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101.5 The Point re-imaging?
- Thread starter Obtuse1
- Start date
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
It's still too new to change. Cox does a new guy doing AM traffic however
The best thing Cox can do with WPOI The Point is flip it to News-Talk on FM. If implemented correctly with the right blend of local and national talk with heavy local news, Cox can own the Tampa Bay News-Talk market, beating out WFLA within a reasonable amount of time. We did it in another Florida market when we flipped an underperforming FM to News-Talk on FM; beating the heritage AM News-Talker in the market. Everyone thought we were nutts doing it, but the ratings (going from no showing to 2nd ranked persons 12+ in the market of 37 stations) and the ad revenues (billing less than $400k annually to $3.4 million annually in a $16 million annual radio ad market - A $3 million annual ad revenue gain) proved we were right on target.
Good luck to them if they go that route without rights to Rush, Beck et al. in this market. They'll need it. And with Clear Channel pulling the old "Indian giver" on loyal Rush affiliates in markets like Raleigh to boost their own new FM talk stations, I don't see Rush leaving 970 in the near future. The Point does well in the ratings. Many months ago, they cracked the Arbitron Top 5 - tight playlist and all. Open it up! Do they play any Michael Jackson at all?
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
The Point should play some current Hot AC too. I think Mix could be beaten . Live jocks sometimes would help.
jmtillery said:
A station doesn't necessarily need Rush and Beck in order to get the desired results with news-talk. The key is mixing the right blend of local and national talk; ideally all local, and saturating the market with a very heavy promotional campaign. Local talk along with heavy news is where the big payoff comes into play. Even if Clear Channel eventually moves Rush to an FM in the market, if Cox makes the move first, cementing itself as THE local FM News-Talker, Cox will be way ahead of the game. Waiting till after Clear Channel moves Rush to an FM will make it more challenging for any other operator to get the overall desired results although it isn't impossible.
WPOI is currently 13th ranked among person 12+ in the TSA. Although this isn't a bad ranking, it isn't in the top 10 nor top 5 overall. WFLA-AM is ranked number 2 in the same category of TSA Persons 12+ and it's an AM station with an inferior signal and critical directional antenna pattern - subject to all sorts of signal interference. WPOI is a 100,000 watt "static-free" non directional FM with a much wider primary signal, covering from Spring Hill to the North to Venice to the South and Orlando to the East. By taking the number two market format (news-talk), placing it on FM, promoting it with the correct local/national programming mix, WPOI could move from 13th to the top 5, possibly unseating WFLA's number two position. It wouldn't surprise me if it were to move into the number one position. Moving from 13th to the top 5 is quite a jump, and I don't need to tell you that with each additinal rating point, that also means additional ad dollars through increased CPM and GRP due to a much higher cume and overall increased AQH Persons an AQH Ratings.
As I said in a previous post, everyone thought we were nutts when we did this in another Florida market. We proved everyone wrong and even surprised ourselves with the overall results we realized with that bold move.
This is Cox we're talking about here.
The station had two direct employees the last time I heard them. They do OK in females 25-54 (and trust me, that's the only demo they care about with this station because they have 102.5 and the Eagle for male demos) they can sell it, super low overhead, end of story.
The station had two direct employees the last time I heard them. They do OK in females 25-54 (and trust me, that's the only demo they care about with this station because they have 102.5 and the Eagle for male demos) they can sell it, super low overhead, end of story.
Parttimer said:
You are implying by the way you worded your statemenet that Cox will never consider any improvements due to corporate complacency and basic laziness. I. E., It's good enough the way it is, so why do any actual work to make it better?".
I will be the first to acknowledge that Cox, or anyone else, can do whatever they want with their respective stations. Afterall its their station and not mine. However, you mention The Bone 102.5 and The Eagle as the Cox mediums used to target the adult male listening audience. Although WXGL has decent numbers, WHPT has even lower ratings than 101.5. Additionally it should be noted that The Bone targets a different male subset than what news-talk generally targets. So even though both formats target a male audience, they don't target the same male audience.
