104.5 KMCQ & SOME OBSERVATIONS WHILE LISTENING IN SEATTLE THIS WEEKEND....

[RockJazz]

Sometimes I push send a little soon. I'll modify my comments one more time.

I understand that folks with expertise might not give that much of it away for free. I respect that there are plenty of experienced folks here. Perhaps I could have had more luck getting answers with a softer entry or a bit different approach myself. I'll keep that in mind.

 

[SeattleRadioPro]

Not particularly thin-skinned, have been called worse than "bub" by a jerk, but don't need to continue and don't want to converse with someone with your attitude.

Pot, meet kettle. Look at what you've written in this thread. I'd say it's YOU with the attitude, not me.

I asked a fair amount of questions before as well as offering some statements to see what the answers would be. If the over 50 crowd means absolutely nothing even when they are the richest old folks to date and the biggest group of them ever, then ok I hear and accept that answer.

No you don't. The proof?

If the over 50 crowd means absolutely nothing even when they are the richest old folks to date and the biggest group of them ever...

Obviously you haven't read a thing that I and other "pros" said about older demos. Go back and re-read those replies and you'll see that older folks don't matter to ADVERTISERS - the ones who provide the REVENUE to a station.

As I said I learned some things, but overall I am not that impressed by the "expertise". I heard very little about the music, music selection or the craft of building and holding an audience- in the name of making money of course. I get that and am not challenging that.

And you never asked about these things. As you said yourself,

I understand that folks with expertise might not give that much of it away for free. I respect that there are plenty of experienced folks here. Perhaps I could have had more luck getting answers with a softer entry or a bit different approach myself. I'll keep that in mind.

That's good advice.

Also - try the Programming board on R-I. You'll get more general answers there.

 

[LITTLEBOYBLUE]

RockJazz ... you are welcome to "message" me anytime with any questions that cross your mind. I'll be happy to answer and I promise answers will be sans unnecessary attitude and baggage. I appreciate your interest in learning.

 

[RockJazz]

I understand what was said about the over 50 crowd in the eyes of advertisers. How you what to read what I said or understand is up to you.

I talked about playlists several times before- and mostly got grief for it- and once specifically asked about the art of matching up strings of songs and got no substantive detail.

It is fairly easy to rub people the wrong way and it is usually mutual when it happens.

I recently noticed the programming section and if I were to pursue such questions further I probably would go there.

I understand more than I did before I poked my head into this tent that radio is a very challenging business and that almost everybody has blue-sky preferences and that folks vary in how much they want to hear about them. It probably isn't that good a use of time but a lot of folks have ventured them at one time or another, one place or another.

Good wishes.

 

[RockJazz]

Thanks LittleBoyBlue for the offer and I'll keep it in mind.

Thanks also to Bongwater, AQH and others who answered my questions or added commentary in threads that didn't get too cross-wise and that I learned from. I learned stuff even from those I got cross-wise with.

I make my share of mistakes both in statement and reaction. Not looking to be in a beef, often try to avoid it and have trimmed some posts back and passed on others, but stuff happens.

 

[TVradioguru]

Look RockJazz, sorry you were offended by my posts. Sometimes contradicting how a listener thinks radio works on these boards comes off as some sort of attack. I don't think that's what was intended here.

Some on this forum, like you are listeners, while others who haven't been successful or have much tenure in the business have preconceived ideas of what 'executives' in the business do or how it works from their perspective. Taking the word of those who don't know what they're talking about then repeating it here, will garner people like me chiming in with how things really work, albeit perceived as harsh sometimes.

As you said, ASKING a question will usually get an accurate reply. Making statements that aren't true or parroting information from those bitter about the business will result in a correction by those who do.

That being said, to me having an opinion that you don't like a particular format, talent, music, or whatever is perfectly reasonable.

 

[RockJazz]

Alright, no worries.

Sorry I wasn't easier to answer or satisfy fully or initially handle differences with.

 

[RockJazz]

To follow-up on a loose-end and respond to TVradioguru's question, I'd say I have recently responded to some grocery store ads when they mention sale prices, some fast food places when they had specials and I recently changed part of my insurance coverage, at least reminded to check the web and make some calls after hearing radio ads. There might be more, nothing huge, but that is my turnabout answer to a question.

 

[dunno]

RC you are just a small demo that happened upon this site. Half of us don't care about the male demo and opinion on this site. The new oldies station 104.5 and views of JJH are all male 40+. What those of us on the air here in Seattle worry about are the PPM numbers. The radio demo that spends the most is Female 18-49.

