102.5 WHIZ Move in...

[Nu_Roo_2]

I fully agree with you that the classic hits format should be tried on a bigger signal (remember, we do have WMJI up here), but I just can't see what signal would try it.

The painfully obvious answer at present is 93.3.

Forgot to mention that CC already has a decent Premium Choice Classic Hits format -- much better than the lousy canned Classic Hits format on 90-pound weakling 104.3.  The CC Premium Choice Classic Hits  is currently on KQQL Minneapolis and is getting decent ratings in that much more competitive market -- even with a "Jack" that plays many of the same songs.  LZT is of course already airing a PC format, Mainstream AC (same music as WYYY Syracuse and WMXL Lexington).  It may be somewhat better than Sunny musically, but why not go for something that's essentially absent in the market instead -- especially if you already use a national list and out-of-market voicetracking in some dayparts anyway?   Would be an easy, low-risk/substantial-upside switch.  Would make even more sense given that listeners were already used to hearing some of that music mixed in with the pre-PC Soft AC at 93.3.  And that the demos are fairly compatible.  And that it would still allow the ratings-boosting Christmas-music programming.  I'd sure like to believe that those claims that 93.3 is being used to satisfy a personal vendetta are untrue.  Or that if they WERE true, that an attitude adjustment is in the offing.

 

[gabigley1]

I can't believe how bad some of those rimshots are. 104.3 and 107.1 are embarrassments. 103.1 shouldn't be trying to serve ANYTHING in the Columbus market.

Amen!

103.1 is 28 air miles from downtown Columbus with a Class A signal. But try to get the owners to realize that when it comes to a "Columbus" signal, they have a turd floating in a swimming pool. They think the station is worth north of $2MM. What a joke.

Meanwhile Circleville- a city of 15,000 + in a decent size county has NO LOCAL RADIO station because 107.1 tries to play to Cbus.

Sean Gilbow said the asking price for WVKO-FM is $1.5 million, at least that was what
they were asking for it last December. I found that selling price surprising because I thought
they would want at least three to four million dollars for that signal. A JOKE of course, to
ask that kind of money but 1.5 million SEEMS MORE reasonable to me. Maybe Sean Gilbow can confirm this asking price here on this thread because he is a frequent visitor here. WHAT would be a FAIR asking price for WVKO-AM?

BTW, do any of you think 1.5 Million is TO much money for WVKO-AM 1580 AM?

http://edschultz.invisionzone.com/lofiversion/index.php/t46961.html

SeanMGilbow
Dec 20 2008, 07:21 PM
Cowtown Communications LLC is in negotiations to purchase WVKO-FM 103.1. According to the attorney negotiating the deal for Gary Richards (whose last day as GM for WVKO-AM 1580 will be Monday), the asking price is $1.5 million.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

103.1 is a Columbus market station only if you're in the northeast part of the area, with line of sight to Johnstown, and a good car radio.

Their only hope is to get someone to overpay for the thing. Maybe one of the religious operators wanting a "Columbus" signal? 103.1 isn't the kind of signal even K-Love/EMF will pick up...they're smarter than that. EMF does rimshots, but much better rimshots than 103.1. (re: 96.9/Wauseon, near Toledo, which at least puts a listenable signal over much of Toledo, and is now paired with 1520 AM and a translator at 104.1)

In the current economic environment, I'm not sure the thing is worth even seven figures, especially with much better rimshots on the horizon (WHIZ-FM, WNKO, etc.).

As far as talk goes:

Will 'TVN eventually land on 93.3? Perhaps.

The only problem I'm having is that Clear Channel doesn't have a history of doing AM/FM talk simulcasts. If they go (traditional) news/talk on FM, they go on FM (WPGB, KTLK). I find it hard to swallow the idea of them using that 610 signal - even with its nighttime directional issues in the southern end of the market - as a simulcast.

Same here in Cleveland, where none of the Clear Channel Cleveland FMs can outreach WTAM/1100, a 50 kW monster. A WTAM FM simulcast seems wasteful.

It may be the demographic issues that force these changes down the road, but I don't think we're there yet. I'm a big believer that major spoken word formats will have to plant an FM presence, but it's hard to argue that RIGHT NOW, that's a good move for either a WTVN or a WTAM.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

By the way, speaking of Gary Richards...I'm hearing rumblings that he's bringing his sports operation to Northeast Ohio, buying time for/selling some games on an AM up here.