And with regards to low overhead, should any Tampa Bay 100kw FM move from 13th into the Top 5 position, regardless of how it was accomplished, and regardless or target demo, this can, and does, mean additional ad revenues in the $$$ millions in annual bottom line profit margins just for adding a few more ratings points. The additional ad revenues will certainly offset any additional overhead or cost of doing business, resulting in a greater ROI which = BIGGER PROFITS! It should also be noted, as I am sure you are aware, that Tampa Bay is a $109.2 million annual radio advertising revenue market.
To summarize, I personally have absolutely nothing to gain or lose regardless or what any Tampa Bay station does or doesn't do. I have no financial stake in any of the stations in The Bay area. I was, however, making a professional observation of an individual station and offering a suggestion (even though in all probablity there is nothing you can do to act upon my suggestion unless you happen to be a final decision maker within the Cox Radio corporate structure) of how to realize the highest and absolute best use of a underperforming 100kw medium in a comparison - constrast with the competition and how to best compete in a competitive radio market.
jmtillery said:
I'm not implying, that's pretty much my point, except that it's more money-driven. They are all about margin, OK billing with no expenses.
DBO in Orlando was what it was before Cox bought it, and their heritage and news image have held the audience despite the loss of Rush (a CC power play to take him away). Trying to do it as a start-up with no heritage is an entirely different conversation.
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
Cox owns Tampa Bay's top station 12+ the old way and still #1 on PPM and it has one person on the airstaff. The Eagle has two. The Point shares it's two people with the X. I've lived here for 10 years and hiring BTLS was the only risk I think Cox has taken in those 10 years. Creating a fully staffed news outlet to bring down FLA would take Cox and the other two pieces of the puzzle.
Parttimer said:
There are certainly advantages and disadvantages to the business model you described regarding Cox Radio. You used WDBO Orlando as the anomaly to the Cox Radio rule.
In addition to heritage WDBO Orlando, WOKV Jacksonville also falls into the heritage news-talk category under the Cox Radio umbrella. I would say that WOKV could also be considered an anomaly according to the Cox business model you outlined.
WOKV was operating on 5,000 watt AM 600 when Cox acquired it, but spent a rather small forturne moving it to the 50kw AM 690 frequency. For one thing the 50,000 watt transmitter was replaced along with a complete station move from Orange Park to Lennox Avenue in Jacksonville. Cox already owned the building, but there were some equipment upgrades in addition to the transmitter replacement - not to mention the general operational expenses associated with operating a 50kw news-talk AM station. It still cost plenty to operate WOKV today, but the billing makes up for it - same as with WDBO Orlando.
Keeping this in mind I wouldn't necessarily say Cox uses the "OK billing with no expense" business model on every station although that may pretty much describe the majority of the stations in the Cox portfolio. In the case of Tampa Bay, Cox just hasn't yet seen the need to make any improvements on any of the stations. I personally have no inside information regarding Cox Radio. I'm not speaking as an insider, nor am I making any predictions.
Getting back to the Jacksonville situation for a moment, I would say Cox owned WOKV is the WDBO of Jacksonville and is one of the most listened stations in all of Jacksonville and North Florida. By-the-way, WOKV is also on Cox owned WOKV-FM. It's a simulcast operation, rebroadcasting AM programming on a 6kw class A FM frequency.
To briefly summarize, I am not disagreeing with you as what you described is what many broadcast and media companies are doing by cutting back, same as Cox, in an effort to reduce costs due to the uncertainty of the future economy. We all know it will turn around once again heading into the black, but none of use are fortune tellers and none of us know exactly when the turnaround will take place and become complete though there are signs of an economic recovery in place now. In the meantime, until the turnaround has completed, the "bean counters" are using short term thinking by cutting and slashing to the bare bone.
For the record, Cox competes with a local Clear Channel talk station in quite a few markets, to good results. The CC talk station may have Rush, Beck, Hannity, Levin, Noory, etc.
