they have sattelite & production facilities at WINF/WVXG/WDLR/WUCO facility and Margaret works for both WINF and WHKC. Fred also does work for Holly Casagrandes WHKC as well. They do have Offices off of Powell Road. But those offices also are a Photography studio for Chelse Casagrande which is Hollys Daughter.
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101.9 FM WINF-LP Delaware back to Easy Listening?
- Thread starter xmusicmatt
- Start date
In fact. WHKC started at WDLRs site. That was when Robb Case & his Mother Owned Both stations before his passing. They only created a studio at the Cotter Street Location for the convience of Holly & Duaghter and others who wanted to create content without driving all the way to Delaware.
mikenci said:
Ok, that makes sense since i have never seen a satellite dish at the powell location and I know they air a lot of national ministry content including stuff from Moody.
I was just curious because I remember when Mark Bohach from WLOH helped Holly build a new studio with the DADPro automation system.
It's pretty cool to see stations be able to 'co exist' in this day and age of 'competition'
mikenci said:
When their signal can be picked up on a table top radio fifty or sixty miles from their tower site, it makes some of us wonder if something is wrong. Do you think they are running at their licensed
power of 59 watts ERP? There antenna is about one hundred feet off the ground.
wilson1000 said:
In downtown Columbus, WINF-LP has a stronger signal then WCRS-LP but the WINF-LP tower site is about twice the distance to downtown Columbus then the WCRS tower site. That sounds to me like something is wrong.
I have seen there transmitter. It is a Harris Exciter that can only put out 75 Watts Top. It is the size of a bread box. They do use a Four Bay antenna which takes up a lot of tower space. LPFMS are licenced at a 100 watts at 100 Feet. You can go Higher in hight but you have to lower your transmitter power. Hince the 59 Watts. Engineering lesson one: The higher you are the further you go irrespective of transmitter power. That is why you are not suppose to use a cell phone on an airline. You Bring up cell sites a hundred miles away. Also you can take a two watt ham walkie talkie and in an airplane at 1000 feet talk to Lima From Columbus on what is essentially the FM Band. WINFs signal does get out because of hight and the geographic location of their tower. However It is a paper thin signal. That is why some days its great somedays it sucks dependant on atmospherics and weather conditions as well as FM skip which occurs in Spring and Fall. During these times Detroit radio stations boom in here. There are some days that 107.9 cannot be heard in worthington because of the Cleveland 107.9 blowing in. Most LPFM installations I have seen use the Cheapist antenna Rooftop Mount and little or any audio processing. This is likely because of budget constraignts. But you can do alot with low power if you have the money. Someone Mentioned Mark Bohach. He has the same type FM facilities on a translator south of Lancaster and Blows in north of Cannal Winchester and into downtown Columbus on any given day. Check those map distances. Good Engineering investment pays big dividends if you got the cash.
mikenci said:
So, based on your cell phone example, does this mean that "higher=goes further" applies to receiving as well as transmitting? Way back before airlines started warning against it, I (stupidly, in retrospect) would turn on my little Walkman radio in-flight and sometimes clearly pick up FMs from 150+ miles away, maybe even further.
Yes...That is correct. That is why people are having issues with HD TV reception over the air. All of the TV Stations are now UHF signals at a lot lower power. They are having to replace or re-orient there antennas outdoor to pick up these signals they once picked up with rabit ear when they were VHF (FM) Signals. The Higher The Antenna The better the reception.
For the record...I was in Downtown Delaware Tonight at The Wall Mart. WCRS was comming in like a Local Full Quiteing. there was a foriegn Language program on. The 98.9 signal was also booming in. Also 96.7 the marion LPFM is comming in with a very listenable signal. You need to come up here and see for yourself what actual coverage of all of these stations are.
Enigineeriong lesson two: look at the coverage map for WVKO-FM and WNNP richwood station WNND Pickerington is...You will see their signal coverage is well beyond those dipected on their coverage maps. FM Signals can be heard cleanly down to the 0.1MV/M IF there is no interferance. The predicted contours are not they way staions recievable signals are.
For the record...I was in Downtown Delaware Tonight at The Wall Mart. WCRS was comming in like a Local Full Quiteing. there was a foriegn Language program on. The 98.9 signal was also booming in. Also 96.7 the marion LPFM is comming in with a very listenable signal. You need to come up here and see for yourself what actual coverage of all of these stations are.
Enigineeriong lesson two: look at the coverage map for WVKO-FM and WNNP richwood station WNND Pickerington is...You will see their signal coverage is well beyond those dipected on their coverage maps. FM Signals can be heard cleanly down to the 0.1MV/M IF there is no interferance. The predicted contours are not they way staions recievable signals are.
So, based on your cell phone example, does this mean that "higher=goes further" applies to receiving as well as transmitting? Way back before airlines started warning against it, I (stupidly, in retrospect) would turn on my little Walkman radio in-flight and sometimes clearly pick up FMs from 150+ miles away, maybe even further.
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That sounds awesome. One more reason we need to put cities in the sky lol.