 

[willcail]

I've no problem picking up 103.1, 107.1, and 104.3. WHIZ FM could benefit in not airing music but a talk format.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Just talk to anyone at one of those stations, and I can guarantee you one of the biggest complaints will be, "but I can't pick you up."

 

[Rusty Blades]

Meanwhile Circleville- a city of 15,000 + in a decent size county has NO LOCAL RADIO station because 107.1 tries to play to Cbus.

Circleville didn't care about having a local radio station when it had one (two, actually). The local businesses wouldn't advertise... Maybe because many of them knew that no one was listening. That's the problem with being so close to Columbus - in Circleville and Pickaway county, you can get most of the Columbus stations, plus several from Chillicothe. The same thing was true in Delaware, Marysville, London, Johnstown. To make it with a small town local radio station, you almost have to be far enough out in the sticks that you're not competing with the big city stations. Someplace like Waverly, Mt. Vernon, Marion etc.

 

[Bill Harmonic]

Just talk to anyone at one of those stations, and I can guarantee you one of the biggest complaints will be, "but I can't pick you up."

The first statement always is "I didn't know you were there". Then the second one is "I can't pick you up at (name place)".

 

[markbohach]

\

Meanwhile Circleville- a city of 15,000 + in a decent size county has NO LOCAL RADIO station because 107.1 tries to play to Cbus.

Circleville didn't care about having a local radio station when it had one (two, actually). The local businesses wouldn't advertise... Maybe because many of them knew that no one was listening. That's the problem with being so close to Columbus - in Circleville and Pickaway county, you can get most of the Columbus stations, plus several from Chillicothe. The same thing was true in Delaware, Marysville, London, Johnstown. To make it with a small town local radio station, you almost have to be far enough out in the sticks that you're not competing with the big city stations. Someplace like Waverly, Mt. Vernon, Marion etc.

With all due respect and speaking with a little experience on the subject- bullcrap!

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

\

Meanwhile Circleville- a city of 15,000 + in a decent size county has NO LOCAL RADIO station because 107.1 tries to play to Cbus.

Circleville didn't care about having a local radio station when it had one (two, actually). The local businesses wouldn't advertise... Maybe because many of them knew that no one was listening. That's the problem with being so close to Columbus - in Circleville and Pickaway county, you can get most of the Columbus stations, plus several from Chillicothe. The same thing was true in Delaware, Marysville, London, Johnstown. To make it with a small town local radio station, you almost have to be far enough out in the sticks that you're not competing with the big city stations. Someplace like Waverly, Mt. Vernon, Marion etc.

With all due respect and speaking with a little experience on the subject- bullcrap!

I would think population of the market and surrounding towns (including population in the direction FURTHER from Columbus) would certainly figure in, too.

 

[Rusty Blades]

\

Meanwhile Circleville- a city of 15,000 + in a decent size county has NO LOCAL RADIO station because 107.1 tries to play to Cbus.

Circleville didn't care about having a local radio station when it had one (two, actually). The local businesses wouldn't advertise... Maybe because many of them knew that no one was listening. That's the problem with being so close to Columbus - in Circleville and Pickaway county, you can get most of the Columbus stations, plus several from Chillicothe. The same thing was true in Delaware, Marysville, London, Johnstown. To make it with a small town local radio station, you almost have to be far enough out in the sticks that you're not competing with the big city stations. Someplace like Waverly, Mt. Vernon, Marion etc.

With all due respect and speaking with a little experience on the subject- bullcrap!

Why?

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

I can't speak for Mark, but...

It's a struggle all fairly-close-in signals have. Do you superserve the smaller area, or do you go for a piece of the big market bucks?

The problem is simple - some areas "listen up" in market size. Heck, the problem is not limited to the outer burbs that have become more identified with the Big City due to outward migration and commuting.

Even here in Northeast Ohio, the Canton market stations have to deal with "listening up" to Cleveland and Akron stations. In the Akron market, though there's a pretty healthy amount of in-market listening due to strong local operations, the big Cleveland stations are all over the ratings.

