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104.3....Waiting......
- Thread starter Bongwater
- Start date
B
BurntOutRadio
Guest
I think 104.1 in Portland may preclude them from upgrading.
I tried the 104.1 FM signal from KAFE the other day in Edmonds and Shoreline, and it seems to be a bit stronger than it used to be in "the bowl" area near the Edmonds waterfront (where many Canadian and Olympia-area signals come in while many Seattle ones are multipathed to the point of being hard to listen to). KAFE is strong enough that it bleeds over onto 104.3 on my car radio, making CHHR hard to find now (it used to come in faintly, but regularly, when it was on 104.1, but with some splatter from KAFE). Harder to get now, but if you're really looking for it, you can still find "the Shore" faintly it in some places in the near north suburbs of Seattle. But KAFE remains the big signal north of Seattle, but I'm guessing it will still have some multipath issues in Everett and elsewhere along I-5, as it used to when it was on 104.3.
I made a bandscan of what I got at the Mukilteo waterfront on a boating trip, heading up the hill. Some I forgot, this was in July.
87.7: CHEK Victoria, BC
88.1: K201AB Seattle, WA (KPLU)/K201EN Everett, WA (Effect)
88.5: KPLU Tacoma, WA
88.9: CBUX-FM1 Victoria, BC loud
89.1: God **** translators!
89.3: Forgot about this
89.5: KNHC Seattle, WA
89.7: KMWS Mount Vernon, WA and probably a translator or KWFJ Roy, forgot about this, I thought I had two things on 89.7?
90.1: probably KNWP Port Angeles
90.3: KEXP Seattle
90.5: forgot, maybe CBCV was in?
90.7: KSER Everett
91.1: K216EN Mount Vernon, WA (KPLU)
91.3: KBCS Bellevue
91.5: forgot this, but when we were on the boat around Langley KSQM Sequim came in
91.7: KXOT Tacoma, WA and probably KSVR Mount Vernon, WA
91.9: forgot, but was probably translators!
92.1: CBU-FM1 Victoria, LOUD!
92.5: KQMV Seattle
92.9: KISM Bellingham
93.3: KUBE Seattle
93.7: CJJR Vancouver, BC
94.1: KMPS Seattle
94.5: CFBT Vancouver mostly alone
94.9: KUOW Seattle
95.3: CKZZ Vancouver
95.7: KJR Seattle
96.1: KXXO Olympia, but a few miles north on the boat CHKG Vancouver and KXXO were fighting
96.5: KJAQ Seattle
96.9: CKLG Vancouver
97.3: KIRO Tacoma
97.7: KOMO Oakville, WA + CBUF Vancouver on the boat
98.1: KING Seattle
98.5: CIOC Victoria
98.9; KWJZ Seattle
99.3: KDDS Elma, WA and CFOX Vancouver, BC
99.7: CBUF-FM9 Victoria
99.9: KISW Seattle
100.3: CKKQ Victoria, local station over there with RDS
100.5: IBOC, on the boat it would Be CKPK Vancouver, BC
100.7: KKWF Seattle, pretty staticky
101.1: CFMI Vancouver, BC
101.5: KPLZ Seattle
102.1: K271AH Camano Island, WA (KBRC)
102.5: KZOK Seattle, WA
102.9: KNBQ Centralia
103.1: CHTT Victoria, BC
103.3: KMTT's Downtown Seattle translator
103.5: CHQM Vancouver (OVER the IBOC!)
103.7: KMTT Seattle
104.3: KAFE Bellingham (this was in July)
104.5: KMCQ Covington
104.9: CKCL-FM2 Vancouver (now CFUN-FM2)
105.3: KCMS Edmonds, WA
105.7: CBU Vancouver
106.1: KBKS Tacoma, WA
106.5: KWPZ Lynden, WA
106.9: KRWM Seattle
107.3: CHBE Victoria
107.7: KNDD Seattle
So, you can see a moderate change of station, especially 103.5, which is all IBOC junk here in Bothell, but up in Mukilteo is CHQM.