But in other markets, Cox counters with
--Neil Boortz 9am-1pm (based at Cox's WSB Atlanta)
--Clark Howard 1-3pm (based at Cox's WSB Atlanta)
--Jerry Doyle late afternoons
--Michael Savage evenings
--Rusty Humphrey late night
--America Tonight with Kate Delaney overnight
The only question is what to do about mornings. Cox does a local morning show, with the expense that entails, at all the talk stations it owns that I know of... WSB Atlanta, WDBO Orlando, WOKV Jacksonville, WSTC - WNLK Stamford-Norwalk CT, etc. They might run syndicated conservative talkers the rest of the day but they always do a local talk show in AM Drive. In Orlando and So. Connecticut they also do local talk in PM drive, but that's not going to happen in Tampa Bay anytime soon, especially since WFLA doesn't do it either.
So would a Cox FM talker run Imus in The Morning to keep expenses low? He's on a 1000 watt Tampa-area AM station but I would imagine he could be stolen for a 100,000 blowtorch that can be heard all around Tampa Bay and Sarasota, even into Orlando and Fort Myers.
At the So. Connecticut talk stations, just outside NYC, they use Metro Traffic to do their newscasts middays, evenings and overnights. (They still employ their own newscasters in mornings and PM Drive.) So that's another way to keep costs low if they started up an FM talker in Tampa Bay.
It's probably a matter of time before WFLA adds an FM outlet. As mentioned above, a 5000 watt directional AM station at 970 is not covering the entire market adequately. AM talk stations in Jacksonville and Fort Myers have added FM simulcasts in the last few years. It's a shame to waste an FM frequency for one of the few formats AM specializes in. But it's probably going to happen in the next few years, whether CC adds an FM simulcast for WFLA or someone else jumps in with an original FM talk station.
I just hope if Cox does it, it's at 101.5. Despite its double-digit 6+ numbers, we know 105.5 WDUV The Dove doesn't bill that well due to older demographics. I think it's a great station, a place you can still hear soft music, The Carpenters, Barry Manilow, Kenny Rogers and Anne Murray. But maybe we shouldn't talk too loudly about Cox putting FM Talk in Tampa Bay for fear it might happen at 105.5, not 101.5.
Gregg
[email protected]
But in other markets, Cox counters with
--Neil Boortz 9am-1pm (based at Cox's WSB Atlanta)
--Clark Howard 1-3pm (based at Cox's WSB Atlanta)
--Jerry Doyle late afternoons
--Michael Savage evenings
--Rusty Humphrey late night
--America Tonight with Kate Delaney overnight
The only question is what to do about mornings. Cox does a local morning show, with the expense that entails, at all the talk stations it owns that I know of... WSB Atlanta, WDBO Orlando, WOKV Jacksonville, WSTC - WNLK Stamford-Norwalk CT, etc. They might run syndicated conservative talkers the rest of the day but they always do a local talk show in AM Drive. In Orlando and So. Connecticut they also do local talk in PM drive, but that's not going to happen in Tampa Bay anytime soon, especially since WFLA doesn't do it either.
So would a Cox FM talker run Imus in The Morning to keep expenses low? He's on a 1000 watt Tampa-area AM station but I would imagine he could be stolen for a 100,000 blowtorch that can be heard all around Tampa Bay and Sarasota, even into Orlando and Fort Myers.
At the So. Connecticut talk stations, just outside NYC, they use Metro Traffic to do their newscasts middays, evenings and overnights. (They still employ their own newscasters in mornings and PM Drive.) So that's another way to keep costs low if they started up an FM talker in Tampa Bay.
It's probably a matter of time before WFLA adds an FM outlet. As mentioned above, a 5000 watt directional AM station at 970 is not covering the entire market adequately. AM talk stations in Jacksonville and Fort Myers have added FM simulcasts in the last few years. It's a shame to waste an FM frequency for one of the few formats AM specializes in. But it's probably going to happen in the next few years, whether CC adds an FM simulcast for WFLA or someone else jumps in with an original FM talk station.
