have been over the years.

But primary services can't just be handed out for free. By law, they must be auctioned. The FCC can't change that on its own.

In order to convert a translator to be allowed to originate its own programming, the FCC would have to set up an auction system and there's no guarantee the existing translator licensee would win the auction.

If we had a functioning Congress, it's at least theoretically possible that a law could be drafted that would allow an existing AM license to simply be converted to an FM license for its translator signal, but it's not an easy legislative lift, especially as long as the NAB is stubbornly committed to the "save AM" lost cause.

 

[John Gallagher]

They could be leasing an HD 2 and using a "frequency shift box" and the average listener would not have a clue.

They really should quickly get an STA for the AM. They could use a TIS system and a whip antenna to get "legal". Not sure of the financials but a parallel feed grounded tower at their current AM site would be attractive to tenants. Cheaper to build too. You don't have to worry about the ceramic insulator at the base of the tower.

I checked their website and no mention of the translator on the first page. One would think that translator could be moved closer to town. If you use the Radio-locator vacant channel function for part 15 there are a lot of "open channels". I seriously doubt you could get FM class A coverage without a directional antenna but I bet WWOW could get a better signal in town than what they got

Their website is over 10 years old, terribly outdated and was designed by one of the previous owners, John Marra in Ohio. Another previous owner, Bill Shannon, is still listed as a contact and on the air. Bill sold WWOW to Matt Jarvi 10 years ago and is no longer involved with the station and is retired.

 

[davideduardo]

If WWOW has been off of the air for a long time, why is it not showing up as an STA at the FCC. For that matter, why hasn't the FCC begun asking why it's not on the air.

How would the FCC know it is not on the air? They do not have folks driving around checking if stations are operating. Only if the station itself, or, maybe an annoyed competitor, files with the Commission would they normally know of a station not operating.

Oh yeah! I forgot. Somebody has to notify the Federal agency that one of its licensed stations is not currently on the air.

Not just "someone"... there is a procedure for notifying the FCC about non-compliance. And the FCC is slow to react. For years there have been a myriad of pirate and illegal operations in Houston, and most have been able to survive for years without any action.

And, of course, the agency is busy suing ABC for public interest violations that nobody has had much interest in for years...

You are politicizing the actions of the FCC. Content issues are done by different people than technical issues. But you want to politicize everything. In this case, we don't know if the station was, or is, off just briefly, whether it has later notified the FCC or whether it is indeed in non-compliance.

 

[davideduardo]

And being non profit doesn't mean you can't make any money. It just has to be spent mostly on the organization's purpose, so the owner can pay themselves a fine salary or stipend if the money is there.y

Non profit entities don't have owners. They are run by a board of directors. The founder or manager can pay themselves a salary, just as your local food bank or blood drive entities do. In case you don't know, heads of donation-driven non-profits make good, competitive salaries because fund raising is very difficult.

One of the reasons Klove keeps buying stations is they have so much money and they are not allowed to amass a fortune without spending it on their proclaimed mission.

They do not have "so much money" and their financials are available to read online. They actually pay quire reasonable salaries to their management, likely because the staff is motivated by evangelism as much as by paychecks.

They can, like any non-profit, create a reserve fund for future opportunities, emergencies (like COVID) and the like. However, KLVE seems to keep a lesser reserve and continues to expand while seeking to cover 100% of the country

 

[davideduardo]

I admit to being perplexed by all this. Why didn't the FCC just give AM stations an FM channel and revoke the AM license like they have in Canada? Better use than all those 80-90 FM drop ins they allowed.

@fybush detailed the legal aspects of licensing very nicely.

However, there are some other issues you bring up. For example, unlike the US, Canada licensed stations based on each service area's ability to sustain more stations. So, when they decided AM was dying, they allowed a gradual migration to FM where most markets had available channels. Not the case here.

Mexico's congress declared AM to be dead and ordered the regulatory board to make available FM channels for the AMs to move to. They did this in part by changing the rules for second adjacent channel separation allowing hundreds of AMs, about 80% of them all, to move to FM. Only in a couple of big cities was this impossible... and in the US border zone where the second adjacent separations had to match the antiquated U.S. / Old NARBA rules.

80-90 was principally intended to allow stations to do major upgrades, like class and COL moves which ybefore had been "major changes" which allowed competing applications, In addition, they added lots of new allocations, mostly in smaller markets.And 80-90 happened in the late 80's, before FM had totally taken over and before the Internet.,

 

[Santa fe]

Non profit entities don't have owners. They are run by a board of directors. The founder or manager can pay themselves a salary, just as your local food bank or blood drive entities do. In case you don't know, heads of donation-driven non-profits make good, competitive salaries because fund raising is very difficult.

They do not have "so much money" and their financials are available to read online. They actually pay quire reasonable salaries to their management, likely because the staff is motivated by evangelism as much as by paychecks.

They can, like any non-profit, create a reserve fund for future opportunities, emergencies (like COVID) and the like. However, KLVE seems to keep a lesser reserve and continues to expand while seeking to cover 100% of the country

Legitimate nonprofits undergo strict scrutiny, but anyone can play fast and loose with a stacked board of directors, outright deceit and slick bookkeeping until or if they are caught. It's a tempting target for grifters who prey on people's good intentions. Broadcasting is not immune from these abuses. People must be careful who they give money to and how much actually goes to the avowed mission and how much for "administrative" purposes. Big charities are regularly rated by watchdog groups, but smaller ones can slip under the radar. Being wary is just being wise.