100.3 to go News/Talk?

[transent]

Allaccess.com reports that Radio One MIGHT be ready to sell 100.3 and rumors are rampant of a News/Talk format coming to the frequency soon.

If this source is true, I'm curious as to whether or not the News/Talk format would be a simulcast of an AM News/Talk.

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

Well if it's Bonneville, there is no local AM to simulcast (that they own). It's probably not Citadel since they're in over their head right now with losses. Both CBS and Clear Channel are at their market limits.

My guess...If it's News/Talk with Bonneville, they will need to show the money. There's very little syndicated talk left for them...Plus....a news format will be VERY expensive in LA and will have to take on KNX and KFWB.

I find it puzzling...

Perhaps they could hire away some angry talk show hosts from KFI.

 

[Big E]

do we really need another news/talk? I think KNX and KFWB pretty much take care of news. KFI, KABC, KGIL, KLSX and even KTLK cover the talk part. So where would this new station fit in? I dont see it happening.

 

[rapking]

Radio One ( I see Dumb People ) ruin this station, just like they ruin there station in Boston .

 

[calguy]

First off, News/Talk is an expensive format. Secondly 100.3 isn't that great a signal and you want that for News/Talk, plus we're already over saturated in LA with stations doing it. But who knows, there's a sucker born every minute. It would have to be someone with tons of cash to burn. Maybe someone along the lines of Rupert Murdoch might want to try it.

 

[Big E]

As far as I can recall, this frequency hasnt had much success. Since 97, its gone through 4 station changes (KIBB, KCMG, KKBT, KRBV).

 

[airpab]

Their signal is more than adequate to cover the whole region...and how can you go wrong with a middle-of-the dial frequency like that?

The question is, what do they do with it? Why not come at stations/formats that get ratings?

Their are some definite opportunities, but News/Talk on FM simply doesn't work...anywhere:

-No one really takes on KIIS directly as a Top 40. KIIS leans Hip-Hop, so a true Top 40 could make a dent.

-No one comes directly at KOST with AC. They have always enjoyed good numbers with no challengers.

-I think L.A. could support a hybrid AC/Jazz type format. Leaning AC but throwing in cool Jazzy tracks like Sade, Luther, Bobby Caldwell, etc. So you go at KTWV and KOST at the same time.

 

[davideduardo]

Their signal is more than adequate to cover the whole region...and how can you go wrong with a middle-of-the dial frequency like that?

It's the second from the worst Wilson signal, and has pretty spotty OC coverage beyond Irvine, so it is not great but might be adequate. On FM, there is no proof that position on the dial means anything.

The question is, what do they do with it? Why not come at stations/formats that get ratings?

Ah, but there is no traditional n/t on FM. And the rumored buyer is very big on FM for this, because while AM n/t does poorly under 55, FM stations with the format do much better. The issue is which CCU FM would immediately go to simulcast KFI to protect the billing and sales demos. 92.3?

Their are some definite opportunities, but News/Talk on FM simply doesn't work...anywhere:

Clear has traditional n/t on FM in NO, Pittsburgh, Charleston, Tallahassee, etc. Then look at Cox in Dayton and Jax, and the Bonneville FMs, etc., etc. They all know AM n/t can't get 25-54 but FM versions can.

-No one really takes on KIIS directly as a Top 40. KIIS leans Hip-Hop, so a true Top 40 could make a dent.

Yeah, two stations, one with a 2.5 and one with a 2.

-No one comes directly at KOST with AC. They have always enjoyed good numbers with no challengers.

4 shares, split however you want, is not a winner for either.

-I think L.A. could support a hybrid AC/Jazz type format. Leaning AC but throwing in cool Jazzy tracks like Sade, Luther, Bobby Caldwell, etc. So you go at KTWV and KOST at the same time.

Yeah, with Smooth Jazz stations dying coast to coast, let's take on one that has 0over half its audience over 55.

 

[davideduardo]

do we really need another news/talk? I think KNX and KFWB pretty much take care of news. KFI, KABC, KGIL, KLSX and even KTLK cover the talk part. So where would this new station fit in? I dont see it happening.

There is no traditional n/t on FM, and that is where the 25-54 listener wants this format. Look all over the country and you can see that the move to FM of traditional n/t is very powerful.

 

[hotpatrick2004]

Radio one also ruined the heritage station wlrs alt station in my hometown louisville ky. Calling them dumb is an understatement.

 

[radioresearcher]

do we really need another news/talk? I think KNX and KFWB pretty much take care of news. KFI, KABC, KGIL, KLSX and even KTLK cover the talk part. So where would this new station fit in? I dont see it happening.

There is no traditional n/t on FM, and that is where the 25-54 listener wants this format. Look all over the country and you can see that the move to FM of traditional n/t is very powerful.