 

[TVradioguru]

To follow-up on a loose-end and respond to TVradioguru's question, I'd say I have recently responded to some grocery store ads when they mention sale prices, some fast food places when they had specials and I recently changed part of my insurance coverage, at least reminded to check the web and make some calls after hearing radio ads. There might be more, nothing huge, but that is my turnabout answer to a question.

Fair enough. The original point being; say I own an auto dealership and am looking to buy a run of spots on one or more local radio stations. In the interest of spending my ad dollars where I get the most bang for the buck and the most potential buyers to my dealership, I decide to go through an agency. The agency looks at the demos with the best track record of making a car purchasing decision. Then they look at the products I'm selling. For this example, I sell Toyota and Scion. Between the two brands, the age group most likely to buy a Toyota pickup or SUV would be in the 25-35 male demo, so one flight of spots may be on a sports or active rock station. I've got a lot of minivans to move also, so I need to target 25-35 women or family demos too. The agency looks at what radio station appeals to that demo, not just in ratings but in track record. If an agency were to have a successful track record with happy customers from a particular station which equated to increased sales for the client, then they could weigh the ratings vs. track record and place the flight of ads there. As you can see in this example, ratings are a good measurement but not necessarily the final decision in where to place an ad. Now to Scion.. The Scion brand target demo target is 18-25 males and females. One wouldn't generally place spots for Scion on a classic hits or oldies station, but perhaps a CHR.

In the end the goal is finding the demo-niche' and then owning it. The fact is as others have posted here and as shown in my example; the more lucrative ad dollars for a radio station are the ones who make frequent and impulse purchasing decisions. And that age bracket is definitely under 50.

 

[RockJazz]

Alright, thanks for the additional replies.


Even though I tend to be interested in the inside game of things and will sometimes take advantage of opportunities to offer critique or suggestions for improvement, I think I have probably done about enough to satisfy that itch.


Though I'll send LittleBoyBlue one message, since he offered.


(And offer the brief off-hand observation that I find faint hints of Robin & Maynard in the dialog between the KZOK pairing of Stacie and Nate.)



After the posts yesterday I had an easier, funner time just spinning the dial between a wide range of specialty shows and stuff that I was familiar with (fairly new and old). I think I'll mainly stick to that, especially given my demo and where I sit in relation to the business.

 

[Steenman]

About why advertisers chose the radio buys that they do: 'ratings' is a one dimensional answer. "Audience Delivery' is, in my view, a more accurate way to look at it. Factors include 'reach' (circulation), frequency (number of times a listener is estimated to hear an ad), indexing (are there more listeners at this dial position inclined to buy the product than at another station), and of course 'price' (how much does the station want for it's audience). In addition to that, things like 'foreground versus background listening" (the ASSUMPTION is that a sport or news broadcast is more intrusive than a jazz format and therefore the advertising will be more effective), use of DJ endorsement or 'billboards" or promos - anything that might help the message we create stand out from the 'din' of the station. I also consider, if I have the opportunity to personally listen to the station (as in I'm in the market) things like how the spot breaks are structured (It's great to be #1 in the market but if all the spots are shoved into one 12 minutes stop set and I can't get the first or second position in the break then the ratings mean a whole lot less to me). Also, for more than transactional business, things like the relationship with the station rep- do they work for me and my clients, or do they work for their boss? The best rep is one that can get my spots on the air, watch them carefully, upgrade or bonus spots and do it as just a low enough rate that they clear which is of course the opposite of what management wants which is to sell their inventory at the highest price they can get. Even the support staff is a consideration at times. We media buyers all have our own approaches, formulas, experience etc. and on top of that most of our clients have their own ideas we need to satisfy as well. So it's a fairly complicated metric and 'ratings' is only one component we evaluate.

 

[FMSteve]

Steenman, what a GREAT post! All readers of this board should read this one. I particulary liked how you (as a media buyer) understand how using billboard tie-ins with a spot rotation, coupled with good placement of the spot as the 1st or 2nd in the spot break make your advertising more effective.

You're obviously not a 25 year old bimbo straight out of college that buys JACK because of their great numbers in offices, not considering that it's background noise.

 

[Steenman]

Thanks for the compliment. Let me add that every radio station can be effective if used 'correctly'. How to 'correctly' use them is different for different formats, client goals and other factors. I wouldn't rule out the use of JACK or any other station without looking at all the factors.