-crainbebo
87.7: CHEK Victoria, BC
88.1: K201AB Seattle, WA (KPLU)/K201EN Everett, WA (Effect)
88.5: KPLU Tacoma, WA
88.9: CBUX-FM1 Victoria, BC loud
89.1: God **** translators!
89.3: Forgot about this
89.5: KNHC Seattle, WA
89.7: KMWS Mount Vernon, WA and probably a translator or KWFJ Roy, forgot about this, I thought I had two things on 89.7?
90.1: probably KNWP Port Angeles
90.3: KEXP Seattle
90.5: forgot, maybe CBCV was in?
90.7: KSER Everett
91.1: K216EN Mount Vernon, WA (KPLU)
91.3: KBCS Bellevue
91.5: forgot this, but when we were on the boat around Langley KSQM Sequim came in
91.7: KXOT Tacoma, WA and probably KSVR Mount Vernon, WA
91.9: forgot, but was probably translators!
92.1: CBU-FM1 Victoria, LOUD!
92.5: KQMV Seattle
92.9: KISM Bellingham
93.3: KUBE Seattle
93.7: CJJR Vancouver, BC
94.1: KMPS Seattle
94.5: CFBT Vancouver mostly alone
94.9: KUOW Seattle
95.3: CKZZ Vancouver
95.7: KJR Seattle
96.1: KXXO Olympia, but a few miles north on the boat CHKG Vancouver and KXXO were fighting
96.5: KJAQ Seattle
96.9: CKLG Vancouver
97.3: KIRO Tacoma
97.7: KOMO Oakville, WA + CBUF Vancouver on the boat
98.1: KING Seattle
98.5: CIOC Victoria
98.9; KWJZ Seattle
99.3: KDDS Elma, WA and CFOX Vancouver, BC
99.7: CBUF-FM9 Victoria
99.9: KISW Seattle
100.3: CKKQ Victoria, local station over there with RDS
100.5: IBOC, on the boat it would Be CKPK Vancouver, BC
100.7: KKWF Seattle, pretty staticky
101.1: CFMI Vancouver, BC
101.5: KPLZ Seattle
102.1: K271AH Camano Island, WA (KBRC)
102.5: KZOK Seattle, WA
102.9: KNBQ Centralia
103.1: CHTT Victoria, BC
103.3: KMTT's Downtown Seattle translator
103.5: CHQM Vancouver (OVER the IBOC!)
103.7: KMTT Seattle
104.3: KAFE Bellingham (this was in July)
104.5: KMCQ Covington
104.9: CKCL-FM2 Vancouver (now CFUN-FM2)
105.3: KCMS Edmonds, WA
105.7: CBU Vancouver
106.1: KBKS Tacoma, WA
106.5: KWPZ Lynden, WA
106.9: KRWM Seattle
107.3: CHBE Victoria
107.7: KNDD Seattle
So, you can see a moderate change of station, especially 103.5, which is all IBOC junk here in Bothell, but up in Mukilteo is CHQM.
-crainbebo
Hey, Jensen. You are free to read in whatever words you wish in the prior post from crainbebo describing 89.1 as "***," but you also need to realize that Calvary Chapel of Twin Falls, Idaho found a loophole that Low Power FM advocates were denied during the Bush administrations' reign over the FCC to establish a NATIONAL network of 100 watt translators in hundreds of cities across the US. Since when does anybody get to do that? Since they and EMF from California started doing it, and stepping all over the coverage area of other stations in the non-comm band. They snuck in on a technicality, use 100 watts at often full power tower heights, and no one wants to fight them off to make them pay for a satellite radio channel instead of messing up the FM dial. Their 20 miles coverage area or so also means another 20 miles or so of coverage loss and interference to other broadcasters licensed to those frequencies (been there and will be glad to tell you about it if you like).
ALso, their presence makes for unfair competition for locally based religious broadcasters (I've worked for several in my time). 89.1 has a chain of repeaters on that frequency from Bainbridge to Mt Vernon, essentially creating a class B FM signal from at least three transmitter sites in adjacent communities along Puget Sound. Clever as a fox? More like sneaky like a weasel. For repeating a station that's hundreds of miles away in another state.
