“Better Reception” re-dux—with dignity!

[hipporadio]

I was looking forward to an expanded discussion within the “Better Reception” thread on this board... I am a consumer of more than my fair share of radios; enjoy the technical aspects; and spent over an hour yesterday preparing a post – sharing ACCURATE news and PERSONAL insight with this forum in Reply#5. I now work in a vocation which maintains close associations with consumer electronics and their retailers. Unfortunately, many who pass as “a broadcaster” today have negligible inside knowledge OF and personal initiative to pursue any relationship WITH the very entity that provides the vital conduit for their product... Many seem content to complain about a lack of features and performance, but have little understanding of the multiple dynamics at play in the marketplace and even-less desire to acquire such.

On the face of my contribution, I clearly differentiated “news” from “opinion”; “industry consensus” from “personal observation”; and “first-hand” from “second-hand”. The content of my post was a “mixed bag” for the pro and con camps of opinion on “HD Radio”. It featured well-researched attributes and links; and referenced several new products which might have excited the “HD” enthusiast – had they expended the effort to follow them.

Instead [in the absence of 100% gratification], an obvious “HD Radio” enthusiast chose to engage in what has become all-too-common obfuscation and deliberate distraction. I should have taken this conduct at face value and disregarded it [along with my own humorous and agreeable supposition with Bob Savage]... Instead, I permitted the thread to descend to a point that invited the prudent intervention of an R-I moderator. I will NOT permit this to reoccur! “HD” enthusiasts need to realize the scrutiny being applied to their rationale [and conduct toward alternate opinion] by those choosing only to view the contributions here. Many have yet to form an opinion! Make no mistake about it – THEY ARE READING YOU [and me also] – and they often work in industries considered auxiliary and at times essential to our livelihood!

When I contributed “news” [NOT my personal opinion] regarding fate of the Radio Shack Accurian, and Mike Walker expressed COMPLETE SATISFACTION with his purchase – I DID NOT challenge his right to be his own best judge of its character and parse the irrelevant difference between the words he used to express such! The BA Receptor and RS Accurian are GONE... Consider them a ritualistic sacrifice to an emerging technology under passionate debate – and MOVE ON!

Going forward with my final question in Reply#5 of the moved thread... Can anyone here offer feedback on Visteon’s “HD Pulse” single-speaker/stereo output AM/FM-HD table radio? It is M.I.A. on the Visteon website, but I managed to get a user manual in .pdf elsewhere, and it looks interesting. QVC featured it for $229+shipping; but a little-known Amazon-hosted private seller has it for $149 [free s&h], and a $40 rebate is available. I like this radio’s design, but know NOTHING about its performance. Even my “sources” know little, and no retailer of known repute seems interested in selling it ??? And your observations on the newly-available radios offering HD capacity?

 

[Radioman100]

And your observations on the newly-available radios offering HD capacity?

I'm pretty impressed with the Sony.

I apparently missed the debacle yesterday, but I'm not surprised. What does surprise me is the side that constantly resorts to juvenile name calling and frequently derails legitimate HD discussion with off-topic threads about webcasting feels compelled to offer conduct advice to the "enthusiast" side.

I sure hope you guys don't live in glass houses.

 

[hipporadio]

We don’t live in glass houses [either] Radioman; but “we” [speaking for myself] would not take an informative and balanced post and place its author on par with a “notorious” Talk Radio figure with regards to the “truth” and infer that poster must also subscribe to the same “political dribble”... Introduction of a new $5500 Yamaha A/V receiver [with HD]; the FIRST multi-platform adaptable component tuner with an HD option from Onkyo; and accurate recitation of the rationale behind the removal of BA’s Receptor and RS’ Accurian from the marketplace HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP WHAT-SO-EVER to “who killed Vince Foster”. This obvious obfuscation renders the discussion USELESS, and goes well-beyond some simple contention about “webcasting”. These distractions are NOT “isolated”—nearly every contentious exchange here ends up employing them, and such is a shame!

You mentioned the new Sony HD table radio... The post that served as fuel for “the debacle” you missed yesterday did also...

...Sony’s new XDR-3HD offers realistic promise in the mass-appeal marketplace... It appears to be a good radio; but shares the same “stereo within-a-foot” design and $200+ cost that cause many to scoff.

It also included a “pat on the back” for Sangean—whom you will likely-agree made a welcome contribution to the short list of available HD radios at the retail level...

Enter Sangean—THE ONLY remaining mass-market consumer electronics marketer whose mission is to INTENTIONALLY design a RADIO with superior FM and AM performance. The HDR-1 is the all-too-familiar two-speaker smallish-amped table model; and the HDT-1 is Sangean’s first-ever stab at a home system component tuner. BOTH are well-regarded by a broader fraternity beyond the usual “HD culprits”; and likely represent the current HD state-of-the-art in their respective form-factors... Although not a fan of stereo audio presented within a foot-wide confine, I have a favorable impression of the HDR-1...