The question is: Do those folks in Outer New Suburbia identify with those cities where they moved, because it was "freeway close" to the big city, or are they "Big City Metro" people at heart?

Mr. Bohach has a very obvious interest in this topic, due to what his operation does. I do submit that despite the problems listed above, a well-run local operation can extract this listenership out of the "big city" migrants to some degree.

 

[markbohach]

I can't speak for Mark, but...

It's a struggle all fairly-close-in signals have. Do you superserve the smaller area, or do you go for a piece of the big market bucks?

The question is: Do those folks in Outer New Suburbia identify with those cities where they moved, because it was "freeway close" to the big city, or are they "Big City Metro" people at heart?

Mr. Bohach has a very obvious interest in this topic, due to what his operation does. I do submit that despite the problems listed above, a well-run local operation can extract this listenership out of the "big city" migrants to some degree.

This is a pretty good answer to the question- "why"

The term "superserve" pretty much sums it up. Do this and you will be successful.

But what does superserve mean exactly? It means realizing that we are NOT a big city station. The very things people complain about on this board are the things we aim to avoid- canned formats, lack of personality, lack of community involvement, etc.

In the next two weeks alone, we will provide coverage of The Millersport Sweetcorn Festival, The Hocking County Fair, The Backwoods Festival and at least three high school football games. Add to this the regular schedule of local talk shows covering everything from the blood shortage to our county's need for a new jail.

Will our broadcasts of these events and issues increase our cume, TSL or average quarter hour? I don't know. I don't care. I don't play those games. But I know that every one of these broadcasts is sponsored by cash paying advertisers.

Feel free to ask any of the over eighty advertising clients (the vast majority of them right here in Fairfield County) we have served in the past year why they advertise on our local radio station. Believe me, I am constantly asking this question.

Here are some typical responses: (that have become our selling points)

I can run a lot of commercials on your station for what a few cost on _____.

You guys cover Fairfield County. Nobody from Columbus is going to come to my business.

I want to spend my ad dollars locally. (dollars spent with our station stay in the county)

And my personal favorite- I just like what you do and we need to support that.

When we map out a commercial schedule for a prospective client, we try to give them enough spots to spread out across the entire broadcast week. We take into account that in order to give the advertiser a good reach, the frequency must be sufficient.

And we have built a very high loyalty factor among our advertising clients by doing the little things right. And do you honestly think any advertiser would spend money if they didn't see some tangible result?

To make a blanket statement that smaller community based stations inside metro areas cannot be successful is an insult to great operators like The Pricer and Franks Families in Newark and others I know around the state of Ohio.

 

[Rusty Blades]

To make a blanket statement that smaller community based stations inside metro areas cannot be successful is an insult to great operators like The Pricer and Franks Families in Newark and others I know around the state of Ohio.

But I didn't say they cannot be successful. What I said was, to be successful with a small town local station, you almost have to be far away from the influence of a major market. I'm aware of what you have done in Lancaster, and what the Pricers have done in Newark, but those are the exceptions. By and large, small town radio is as dead as disco. WUCO in Marysville has had half a dozen owners and not one of them made money with the station, in spite of Marysville being a very nice little city with a lot of local businesses. The other examples I referenced, WWWJ in Johnstown, WDLR in Delaware, 106.3 in London, and the late WNRE in Circleville all suffered the same fate. The local businesses there don't care about having local radio. They may say they care about it, but when it comes to spending money to support local radio, forget it.

 

[Nu_Roo_2]

Lancaster and Newark are a lot bigger than Delaware, Circleville or London.  Obviously size increases a town's chances of supporting a community-focused local station -- especially if it didn't grow beyond blip-town just by becoming a bedroom community for Columbus.  While size and community self-identity are prerequisites for success, the kinds of factors Mark cited become even more critical the closer the station is to Columbus.

 

[inquisitor]

Lancaster and Newark are a lot bigger than Delaware, Circleville or London. Obviously size increases a town's chances of supporting a community-focused local station -- especially if it didn't grow beyond blip-town just by becoming a bedroom community for Columbus. While size and community self-identity are prerequisites for success, the kinds of factors Mark cited become even more critical the closer the station is to Columbus.