And as for "positive" programming, I heard them in late November breaking the rules of non-commercial broadcasting by advocating their listeners to call a number to Congress that they gave, with instructions to tell their Congressperson and other reps to vote against the health care reform measures that were being debated. The station's spot, complete with urgent music, said it was imperative to stop health care reform because it would mean the death of miliions of babies due to "free abortion on demand."
Not only were their claims completely untrue (abortion services were not covered by federal dollars in the bills being debated), it was also an actionable breach of noncommercial radio rules, and they deserve to lose those licenses over it. Or at least be fined heavily. But they'll cry "religious persecution" over it, misrepresent themselves as martyrs, get their republican buddies to make trouble for anyone who brings it up, and generally stir up enough **** (your choice of word) to distract people from their own violations of FCC Non-comm rules to make a lot of lawyers wealthy and everybody else sick.
So, please take a closer look at what the small priviledged group of "christian" businessmen have gotten away with by abusing the requirements of FM translators (but getting in on a technicality), and the unfair competition they cause for local broadcasters like KCIS, etc.
Would that we all could have a widespread network of 100 watt FM transmitters across dozens of states to advocate for our own beliefs and business interests. That's what the internet and satellite are for, not local FM transmitters.
That's why I suspect the other poster chose to call that station's signal ****, whatever that means.
ALso, their presence makes for unfair competition for locally based religious broadcasters (I've worked for several in my time). 89.1 has a chain of repeaters on that frequency from Bainbridge to Mt Vernon, essentially creating a class B FM signal from at least three transmitter sites in adjacent communities along Puget Sound. Clever as a fox? More like sneaky like a weasel. For repeating a station that's hundreds of miles away in another state.
And as for "positive" programming, I heard them in late November breaking the rules of non-commercial broadcasting by advocating their listeners to call a number to Congress that they gave, with instructions to tell their Congressperson and other reps to vote against the health care reform measures that were being debated. The station's spot, complete with urgent music, said it was imperative to stop health care reform because it would mean the death of miliions of babies due to "free abortion on demand."
Not only were their claims completely untrue (abortion services were not covered by federal dollars in the bills being debated), it was also an actionable breach of noncommercial radio rules, and they deserve to lose those licenses over it. Or at least be fined heavily. But they'll cry "religious persecution" over it, misrepresent themselves as martyrs, get their republican buddies to make trouble for anyone who brings it up, and generally stir up enough **** (your choice of word) to distract people from their own violations of FCC Non-comm rules to make a lot of lawyers wealthy and everybody else sick.
So, please take a closer look at what the small priviledged group of "christian" businessmen have gotten away with by abusing the requirements of FM translators (but getting in on a technicality), and the unfair competition they cause for local broadcasters like KCIS, etc.
Would that we all could have a widespread network of 100 watt FM transmitters across dozens of states to advocate for our own beliefs and business interests. That's what the internet and satellite are for, not local FM transmitters.
That's why I suspect the other poster chose to call that station's signal ****, whatever that means.
The commission should make at least three rule changes:
1) require non-commercial licensees to follow the same rules as commercial rules regarding FM translators
2) stop handing out main studio waivers like candy
3) abide by the intent of the LPFM rules and disallow non-fill-in translators for LPFM
While Calvary Chapel operates a gazillion translators, EMF (K-LUV) operates hundreds of fullpower FMs under local studio waivers. The commission wants to tighten up on local orgination by commercial stations, but meanwhile these operators have no local origination ability in hundreds of markets.
EMFs KLOP Ocean Park will operate as a full Class C, with 89 KW, with a 60 dBu contour that hits most of Seattle, while operating under a main studio waiver due to "financial hardship". This has to be the ultimate kick in the face for not only commercial broadcasters, but Crista Ministries as well.
The alternative would be to allow commercial broadcasters to operate chains of translators, satellite feeds, and willy nilly main studio waivers.