THANKS for your impressions of the Sony XDR-3HD. While it’s OBVIOUS that I am NOT an “enthusiast” of “HD Radio”; I tend to share your impressions of that receiver, and I would not blindly-discredit it merely because of its HD feature!

 

[Play Freebird]

Good post showed up yesterday on the "other" HD Radio board; a writer discusses his experience with the Visteon "Jump":

"Heres the problem - my radio can lock in AM HD signals when the ignition is in ACC, but not when the car is running (kinda defeats the purpose)." He goes on to explain that it's being powered from the cigarette lighter (not surprising for a portable radio) so maybe it's picking up noise? Another regular on that board offers helpful advice on filtering techniques: Put a scope on it, try a 100-200 microhenry coil shunted by 1 to 2 microfarad capacitor....

Well, I just hope he doesn't give up too soon. Once he gets the problem fixed and goes for a drive, he might be able to experience the thrill of AM HD for, say, half a mile -- then he will pass a noisy power line down the street and it will drop out. And the process will repeat every thirty seconds or so until he gets on the freeway. Then a thunderstorm will pass through the area and digital AM reception will be gone for an hour. Then the sun will set, and he will lose lock on his local HD station because skywave signals are spoiling the digital sidebands.

But it will be worth the effort, because this technology makes AM sound like FM!

 

[Radioman100]

We don’t live in glass houses [either] Radioman; but “we” [speaking for myself] would not take an informative and balanced post and place its author on par with a “notorious” Talk Radio figure with regards to the “truth” and infer that poster must also subscribe to the same “political dribble”... Introduction of a new $5500 Yamaha A/V receiver [with HD]; the FIRST multi-platform adaptable component tuner with an HD option from Onkyo; and accurate recitation of the rationale behind the removal of BA’s Receptor and RS’ Accurian from the marketplace HAVE NO RELATIONSHIP WHAT-SO-EVER to “who killed Vince Foster”. This obvious obfuscation renders the discussion USELESS, and goes well-beyond some simple contention about “webcasting”. These distractions are NOT “isolated”—nearly every contentious exchange here ends up employing them, and such is a shame!

I agree that it's a shame that discussions generally go in that direction here, but the "obfuscation" hardly goes in one direction. The most vile thing I've ever read on the board was the suggestion that Bob Struble be dragged behind a car, and that certainly didn't come from an "enthusiast."

I suggest looking up the definition of the word obfuscate before applying it to the enthusiasts here. This board is littered with literally thousands of junk posts by the anti-HD side that serve no purpose whatsoever except to confuse the issue and derail legitimate HD Radio discussion. There was a time when it was impossible to even start a thread to discuss a new radio or HD Radio station here without multiple people jumping in to say the same obfuscatory things over and over again like "it doesn't matter, IBUZ will fail." Thankfully, the worst offender seems to have developed other interests and that has made the forum more tolerable.

As far as this forum goes, and the public's impressions of it, I'd say the anti-HD side has a lot more to worry about in general. A lot of what has been posted here makes your side look completely insane. I'm not saying you personally posted such, but many of your comptemporaries have done you no favors in this regard.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Good post showed up yesterday on the "other" HD Radio board; a writer discusses his experience with the Visteon "Jump":

"Heres the problem - my radio can lock in AM HD signals when the ignition is in ACC, but not when the car is running (kinda defeats the purpose)." He goes on to explain that it's being powered from the cigarette lighter (not surprising for a portable radio) so maybe it's picking up noise? Another regular on that board offers helpful advice on filtering techniques: Put a scope on it, try a 100-200 microhenry coil shunted by 1 to 2 microfarad capacitor....

Well, I just hope he doesn't give up too soon. Once he gets the problem fixed and goes for a drive, he might be able to experience the thrill of AM HD for, say, half a mile -- then he will pass a noisy power line down the street and it will drop out. And the process will repeat every thirty seconds or so until he gets on the freeway. Then a thunderstorm will pass through the area and digital AM reception will be gone for an hour. Then the sun will set, and he will lose lock on his local HD station because skywave signals are spoiling the digital sidebands.

But it will be worth the effort, because this technology makes AM sound like FM!

Apparently Bob Struble wasn't being dragged behind his car at all. He was just pushing it, so he could listen to HD Radio.

What, prey tell, do the "anti-IBOC side" have to worry about?

If HD Radio/IBOC can't stand up on it's own merits to criticism, it's defects, and exposure of HD Radio's wild and false claims then it deserves to die.