 

[Scoobyfan1]

107.1/KAZZ has always pretty much been a dog. I know they are limited on how much they can move close to Spokane due to 106.9 in Lewiston. I'm sure they could use some kind of directional antenna and still cover Spokane. It's sad to see a station like that go to waste....like it has for so many years.

As far as Dicks--there is Dicks Hamburgers here in Spokane.....NO relation to the one in the Seattle area. The menu is different---they offer fish-n-chips, pizza, chicken and the burgers in my humble opinion just aren't as good as what I grew up with---Dicks in Seattle. I remember when I moved to Spokane the first time in 1991, I thought---"wow---there's a Dick's Drive-In here." Well, I found out after I ate there----they ONLY share the name....nothing else. It is odd that the one here or the one is Seattle didn't get a trademark for the name....they both opened up around the same time period--1954. It's just strange one didn't make the other change their name...or maybe they have an agreement the Dick's here stays in Spokane and the ones in Seattle stay west of the Cascades....so there is NO direct competition.....both establishment have their die-hard fans.....me? I love the Dick's Drive-Inn in Seattle...it IS the best little burger there is...not to mention those incredulous chocolate shakes.....it's funny I did have a couple of those little cheeseburgers for lunch today.....keep 'em in the freezer and then nuke 2 of 'em for 2 minutes on high...then enjoy!



jj

Believe it or not, i've never been to Dick's in Seattle; was going to go to one a couple years ago for lunch on a Sunday; of course considering the weather was good that day it was packed; someday i'll get to one of those. If JJ's reading this, next time he comes to the Seattle area he should go to a place called Pick-Quick Drive-In in Fife; i've been there several dozen times in the last decade or so, one of the best burgers ive ever had, and their shakes and fries are pretty good too.

 

[Scoobyfan1]

I was in the "Emerald City" from Friday night thru Sunday afternoon...and I decided to give 104.5 a listen.....it took a little longer than I expected for me to pick it up on my radio....but once the signal came in....generally it came in just fine all over Seattle.....Bellevue, Tukwila, Renton, Sammamish, Isssaquah, Kirkland, Everett, Edmonds, and North Seattle.....I was pleasantly surprised.....

My only bad observations.....there were a handful of songs that were NOT in stereo. "Black Water," was one.....the stereo generator was on but the song was NOT in stereo. And that sounded awful--that song sounds so good in stereo. Musically it sounds like KJR-FM's "Super Hits Of The 60's & 70's" which was such a fun format when I worked on the air there...and Bob Case was programming it. KMCQ-FM is a fun station to listen to, and not nearly predictable as KJR-FM....it was nice to hear "I Say A Little Prayer For You" by Dionne Warwick. I did seem to hear alot by the Supremes for their 60's songs. But the did play some nice stuff like "Close To You" by the Carpenters, a song or two by Bread, and then the Doors "Love Her Madly." Lots of good 70's Pop-Soul like the Spinners, Sly & The Family Stone and a few of those what I call "Lost 45's." I'm sure when some BIG company gets ahold of it, they will ruin what is nice and fun station to listen to(you know If it doesn't test well, we can't play it---I hate that excuse).....I must say it is REALLY ODD to hear a station play NO commercials..and just some pre-recorded liners and drops periodically. The one time it did fade out for a few seconds was when I was getting back on I-5 Southbound at the Mercer St. ramp...it faded out in the little tunnel. It did stay in on the I-90 tunnels between Seattle and Bellevue.

The one BIG TRAIN WRECK that I did hear was when they went from "Bang A Gong(Get It On)" by T-Rex right into "It's A Wonderful World" by Louis Armstrong......there should have been 1 or 2 transition songs between those two. Generally I'd say a person that likes one of those songs will NOT like the other.....

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future to this station.

It was interesting---the friends I stayed with this weekend HAD discovered the station and enjoy listening to it. They are all around 50 years old and they really liked the mix of music and the fact and I quote them "It's NOT the same songs over and over again." They miss KBSG and do listen to KZOK some as well.