Bonneville has fairly strict guidelines about lyrical content. They will not do a format where it plays hip-hop. They did top 40 for a while in DC and SF and bailed out. They paid a ton of money for a successful hip-hop station in Phoenix and blew it up and sold the intellectual property.

The closest thing to edgy is WSWD/Cincinnati - an Adult-leaning Alternative station that has since moved more adult and conservative since Bonneville bought it.

David is correct that Bonneville has had some success (as Emmis did recently) moving heritage News/Talk outlets to the FM dial. However, those were entrenched AM's...

The next hot trend is going to be moving those AM News/Talk outlets over to FM. Watch the trend EXPLODE over the next 18 months to 2 years - and give Bonneville credit for leading the charge with KSL, WTOP, and KTAR.

I know I don't go over to AM as much as I used to, but would absolutely have a button if KNX or KFWB were on an FM signal.

I'd rather take my shot as the only News/Talk on FM than the second or third AC.

 

[airpab]

Disagree with ya DE. News/Talk on FM would maybe get you a 2 share in any market and that would take a long time to get if you're lucky!

-The signal more than adequately gets to about 15 million potential listeners? Yes, it's not a KRTH signal, but it's also not city grade?

-Which stations specifically and directly take on KIIS and KOST?

-Take a look at Smooth Jazz in the ARB's in the West. San Diego, Sacramento, L.A., Seattle, Phoenix, Las Vegas? Smooth Jazz is doing better than just good in these markets in multi-demo's?

 

[willcail]

airpab

What News/Talk doesn't work on FM? Ever heard of WXXM 92.1 FM? It is a FM talk station that is pulling 3.2 3.4 share. That is higher than some AM talk stations.

 

[airpab]

willcail?

You're citing a station in Madison, WI?? We're talking about major market here? Apples & Oranges?

 

[davideduardo]

Disagree with ya DE. News/Talk on FM would maybe get you a 2 share in any market and that would take a long time to get if you're lucky!

All depends on the lineup, and the ability to get good talent, local and syndicated. The audience in 25-54 is there, since it is less than satisfied with AM news / talk if it is even using it at all.

Look at the startups in Pittsburgh and New Orleans against KDKA and WWL. In P'burgh, the new FM only has terrific 25-54s and in NO, the station forced Entercom to put WWL on an FM simulcast.

While most FM n/t stations now are former AMs that moved to FM to save themselves demographically, there will be plenty of startups over the next few years, too. Some will work, others will not... it depends on content and whether any existing n/t makes the move itself.

-The signal more than adequately gets to about 15 million potential listeners? Yes, it's not a KRTH signal, but it's also not city grade?

The 100.3 signal puts a 70 dbu on 10.7 million persons, while KBIG reaches 3 million more. As I said, it is the second from the bottom of all the Mt. Wilson signals in reach. Were it to go N/T it is very vulnerable to CCU putting KFI on a better signal.

-Which stations specifically and directly take on KIIS and KOST?

I said nobody is going to take either on directly, as the result would be a sub-3 share. KIIS with Seacrest, a perfect fit for the 18-34 female target, is not going to give up much to a contentder, and the contender will not be strong enough to get decent billing. Of course, look at the 18-34 numbers and you realize KPWR is KIIS' direct competitor already...


As to KOST, Clear already set up KBIG to protect in between KIIS and KOST, and KLVE is also AC and blocks the Hispanic side well. With the market 42% Hispanic and only about 30% non-Hispanic whites that are not first generation immigrants, the Hispanic factor is very strong there.

-Take a look at Smooth Jazz in the ARB's in the West. San Diego, Sacramento, L.A., Seattle, Phoenix, Las Vegas? Smooth Jazz is doing better than just good in these markets in multi-demo's?

Actually, stations in Phx, SF, LA and Las Vegas are considered to be vulnerable. In the case of KTWV, 51% of the audience is over 55. KKSF in San Francisco is 52% over 55. This preponderance of virtyually unsalable demos is what is causing so many flips to other formats. KKSF, for example, is down to 16th in 25-54 in SF, and that is why its billing is now on a decline.

 

[airpab]

DE

You can't count KBIG as an AC buffer. They are not AC? It is not out of the question to have 2 AC's competing in a market this big? AC has enough mass appeal to hit many demos and is very billable? So, I ask again, why wouldn't it be worth a shot to take on KOST directly.(who by the way, doesn't have the best signal either)

On the KPWR/KIIS thing. You made my point! They are both heavy Hip/Hop leaning. So why couldn't a true Top 40 product like WHTZ in New York, give KIIS and KPWR a run?

On the Smooth Jazz thing. You cite KKSF...the lowest performing SJ outlet in the West..they've definitely got their problems...But what about all the others I mentioned?