1) require non-commercial licensees to follow the same rules as commercial rules regarding FM translators
2) stop handing out main studio waivers like candy
3) abide by the intent of the LPFM rules and disallow non-fill-in translators for LPFM
While Calvary Chapel operates a gazillion translators, EMF (K-LUV) operates hundreds of fullpower FMs under local studio waivers. The commission wants to tighten up on local orgination by commercial stations, but meanwhile these operators have no local origination ability in hundreds of markets.
EMFs KLOP Ocean Park will operate as a full Class C, with 89 KW, with a 60 dBu contour that hits most of Seattle, while operating under a main studio waiver due to "financial hardship". This has to be the ultimate kick in the face for not only commercial broadcasters, but Crista Ministries as well.
The alternative would be to allow commercial broadcasters to operate chains of translators, satellite feeds, and willy nilly main studio waivers.
I was chewing on this yesterday ... and wondering if (and this assumes the FCC would be capable of once again growing a spine) there might be some kind of "guideline formula" we work toward:
A market of "x" size could support "y" AM and "z" FM stations.
Of those ... "s" stations should be local origination and some degree of news, emergency info, etc.
"t" stations allocated to non-comm/education (and, as Bill says, must ADHERE to specific rules)
"u" stations for LPFM-type coverage .. a specific community. if they want bigger coverage, use the 'net stream and pay the corresponding licenses.
"v" stations then available for syndication, repeaters, etc. If they are full-up, then no syndication room left in that market.
If the station violates their intended purpose (e.g. the local-origination becomes all syndicated voice track) then buh-bye license. That way the "free-for-all" stations are taking a back seat to those which serve the community interest (non-comm, LPFM, local). At that point, who cares if they are viable or what they broadcast ... it's the syndicator's problem to make it work. Salem, for example, isn't exactly having a cake walk with that challenge.
A market of "x" size could support "y" AM and "z" FM stations.
Of those ... "s" stations should be local origination and some degree of news, emergency info, etc.
"t" stations allocated to non-comm/education (and, as Bill says, must ADHERE to specific rules)
"u" stations for LPFM-type coverage .. a specific community. if they want bigger coverage, use the 'net stream and pay the corresponding licenses.
"v" stations then available for syndication, repeaters, etc. If they are full-up, then no syndication room left in that market.
If the station violates their intended purpose (e.g. the local-origination becomes all syndicated voice track) then buh-bye license. That way the "free-for-all" stations are taking a back seat to those which serve the community interest (non-comm, LPFM, local). At that point, who cares if they are viable or what they broadcast ... it's the syndicator's problem to make it work. Salem, for example, isn't exactly having a cake walk with that challenge.
The random "I got it first" approach to broadcasting allocations in the US are probably part of the problem the medium is perceived as little more than background noise by most listeners. Inefficient use of spectrum is just part of the outcome. The wave after NAB-sponsored wave of deregulation stole a substantial part of an industry from its employees and "privatized" the public airwaves beyond the public contract established (and rarely enforced now) by the FCC. Not that it was anywhere close to perfect public-service-that-makes-a-profit years ago. But I think too many stations in a market waters down the content, hence a lack of focus when one person has to program 5 signals, and resources spiral down, to have the level of hosting and news each market had 20 years ago.
Despite their faults, at least the Canadian CRTC regulators require a certain degree of addressing a specific mission for each radio broadcaster. They may be slow to fill up their dials, but the country's substantial "minority" populations, ethnic and otherwise, at least get something to listen to once in a while.
I think the big corporate commercial guys should be glad to have about half of a market's alllocations reserved for uses that don't directly compete with their own economic model. But it means giving up some viable signals for someone else.
I think designated minority services should exist, and reflect a market's demographic make up. For instance, why is Anchorage the only city with a Native-American owned and formatted station (a noncommerical AAA music outlet, with some national Native talk and music shows)? There's a good chance such a station would have a hard time making budget if they had to rely on the same funding mechanism as the commercial stations. But there is enough money in many Tribal corporations now that a full powered Native AAA music and info station can be one of the types of stations that Seattle should have, inh my opinion, to better reflect not only its Native populations, but everyone else who appreciates the region's heritage and wants a chance to hear more about it on the radio.