Lancaster and Newark also have, for lack of a better term, a sense of self. They are far enough away and have traditionally seen themselves as separate from metro Columbus. They also always had enough critical mass in terms of people and businesses that one rarely had to leave the county for their purchases. I'm not sure that was the case with other surrounding counties. Another reason is that they have had active, locally based broadcasters who have beein involved in the long term as opposed to the other cities where the stations tended to get flipped a lot. In fact, wasn't Newark a separate radio market at one point?

As to WUCO, weren't Ron Barlow and Dave Barlow owners at one point. Dave is an aggressive salesman and if he couldn't make that station work ...

 

[markbohach]

Lancaster and Newark are a lot bigger than Delaware, Circleville or London. Obviously size increases a town's chances of supporting a community-focused local station -- especially if it didn't grow beyond blip-town just by becoming a bedroom community for Columbus. While size and community self-identity are prerequisites for success, the kinds of factors Mark cited become even more critical the closer the station is to Columbus.

Lancaster and Newark also have, for lack of a better term, a sense of self. They are far enough away and have traditionally seen themselves as separate from metro Columbus. They also always had enough critical mass in terms of people and businesses that one rarely had to leave the county for their purchases. I'm not sure that was the case with other surrounding counties. Another reason is that they have had active, locally based broadcasters who have beein involved in the long term as opposed to the other cities where the stations tended to get flipped a lot. In fact, wasn't Newark a separate radio market at one point?

As to WUCO, weren't Ron Barlow and Dave Barlow owners at one point. Dave is an aggressive salesman and if he couldn't make that station work ...

I simply don't believe there is a size of community cutoff of distance requirement from the metro (real or implied) that determines whether a local station can be successful or not. Let's look at the specific examples cited.

Circleville- just about as far removed from Columbus as Lancaster or Newark. Has a strong sense of local identity and pride. Think Circleville Pumpkin Show. It still has a very active and attractive downtown area and a huge agricultural base. Nelson Embrey's WNRE operated locally for about 25 years as a local station.

Marysville- Also lies about twenty miles from the metro. As mentioned before, Marysville has a strong local business base. In the Jack Frost days, WUCO covered the community and made a profit. (I saw the books and was assisting a potential buyer make an offer on the station)

Delaware- probably the most urbanized due to it's route 23 corridor. However, Jim Shaheen made it work as a local station for many years.

Johnstown- the old 3WJ was a good sounding station that served the communities in it's primary contour- Johnstown, Mt Vernon, Newark.

Has radio changed in the past twenty years? Yes. And these towns have likely lost their local radio stations forever. But I contend that it wasn't due to lack of local advertising dollars as much as the gleam of the big city and the potential to make bigger dollars that drew these stations away.

 

[del_griffith]

I can't speak for Mark, but...

It's a struggle all fairly-close-in signals have. Do you superserve the smaller area, or do you go for a piece of the big market bucks?

The question is: Do those folks in Outer New Suburbia identify with those cities where they moved, because it was "freeway close" to the big city, or are they "Big City Metro" people at heart?

Mr. Bohach has a very obvious interest in this topic, due to what his operation does. I do submit that despite the problems listed above, a well-run local operation can extract this listenership out of the "big city" migrants to some degree.

This is a pretty good answer to the question- "why"

The term "superserve" pretty much sums it up. Do this and you will be successful.

But what does superserve mean exactly? It means realizing that we are NOT a big city station. The very things people complain about on this board are the things we aim to avoid- canned formats, lack of personality, lack of community involvement, etc.

In the next two weeks alone, we will provide coverage of The Millersport Sweetcorn Festival, The Hocking County Fair, The Backwoods Festival and at least three high school football games. Add to this the regular schedule of local talk shows covering everything from the blood shortage to our county's need for a new jail.

Will our broadcasts of these events and issues increase our cume, TSL or average quarter hour? I don't know. I don't care. I don't play those games. But I know that every one of these broadcasts is sponsored by cash paying advertisers.

Feel free to ask any of the over eighty advertising clients (the vast majority of them right here in Fairfield County) we have served in the past year why they advertise on our local radio station. Believe me, I am constantly asking this question.

Here are some typical responses: (that have become our selling points)

I can run a lot of commercials on your station for what a few cost on _____.

You guys cover Fairfield County. Nobody from Columbus is going to come to my business.