I just hope if Cox does it, it's at 101.5. Despite its double-digit 6+ numbers, we know 105.5 WDUV The Dove doesn't bill that well due to older demographics. I think it's a great station, a place you can still hear soft music, The Carpenters, Barry Manilow, Kenny Rogers and Anne Murray. But maybe we shouldn't talk too loudly about Cox putting FM Talk in Tampa Bay for fear it might happen at 105.5, not 101.5.
Gregg
[email protected]
jmtillery said:
As aggressive as they were with WOKV, the Tampa strategy was the polar opposite. Cox owned what was 620 WSUN, one of the best AM signals in Florida (or just about anywhere, for that matter). They carried a "Hot Talk" format that included Ron & Ron and Neil Rogers. What I've heard is that for the mostly female sales staff that was comfortable selling WWRM and Coast 107.3 (is my time frame right on those FMs?... I think WWRM had moved to 94.9 from 107.3, and that's why Ron and Ron were on AM rather than YNF...), this was just so far out of the box that they couldn't generate revenue despite the fact that there was a small but fiercely loyal core of listeners.
Eventually they sold it and through a few years of broker maneuvers CC managed to get their hands on it, and it's now The Sports Animal, WDAE.
Even in Jax (and I lived in Florida for 13 years, so I heard lots of these stations) once they moved WOKV to 690, Cox put an outstanding local sports talk product on AM 600 as WBWL "The Ball". But like in Tampa, they couldn't figure out how to sell it. The sports station now on 1010 is really similar to what 600 was doing back then.
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
Since 2001 :
1) Cox flipped WFJO to the Point and reduced the airstaff to 2
2) Flipped The Bay to the Eagle and cut airstaff to two.
3) Dave Harrell left PM drive on 105.5 and was not replaced.
4) Corey Dylan VT 's on the X.
Only WWRM, The X, and the Bone make any attempt to "sound" fully staffed not counting overnights (whether they actually are or not).
Some Cox stations like B98.5 in Atlanta, WFLC 93.7 in Miami, and WAPE FM have jingles and their websites show a full airstaff covering 24/7 and week-ends. Cox obviously does not want to put anything sounding that slick into Tampa Bay. I would not expect a fully staffed anything here. I certainly hope the Dove is not flipped. although I think it could sound better with a few more people and new liners.
1) Cox flipped WFJO to the Point and reduced the airstaff to 2
2) Flipped The Bay to the Eagle and cut airstaff to two.
3) Dave Harrell left PM drive on 105.5 and was not replaced.
4) Corey Dylan VT 's on the X.
Only WWRM, The X, and the Bone make any attempt to "sound" fully staffed not counting overnights (whether they actually are or not).
Some Cox stations like B98.5 in Atlanta, WFLC 93.7 in Miami, and WAPE FM have jingles and their websites show a full airstaff covering 24/7 and week-ends. Cox obviously does not want to put anything sounding that slick into Tampa Bay. I would not expect a fully staffed anything here. I certainly hope the Dove is not flipped. although I think it could sound better with a few more people and new liners.
Is 101.5 The Point the only "80s and More" station to last anywhere? Surprising that they haven't broadened things out a bit more to Adult Hits.
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
They should flip to "adult hits' and give it a name. Not BOB, nor Jack, not even SAM.
Since it's COX, I'd go with "DICK".
" 'DICK' plays whatever he wants "! or "Tampa Bay knows DICK about music cause DICK plays what he wants!"
" Don't listen to DICK if you have high blood pressure or taking certain medications"
Since it's COX, I'd go with "DICK".
" 'DICK' plays whatever he wants "! or "Tampa Bay knows DICK about music cause DICK plays what he wants!"
" Don't listen to DICK if you have high blood pressure or taking certain medications"
R
Radio-X
Guest
mbatchelor said:
WPOI is the last Cox 80's rock station. As for other stations that carry it, I know of only WSGA-FM in Savannah, GA which flipped from Adult Hits to 80's a year or two ago as basically a complete rip-off (logo and all!) from "The Point" stations.
I wouldn't be suprised if there are a couple of other "80's and More" stations in some smaller markets where it could be a local hit.
Radio-X
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