Punjabi, Korean, Chinese, gay-lesbian, African-American, arts aficianados, over-55, and other populations don't really have much of a voice, if any, on the Seattle dial. Threre are some good outlets. Why not a few more, where commercial oerators complain they still can't make a buck? Why don't they deserve airtime, and not just on a 100 watt neighborhood station, so that it can reach out far enough to serve its targeted audiences. Reassign one or four of those FMs the corporations don't want to spend any money on, and that will leave only, what, 5 classic rock and 3 country outlets audible in Seattle?
And maybe some of these stations won't be economically viable for more than a few years? But who's to say all of the current ones are??
I think a limit to a license term, and an actual chance it gets reassigned to someone else, and not for politcal reasons, would motivate more broadcasters to try to reach unserved audiences and interests. And don't suggest to me that fundamentalist christians and tea-bagger republicans are the only "minority" audiences in Seattle. They can each have a station (or, really, aren't they pretty much the same thing now). But they should not control more than half of the AM dial!
The unregulated marketplace only works when it's "a marketplace of ideas," as Jefferson originally referenced, or when you own (or, in radio broadcasters' case, are given a stall). Doesn't seem to be any room for anyone else to set up shop on the air anymore and inject some vitality onto the air, here and around the USA. And the radio industry is weak because of it.
If the only restaurants your town has are McDonalds, burger King, and Wendy's, don't think you've "got it all." You mght like fried hamgurgers every day, but there's plenty of others who don't and, therefore, are not even walking into your marketplace.
Despite their faults, at least the Canadian CRTC regulators require a certain degree of addressing a specific mission for each radio broadcaster. They may be slow to fill up their dials, but the country's substantial "minority" populations, ethnic and otherwise, at least get something to listen to once in a while.
I think the big corporate commercial guys should be glad to have about half of a market's alllocations reserved for uses that don't directly compete with their own economic model. But it means giving up some viable signals for someone else.
I think designated minority services should exist, and reflect a market's demographic make up. For instance, why is Anchorage the only city with a Native-American owned and formatted station (a noncommerical AAA music outlet, with some national Native talk and music shows)? There's a good chance such a station would have a hard time making budget if they had to rely on the same funding mechanism as the commercial stations. But there is enough money in many Tribal corporations now that a full powered Native AAA music and info station can be one of the types of stations that Seattle should have, inh my opinion, to better reflect not only its Native populations, but everyone else who appreciates the region's heritage and wants a chance to hear more about it on the radio.
Punjabi, Korean, Chinese, gay-lesbian, African-American, arts aficianados, over-55, and other populations don't really have much of a voice, if any, on the Seattle dial. Threre are some good outlets. Why not a few more, where commercial oerators complain they still can't make a buck? Why don't they deserve airtime, and not just on a 100 watt neighborhood station, so that it can reach out far enough to serve its targeted audiences. Reassign one or four of those FMs the corporations don't want to spend any money on, and that will leave only, what, 5 classic rock and 3 country outlets audible in Seattle?
And maybe some of these stations won't be economically viable for more than a few years? But who's to say all of the current ones are??
I think a limit to a license term, and an actual chance it gets reassigned to someone else, and not for politcal reasons, would motivate more broadcasters to try to reach unserved audiences and interests. And don't suggest to me that fundamentalist christians and tea-bagger republicans are the only "minority" audiences in Seattle. They can each have a station (or, really, aren't they pretty much the same thing now). But they should not control more than half of the AM dial!
The unregulated marketplace only works when it's "a marketplace of ideas," as Jefferson originally referenced, or when you own (or, in radio broadcasters' case, are given a stall). Doesn't seem to be any room for anyone else to set up shop on the air anymore and inject some vitality onto the air, here and around the USA. And the radio industry is weak because of it.
If the only restaurants your town has are McDonalds, burger King, and Wendy's, don't think you've "got it all." You mght like fried hamgurgers every day, but there's plenty of others who don't and, therefore, are not even walking into your marketplace.