 

[Mike Walker]

Is the Accurian "gone" as Hipporadio asserts? It's still on the Radio Shack site, and still in stores. I refer to it only because it's the ONLY experience I have with HD Radio. I WILL buy another one, but with my antenna, rotor, and preamp, it's providing great reception, as a bargain-basement TUNER in my audio system (I never use the speakers). I don't know what's "irrelevant" about saying that it works well, AS I USE IT, for what I use it for. Perhaps by using the term "irrelevant", Hippo was talking about the fact (again, is it a fact?) that it's been discontinued.

Absent test equipment, all most of us can offer is real-world experience. I think the fact that it demonstrably, and reliably works from 100+ miles at my location IS "news", not opinion. It would be opinion if I couldn't demonstrate it!

Peace (love, and understanding) to us all!

 

[Radioman100]

Apparently Bob Struble wasn't being dragged behind his car at all. He was just pushing it, so he could listen to HD Radio.

What, prey tell, do the "anti-IBOC side" have to worry about?

If HD Radio/IBOC can't stand up on it's own merits to criticism, it's defects, and exposure of HD Radio's wild and false claims then it deserves to die.

Worry about? Hippo drops a post verbally spanking the "enthusiasts" for posting in a way that will make the general public not take us seriously.

Later that same day, someone from the anti side puts up a post titled "IBOCR@P."

Pot, meet kettle. What do you guys have to worry about? Nothing at all. By all means, keep blasting away, and the nuttier and more obsessed you make it sound the better. Posting threads like "IBOCR@P" should help the other visitors Hippo mentions see you for what you are pretty quickly.

 

[Tom Wells]

That's not obfuscation on the part of the detractors. It's merely the digital sidebands enhancing your reception.
You must read these posts with a narrowband detector.
There's no obfuscation at all where I'm reading.
You might need to reload your computer, or try a newer computer.

 

[JohnnyElectron]

Back to the original topic - is there a way to 'fix' HD-AM, or do we need to go to 'Plan B'?

HD-AM: Increase the digital component - better digital coverage - worse adjacent channel interference to 2 or 4 of your neighbors on the dial.

CAM-D: How well does it work at night?

C-Quam: Stereo coverage is as good as analog at night; 3rd gen chip eliminated platform motion and added a fade to mono. Doesn't bother the neighbors. A million minivans, Caddy's, TBirds, and Mustangs with CQuam receivers. What's not to like?

DRM: Probably the same as HD-AM.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

If we ignore the digital interference entirely, as HD supporters suggest, then why not drop HD radio and just adopt the open, internationally recognized DRM system for use on adjacent channels. Let every AM and FM station use their upper and lower adjacent channels for DRM1 (lower adjacent) and DRM2 (upper adjacent).
Or, to minimize interference the powers of these new adjacent channel DRM signals could then be adjusted independently.
This would give AMs an additional new digital program channel, while reducing digital interference.
There is absolutely no need for the proprietary and problematic iBiquity HD radio system.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Adding to my DRM alternative/HD radio post above:

iBiquity and the HD cartel have often justified their obsolete and defective digital radio system by falsely claiming that HD radio is the only path to all digital operation. Yet my DRM AM plan outlined above clearly allows up to 2 channels of additional digital broadcasting now and an additional higher powered channel of digital in the future when converting the center analog channel to DRM AM digital when practical.

A similar adjacent channel DRM plan could be adopted for FM in place of HD FM and both AM and FM systems could fit the same NRSC-5a spectrum mask that was recently fully approved by the FCC. This adjacent channel DRM system will not solve many interference complaints, but it will give all stations equal opportunity to buzz back without paying the iBiquity tribute fees.

DRM radios and broadcasting equipment have been available for years. The DRM system is fully documented, is well understood and has been in worldwide use with good results.

 

[clouseau]

If we ignore the digital interference entirely, as HD supporters suggest, then why not drop HD radio and just adopt the open, internationally recognized DRM system for use on adjacent channels. Let every AM and FM station use their upper and lower adjacent channels for DRM1 (lower adjacent) and DRM2 (upper adjacent).

This doesn't make any sense. We have a system to do this already. It's called HD Radio...

.....This would give AMs an additional new digital program channel, while reducing digital interference.

And eliminate the concept of analog blending. One digital channel which may occasionally drop out and one AM quality channel. OK... A case can be made that we don't have a great system. This clearly looks worse...

There is absolutely no need for the proprietary and problematic iBiquity HD radio system.

Now your motivation is clear. Anything but Ibiquity no matter the result. I keep forgetting that's the prime directive.

Clouseau

 

[Radioman100]

Now your motivation is clear. Anything but Ibiquity no matter the result. I keep forgetting that's the prime directive.

You bet! And that would be your motivation too if you truly believed iBiquity was an evil corporation hell bent on destroying radio, formed only to squash small mom and pop stations and annoy DXers.