[/quote]
That sounds awesome. One more reason we need to put cities in the sky lol.
mikenci said:
Since it's been brought up, I will add that the WLOH translator (W283BO) operates at 250 Watts
from the top of our 200 ft AM tower on Lancaster's east side. We use an ERI 2 bay half-wave antenna (a full power antenna exactly like the ones class A and B1 stations use) which allows us operate with a transmitter power of 440 Watts. The half wave spacing limits downward radiation
to optimize the reach. Our goal was "the 33 corridor" and we generally do well to Canal Winchester.
Good audio processing and a new solid state transmitter also help. We bought a new digital Optimod and upgraded our STL to a full T1 line.
All this for a little translator!
markbohach said:
Is it correct that you basically can put these things as high as you want, as long as the facility fits into the hole of the stations surrounding it?
Was it W284BD in Logan on 104.7? All the databases still show that, including the FCC, but that's not the first translator move/call move I have seen that way.
OhioMediaWatch said:
Yes that Translator used to be in Logan, it was sold by Hardware Monkey to WLOH.
http://cdbs.recnet.net:8080/fmq.php?facid=&call=W284BD&ccode=1&latd=&lond=&city=&state=&country=US&zip=&party=&party_type=LICEN
Mark had a CP approved to relocate to WLOH Lancaster's tower on 104.5.
mikenci said:
This is the WINF-LP coverage map for WINF-LP, via the FCC website, for any of the doubters out there that believe their signal coverage area is correct.
http://maps.google.com/?q=http://ww...&freq=101.9&contour=60&city=DELAWARE&state=OH
Their coverage map doesn't even cover all of Delaware county but I'm hearing the station all the way south to Downtown Columbus.
South Columbus!
mikenci said:
I beg to differ with your engineering "expertise" mike from nci. It's apparent you don't know anything about RF except for the very basics. Put it this way ... the FCC has been alerted on the illegal operations going on in Delaware.
I don't know what WINF is doing or not doing, and if it's "legal" or "not legal".
It's my understanding that translators can go high up on a tower with up to 250 watts - look at some of those mega-translators Cumulus has in Atlanta, that are nearly fully market! I don't know if this applies to LPFMs or WINF at all.
I seem to recall that last time I was in the market, 101.9 wasn't listenable pretty much directly south of the Polaris area.
It's my understanding that translators can go high up on a tower with up to 250 watts - look at some of those mega-translators Cumulus has in Atlanta, that are nearly fully market! I don't know if this applies to LPFMs or WINF at all.
I seem to recall that last time I was in the market, 101.9 wasn't listenable pretty much directly south of the Polaris area.
There are height and power restrictions for translators, depending on what area of the country they are in. They are more restrictive in Zone I (Class B FM areas) than Zone II (areas that have the 100kW Class C stations).
However, in the case of translators that are rebroadcasting an AM station, the translator's height and power are not limited by the aforementioned restrictions but instead the primary coverage area must be no greater than the parent AM station's primary coverage contour, and the max power is 250 watts for the translator.
LPFM stations are limited to 100 watts at 100 feet (~30 meters) above average terrain and must reduce power if the antenna is located higher than that.
This map is only the 60 dBu primary service area. A station on a clear frequency can be heard well outside this area, particularly on car radios or other sensitive receivers.
However, in the case of translators that are rebroadcasting an AM station, the translator's height and power are not limited by the aforementioned restrictions but instead the primary coverage area must be no greater than the parent AM station's primary coverage contour, and the max power is 250 watts for the translator.
LPFM stations are limited to 100 watts at 100 feet (~30 meters) above average terrain and must reduce power if the antenna is located higher than that.
gabigley1 said:
This map is only the 60 dBu primary service area. A station on a clear frequency can be heard well outside this area, particularly on car radios or other sensitive receivers.
techie2 said:
Agreed but
looking at the radio-locator map, they list three service area contours and the third/weakest one goes know where near the south side of downtown Columbus where they are being heard on a table top radio:
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WINF&service=FL&status=L&hours=U
WNIF-LP seems to have turned their power down in the last day or so.
I'm always suspicious of claims that licensed radio stations are operating illegally. It puts them at great risk for fines they probably can't afford, especially in the case of LPFMs.
I also know that atmospheric conditions sometimes carry signals where they normally would not go.
I submit that no one has PROOF that WINF-LP is operating beyond their licensed facilities, though the licensees of stations like 102.1 (two, in that case) should look into it if it appears obvious that there are no atmospheric reasons for the signal carrying that far.
It's easy to say "hey, I can pick them up south of Columbus, they must have 'turned up the power'", but you have to PROVE it before they'll get in trouble.
I also know that atmospheric conditions sometimes carry signals where they normally would not go.
I submit that no one has PROOF that WINF-LP is operating beyond their licensed facilities, though the licensees of stations like 102.1 (two, in that case) should look into it if it appears obvious that there are no atmospheric reasons for the signal carrying that far.
It's easy to say "hey, I can pick them up south of Columbus, they must have 'turned up the power'", but you have to PROVE it before they'll get in trouble.
OhioMediaWatch said:
agreed
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