On other notes...KOMO-FM's signal really gets out nicely...I was very pleasantly surprised...and it's amazing on the weekends how many infomercials there are on AM radio...very very sad to say the least. I realize it's money....sure would be nice to hear some real fun radio again....AND I did enjoy hearing the Casey Kasem countdown Sunday morning on KJR-FM, it was cool when Casey played BOTH sides of a CCR hit.....and Casey really did sound great in the 70's...I had forgotten. ONE BIG DISAPPOINTMENT----I could hear the Mariners games on the air in Ellensburg(when I was driving back to Spokane) and a couple of other cities but NOT on KIRO-710...what kind of a flagship station are they?!?!?!?!?---when they don't carry the games themselves, instead you hear syndicated ESPN stuff...that is NOT good programming in my humble opinion. KIXI sounded weird in Saturday doing so much big band music, then they finally got back to their MOR format and that was much more listenable. But what a lack of personality...I miss hearing Jack Morton on there....he did SUCH a great job with that format. I was surprised that KKNW/1150 had such a great signal---although it IS being wasted same thing with 1250AM, 1540AM, and almost all of AM band....the exceptions when I was listening...KVI, KIRO, KTTH, KIXI, KJR, KOMO, 1090, all have good signals and get out nicely but programming isn't stellar...it was great hearing 1380/KRKO loud and clear in downtown Seattle on I-5. Kind of weak air talent on KPLZ during the weekend.....music was pretty good...and some guy on KISS 106.1 sounded about 16 years old....AWFUL.

It was great to have some Dick's Cheeseburgers and fries, dinner at the Cheesecake Factory and stopping by Dicks on the way out of town and bringing back 14 of those Cheeseburgers, putting them in my freezer, and then when I'm in the mood, popping 1 or 2 in the microwave and enjoying a real treat.....It was really nice in Seattle on Saturday & Sunday....nice to be back home once again......



JJ Hemingway....Your Spokane Radio Pal...

Yeah, it does suck that KRIO doesn't air all the spring games; but I guess since their trying to establish their shows it doesn't make sense to pre-empt programming, although on weekends it doesn't really make that much sense. On the subject of burgers though, in addition to Pick-Quick Drive-In which I mention in another post, Sonic Drive in is pretty good, they have ones in Puyallup and Bonney Lake and their opening on on 6th avenue in Tacoma in a couple of months or so.

 

[RealityBites]

Well it's nice to see you all playing nice on this board.

I've coined a phrase and I think it has merit.

"Radio is not in trouble, Radio is in transition."

I guess I'm one of the lucky few who did recently get a job
in radio. I am making 1/3 what I used to make and I'm okay
with that. It is the status quo. It took 23 interviews and almost
a year to make it back.

Since I've been back I've noticed a few things. First Steenman's post
was right on. And it's been that way since 1975, 1985, 1995 2005, and today.
He gets it. And yes, I was very negative on the current state of radio a year
ago. To be honest, the industry has ripped our guts out. So what are we
going to do? Take our ball and go home? I tried that. I found I missed
radio very much even in it's current dysfunctional state. And after being back
I'm reminded what a great town full of great radio peeps we have..like Ed.

So to those with 'supreme radio knowledge' remember some of us like Rock
Jazz are here for more reasons than "What If Radio" That's what I call sports
radio in general. "What if the Mariners trade so and so."

I've been blasted on this site before and perhaps some of deserved, but some
people just come here and post a thought or two and are pounced upon.
Thanks

 

[SeattleRadioPro]

I guess I'm one of the lucky few who did recently get a job
in radio. I am making 1/3 what I used to make and I'm okay
with that. It is the status quo. It took 23 interviews and almost
a year to make it back.

First of all - congrats on the new gig. It's good to hear of someone actually HIRED in radio instead of being laid off.

So to those with 'supreme radio knowledge' remember some of us like Rock
Jazz are here for more reasons than "What If Radio" That's what I call sports
radio in general. "What if the Mariners trade so and so."

I've been blasted on this site before and perhaps some of deserved, but some
people just come here and post a thought or two and are pounced upon.
Thanks

Totally agree. But the problem starts when those who "post a thought or two" then start taking swipes at those who still work in the business and understand how it is these days. There's a lot one can learn from people like the Guru, AQH and others - if they just come in with a different attitude.

 

[Scoobyfan1]

Back to KMCQ 104.5, I've noticed that Mark Christopher hasn't been on the air this week. He might be under the weather or be taking vacation, or something like that; just wanted to mention that.

 

[Lonely Summer]

Back to KMCQ 104.5, I've noticed that Mark Christopher hasn't been on the air this week. He might be under the weather or be taking vacation, or something like that; just wanted to mention that.

I hope that's all it is, Mark is a good guy, and I'd like to see this turn into a permanent gig, but my hopes are not high - and not because of anything Mark has or hasn't done, just that I know oldies is a dead format.