104.1 KTCG’s HD Radio

[Deleted member 76036]

I’ve noticed that 104.1 KTCG’s HD Radio signal is incredibly strong all across the metroplex. It’s been this way since they flipped it on. I can be anywhere from Fort Worth to Dallas to Grand Prairie and one of the analog translators in those areas is strong with RDS and all the sudden KTCG’s HD signal will take over. It’s not just during tropospheric ducting, but all the time! And just to be clear, KTCG’s HD isn’t solid, but will stay locked in certain areas.

Just curious, when a station decides to go HD, can they always operate at a certain percentage of the analog transmitter’s power? Or in cases when there are so many translators on the same frequency or other stations to where the HD could cause issues, will the FCC say they have to operate HD at reduced power?

If I was one of the many translators on 104.1, I’d kind of be upset that KTCG’s HD ended up the way it is…

 

[Deleted member 108832]

Ok, so can you clarify a little further for me here. The setup for Radio Caravan that I am familiar with is 104.1 KTCG, which operates from the tower on FM 922 just east of Valley View, coupled with 700 KHSE and then relayed to 104.1 K281CS McKinney. You mentioned "many translators" on the co-channel with KTCG, but I'm only familiar with the one in McKinney that is O&O with KHSE and KTCG. If Radio Caravan's HD signal is overtaking the analog signal from their own translator broadcasting identical programming, that doesn't seem like a problem, other than if the analog from the translator and the HD from the main aren't synced. That would, indeed, make for some rough listening. It does seem peculiar that it would blanket the Metroplex, as the digital signal shouldn't reach further south than Corinth at best. I believe the HD can run 10% power of the analog of KTCG, which would be 620 watts. That percentage may have been allowed to be increased and I just don't know about it, Chris. We don't use digital. About the only HD signal around here is on KTYK owned by LSU-Shreveport, and much like you stated is happening with KTCG, the analog signal will be struggling in Tyler, but then the HD will suddenly take over and it's crystal clear across town. Once it locks, it stays locked.

If the interference you're talking about is happening to those LPFM's scattered across the Metroplex that are running Spanish religious programming on channel 281 and KTCG is interfering with them, or even obliterating them altogether, the LPFM is flat out of luck. Radio Caravan operates from a licensed C3 which always takes precedence over any low power operation. There's nothing KEJC-LP, KZGP-LP or KWRJ-LP can do about it, other than to apply for a change in channel.

 

[Deleted member 76036]

I can get Radio Caravan’s HD in downtown Dallas, Grand Prairie on a normal basis. I’ve even received it west of Fort Worth on I-20 and there was no tropospheric ducting happening at the time. I just looked at the picture I took when I received it west of Fort Worth was geotagged for Aledo, TX.

From my experience, their HD signal gets out quite a bit further than their analog. I understand that the C3 takes precedence over LPFM’s, but it seems odd to me that KTCG’s HD is operating in this manner. Most of the time when I hear the HD, there is absolutely no presence of the analog.

 

[Deleted member 108832]

Yeah, something ain't right. Like I mentioned previously, you shouldn't be locking HD south of Corinth or, say, Little Elm. I would believe the digital signal is locking in over top of K281CS's analog transmission in McKinney, but not in downtown Dallas or west of Ft. Worth. To me, that would certainly be justification for one of the LP outfits to cry foul and lodge a complaint.

 

[Deleted member 76036]

I mean, I could understand if this was happening during tropo, but it’s not. I can get it to lock where I live in Grand Prairie (near 161 and I-20) on a daily basis. Granted, it doesn’t stay locked for very long. I’ll sometimes eat at King Buffet in Dallas and the HD starts to become solid near the Loop 12/183 interchange in Irving.

I was just curious about this. Thanks for your response and expertise!

 

[LibertyNT]

I think it may be running a bit hot.

 

[Kent]

Just curious, when a station decides to go HD, can they always operate at a certain percentage of the analog transmitter’s power? Or in cases when there are so many translators on the same frequency or other stations to where the HD could cause issues, will the FCC say they have to operate HD at reduced power?

My understanding is that the up to 10% of analog power for HD is done on a case-by-case basis, though that could've changed since I'd last read the rules. I don't keep up with that side of the business much as I'm not an engineer. I was supposed to become a broadcast engineer 20 years ago, but that's another story for another time.

If I was one of the many translators on 104.1, I’d kind of be upset that KTCG’s HD ended up the way it is…

I've heard of distant HD signals overpowering local analog signals, though that's usually during times of ducting and/or skip. So, what you're experiencing is definitely possible. Not sure how digital signals are factored into whether or not translators can operate. I suspect, however, that the translators don't know that's happening as the average listener using an analog radio shouldn't notice the digital signal. I understand digital hash can sometimes interfere with analog reception, but I wouldn't think that would be a problem that far from the transmitter.

 

[Deleted member 76036]

I think 104.1 KTCG’s HD wins the award for being the strongest in the market, relative to their analog signal. 107.1 KESS wins the award for having the weakest HD signal, relative to their analog.

Because the data that makes HD work is on the sidebands of the frequency, any station that doesn’t run HD, even full powered stations, are susceptible to having this happen. I’ve had HD take over analog stations on numerous occasions, but this has always been during times of moderate to heavy tropospheric ducting. I remember one time a couple of years ago when I was driving south on Loop 12 and getting close to I-20 when 90.1 KUCO’s HD overtook 90.1 KERA.

Going back to 104.1, for those who have HD Radio in their vehicles and are wanting to listen to the LPFM’s, this can sometimes be difficult. With many vehicles, the option to turn off HD Radio is buried in the settings. Fortunately with my vehicle, there’s an on/off button on the main screen. This is another reason why it’s so important to have the HD/analog audio synced. Listening in fringe areas to a station that doesn’t have their audio synced can be messy. I think the only station right now that isn’t synced at all in DFW is 101.1 WRR. I sent them an email about it a couple weeks ago, but it still hasn’t been fixed.

 

[Deleted member 108832]

107.1 KESS wins the award for having the weakest HD signal, relative to their analog.

That's interesting. KESS and KDXX are typically the first two to lock in HD here in Tyler when the conditions are favorable. I rarely get an HD lock on many of the iHeart Cedar Hill signals such as KDMX, KDGE or KZPS. WRR HD does better this far east than most.

Because the data that makes HD work is on the sidebands of the frequency, any station that doesn’t run HD, even full powered stations, are susceptible to having this happen. I’ve had HD take over analog stations on numerous occasions, but this has always been during times of moderate to heavy tropospheric ducting. I remember one time a couple of years ago when I was driving south on Loop 12 and getting close to I-20 when 90.1 KUCO’s HD overtook 90.1 KERA.

Going back to 104.1, for those who have HD Radio in their vehicles and are wanting to listen to the LPFM’s, this can sometimes be difficult. With many vehicles, the option to turn off HD Radio is buried in the settings. Fortunately with my vehicle, there’s an on/off button on the main screen. This is another reason why it’s so important to have the HD/analog audio synced. Listening in fringe areas to a station that doesn’t have their audio synced can be messy. I think the only station right now that isn’t synced at all in DFW is 101.1 WRR. I sent them an email about it a couple weeks ago, but it still hasn’t been fixed.

Right on. Not that I'm an avid listener to Where Radio Radiates, but the delay being addressed would likely be appreciated by those who travel around the outskirts of the market and deal with it bouncing back and forth as it does currently.