B
BurntOutRadio
Guest
Yeah, I am sure there a lot of smart businessmen that are going to pay big bucks to get a frequency for a few years and then spend a bunch of money promoting it, build studios, hire staff and then have to give the license up to someone else in a few years. That would be like getting a McDonalds franchise and then having to give it up in a set number of years. Not sure many smart people would care much for that.
Goldilocks94941 said:
Right on Goldilocks! I agree the people who suffer the worst from these Calvary Chapel/EMF interlopers are locally owned and operated Christian radio stations.
EMF claims their local studio waiver for KLOP is because of "financial hardship" - what a GIANT crock of ****! This "ministry" rakes in millions off gullible people (blind faith believers) and convinces another group of gullible people (government officials) that they have "financial hardships".
In WHAT? Doing what a zillion other LOCAL sources are already doing? Who's services are NOT NEEDED HERE ANYWAY? Crista does a fine job here anyway and there's no reason these bandwith hogs need to be here. End of discussion.
They need to stay back in Twin Falls and herd their own damn sheep.......
I wasn't making a comment on "local fm stations" and who should own them and if it's Bush's fault. "The Effect", on the station that started this part of the thread, provides somthing that is, otherwise, not availble in the area. I didn't like the comment. The other 90+% of the dial won't talk about God. Everyone can settle down.
jensenbay said:
We still don't need them. Because these stations are on the non-commercial portion 88.1 - 91.9 MHz portion of the FM band and that needs to be reserved strictly for LOCAL educational and community stations. What's so educational (or Christian) about wasting valuable local radio frequencies to nationwide networks of satcasters when local groups can do a far more relevant job?
There needs to be NO 24 hour national or statewide feeds on these frequencies (which is why I'm every bit as critical of WSU's Northwest Public Radio repeaters everywhere for the same reason as I loathe the CSN/EMF stations.) The internet can fill in most terrestrial coverage gaps - and then some. Use it.
What we need are more INDEPENDENT stations, bringing more fresh, unique voices and programming to the airwaves. And there's a lot of them out there.
There could be more. These days, we need ALL the radio variety we can get.....
All these LP stations have done for me is cause interference to other stations. So now I can't listen to Canadian stations or any other distant stations. And the LP stations don't come in either. So my listening options are less now than a few years ago. Most of these LP stations are no alternative anyway.
Amen to that Bong!
Bongwater wrote:
"We still don't need them. Because these stations are on the non-commercial portion 88.1 - 91.9 MHz portion of the FM band and that needs to be reserved strictly for LOCAL educational and community stations. What's so educational (or Christian) about wasting valuable local radio frequencies to nationwide networks of satcasters when local groups can do a far more relevant job?
There needs to be NO 24 hour national or statewide feeds on these frequencies (which is why I'm every bit as critical of WSU's Northwest Public Radio repeaters everywhere for the same reason as I loathe the CSN/EMF stations.) The internet can fill in most terrestrial coverage gaps - and then some. Use it.
What we need are more INDEPENDENT stations, bringing more fresh, unique voices and programming to the airwaves. And there's a lot of them out there.
There could be more. These days, we need ALL the radio variety we can get.....
[/quote]
Bongwater wrote:
"We still don't need them. Because these stations are on the non-commercial portion 88.1 - 91.9 MHz portion of the FM band and that needs to be reserved strictly for LOCAL educational and community stations. What's so educational (or Christian) about wasting valuable local radio frequencies to nationwide networks of satcasters when local groups can do a far more relevant job?
There needs to be NO 24 hour national or statewide feeds on these frequencies (which is why I'm every bit as critical of WSU's Northwest Public Radio repeaters everywhere for the same reason as I loathe the CSN/EMF stations.) The internet can fill in most terrestrial coverage gaps - and then some. Use it.
What we need are more INDEPENDENT stations, bringing more fresh, unique voices and programming to the airwaves. And there's a lot of them out there.
There could be more. These days, we need ALL the radio variety we can get.....
[/quote]
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