I beg to differ with you on the unsaleable demo of 55+. In fact, they have the most disposable income of us all. Maybe that's where radio has failed to adjust on the "prized demo" concept? Radio revenues overall in the industry are down! And, if 49% of KTWV's audience is under 55, isn't that still an appealing and very saleable demo?

 

[davideduardo]

You can't count KBIG as an AC buffer. They are not AC?

Sure they are AC. They are somewhere in the Hot or contemporary AC range, but they plug the hole between KIIS and KOST on the AC / Female spectrum for CCU.

It is not out of the question to have 2 AC's competing in a market this big?

There are two traditional AC's, KLVE and KOST. There is one modern or hotter AC, KBIG.

AC has enough mass appeal to hit many demos and is very billable? So, I ask again, why wouldn't it be worth a shot to take on KOST directly.(who by the way, doesn't have the best signal either)

As to KOST, it IS on Wilson and IS 12.5 kw, so quite a bit better than 100.3, for example. But it tends to run in the bottom half of the top 10, 25-54. So if someone came against it, the fragmentation could make both stations about a 1.8 in the demo, and less than successful.

On the KPWR/KIIS thing. You made my point! They are both heavy Hip/Hop leaning. So why couldn't a true Top 40 product like WHTZ in New York, give KIIS and KPWR a run?

Because this is LA. There is just not enough audience for the kind of CHR you describe. Look at KIIS, a female heavy 18-34 station... when the female audience wants heavy rhythmic, it shows no opening or opportunity for a conventional, rock-leaning CHR.

On the Smooth Jazz thing. You cite KKSF...the lowest performing SJ outlet in the West..they've definitely got their problems...But what about all the others I mentioned?

They are all half-or-more 55+, and even the SD station is looking dog-eared. In fact, one of the issues when it was thought Lincoln would sell the SD cluster was the ageing demo and declining performance of that station.

I beg to differ with you on the unsaleable demo of 55+. In fact, they have the most disposable income of us all. Maybe that's where radio has failed to adjust on the "prized demo" concept? Radio revenues overall in the industry are down!

In larger markets, the business that makes the difference is agency business. When I last asked about when the last time a 55+ agency buy came down in LA, I was told, "I can't even remember one." And agencies simply obey the demographic orders of their clients, so this is pretty much unchangable. Clients do not go after 55+ as, for a rule, the ROI is not there.

And, if 49% of KTWV's audience is under 55, isn't that still an appealing and very saleable demo?

What it means is that a station that "looks" good in the Arbitron 12+ actually can look terrible in 25-54. KTWV is down to 13th in 25-54, in fact, and most buys do not go that deep.

It also means that rates are based on the 25-54 delivery, so they are actually lower than the 12+ would indicate. KTWV's 2007 billings were off about 10% from 2006, and the power ratio is about a 0.9 now... all signs that the station has to either modify the format or look at options in the long term future.

 

[airpab]

Makes sense. Maybe a good News/Talk on FM in LA would work...especially on that frequency, because music historically hasn't worked on 100.3 since KIQQ?

Will be interesting to see how terrestrial radio will fare in the future. Seems like it has become stale and kind of boring? Revenues overall are flat and/or declining and people seem to be disenchanted with it. All I ever hear from people is..."I'd rather listen to my IPOD or "I've got Sirius and I love it"

And with Sirius and XM gaining listeners in droves, what will radio do to ramp up it's weakening revenue model?

 

[Countrykitten]

DE let me ask, how well is 97.1 doing as a talk FM?

The AM Talk stations have been extremely disappointing. I would not tune into an AM talk/news station to hear about trucks and trucking, along with all the paid programming they are now airing (KABC)........Overall LA radio....with a few exceptions..is starting to suck to me.....very disappointing. I know some think that hosts need coaches and consultants... I think the radio executives and the companies that own them need them more. The decisions being made (or not made) and the losses incurred have been ridiculous.

 

[davideduardo]

DE let me ask, how well is 97.1 doing as a talk FM?

It's doing terrific and is 11th in market billing out of 88 stations. But KLSX is not a traditional news talk, so is irrelevant to this discussion. Traditional news talk is KFI, WCCO, KMOX, WIBC, KSL.

The AM Talk stations have been extremely disappointing. I would not tune into an AM talk/news station to hear about trucks and trucking, along with all the paid programming they are now airing (KABC)........Overall LA radio....with a few exceptions..is starting to suck to me.....very disappointing. I know some think that hosts need coaches and consultants... I think the radio executives and the companies that own them need them more. The decisions being made (or not made) and the losses incurred have been ridiculous.

I have to admit I do not understand this part, especially the thing about trucks. More than that, I don't get the "losses" part, either.