I want to spend my ad dollars locally. (dollars spent with our station stay in the county)

And my personal favorite- I just like what you do and we need to support that.

When we map out a commercial schedule for a prospective client, we try to give them enough spots to spread out across the entire broadcast week. We take into account that in order to give the advertiser a good reach, the frequency must be sufficient.

And we have built a very high loyalty factor among our advertising clients by doing the little things right. And do you honestly think any advertiser would spend money if they didn't see some tangible result?

To make a blanket statement that smaller community based stations inside metro areas cannot be successful is an insult to great operators like The Pricer and Franks Families in Newark and others I know around the state of Ohio.

There is one word missing in all of the above reasons businesses are advertising.

RESULTS.

Sense of community, supporting what you do, supporting the kids (IE sports) are all great motivators to advertise. Sympathy buy. But what about results. People walking through the door fopr the first time or a repeat time because they wre reminded that Joe's Flower Shop is in business. People calling on the phone and placing an order. How do you quantify the results?

I just had the conversation of what local markets really work (read viable) where the advertiser has strong results from their ad dollar which means sustainability, and Newark, Mount Vernon and Bellefontaine came to mind. Great local operators for two of the three markets. At one time, Marion could have been added to the list. I believe they are billing less now than almost 20 years ago (and that was before the economic fall) when it was just an AM/FM rather than an AM/FM/FM. Yes, Jim Shaheen had a great run early on in his station. Toward the end before he allowed it to go dark, the numbers were pretty bad. Sure, he started focusing on the FM (Easy 108) because that's where the money was. But he had already gone to auction advertising before the FM made it's debut because spot sales was getting harder and harder. People weren't seeing people come through the door, despite great local news and his community coverage.

 

[markbohach]

[/quote]

There is one word missing in all of the above reasons businesses are advertising.

RESULTS.

Sense of community, supporting what you do, supporting the kids (IE sports) are all great motivators to advertise. Sympathy buy. But what about results. People walking through the door fopr the first time or a repeat time because they wre reminded that Joe's Flower Shop is in business. People calling on the phone and placing an order. How do you quantify the results?

I just had the conversation of what local markets really work (read viable) where the advertiser has strong results from their ad dollar which means sustainability, and Newark, Mount Vernon and Bellefontaine came to mind. Great local operators for two of the three markets. At one time, Marion could have been added to the list. I believe they are billing less now than almost 20 years ago (and that was before the economic fall) when it was just an AM/FM rather than an AM/FM/FM. Yes, Jim Shaheen had a great run early on in his station. Toward the end before he allowed it to go dark, the numbers were pretty bad. Sure, he started focusing on the FM (Easy 108) because that's where the money was. But he had already gone to auction advertising before the FM made it's debut because spot sales was getting harder and harder. People weren't seeing people come through the door, despite great local news and his community coverage.
[/quote]


Del,

You are absolutely correct. Without a positive outcome from their advertising a business will not be a client for long.
However, that positive outcome is different for each advertiser.

This is where "selling advertising" separates from building a client relationship. It starts by understanding what the advertiser is looking for and to educate them on how advertising- all forms not just radio really works. We never talk negatively about any form of advertising. Each method works differently but all are effective to some extent. We also never try to become the exclusive medium of advertising for a client. Just like radio stations use billboards and TV to attract listeners, other advertisers should also mix their ad dolars.

But back to results. Are they looking to have twenty new people walk through the door this week. Or are they looking for a way to differentiate themselves from their competition when the potential customer looks them up in the yellow pages. There are so many variables and dynamics when working with local business people. I have actually told a business or two that our station wasn't the right advertising media for their business. This usually happens when they insist on saying things like- mention this ad and get 10% off. This is the kiss of death for radio. (for many reasons I won't get into here) I tell them that the best vehicle for that type of ad is print- run a coupon.

In the end, it still comes down to the basics. Under promise and over deliver. Think beyond the commercial and add value. Tell the whole truth. And turn opposition into opportunity- "yes that is correct- we reduce power at sunset. So none of your paid spots will air after 7PM. We'll bonus them at night."

I'd go on but I have to go sell some s**t now.

 

[xiradiodotcom]

So we are about 2 weeks from the CP deadline and no sign of 102.5 in Columbus yet. Anyone have any updates?

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_det.pl?Application_id=1287095