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104.7 WNOK and 104.7 WKQC

G

Gregg

In a thread below, discussing the tower move for 104.3 WBBQ Augusta, someone mentioned WBBQ has to protect 104.7s in Columbia and Charlotte.

How can both cities have Class C FM stations on the same frequency 85 miles apart? I'm not sure they'd even be allowed Class C stations one channel apart with only a distance of 85 miles separating them. I've driven between both cities, although didn't have 104.7 on my radio. But I know you can pick up Charlotte Class C FMs almost into Columbia and visa-versa.

If you're on the right hill top in Columbia, you can get the Class C's from Charlotte, Charleston and Greenville-Spartenburg. And without even trying you can get the Class C's from Augusta as you drive around Columbia.

For the record, Clear Channel's WNOK is 90,000 watts at 1030 feet. CBS's WKQC is at 96,000 watts at 1210 feet, according to www.radio-locator.com

Gregg
[email protected]
 
Hi Greg,

It was due to both stations being grandfathered in. The 104.7 in Charlotte signed on first in the late 40s (around 1948) as WIST-FM, but turned in the license around 1957. Although the license was turned in, the 104.7 allocation for Charlotte was never deleted, which paved the way for WYFM-FM to sign-on in 1961 as a 3.8 kW FM. Meanwhile, WNOK-FM signed on in 1959 as a 3.4 kW FM and later increased its power to 100Kw in 1970. WYFM was acquired by EZ Communications in 1972, which renamed it WEZC and increased the power to 100kW.

Robyn
 
Gregg said:
How can both cities have Class C FM stations on the same frequency 85 miles apart? I'm not sure they'd even be allowed Class C stations one channel apart with only a distance of 85 miles separating them. I've driven between both cities, although didn't have 104.7 on my radio. But I know you can pick up Charlotte Class C FMs almost into Columbia and visa-versa.

If you're on the right hill top in Columbia, you can get the Class C's from Charlotte, Charleston and Greenville-Spartenburg. And without even trying you can get the Class C's from Augusta as you drive around Columbia.
Click to expand...

I've been in the Chester SC area, with 104.7 on my radio.
It's probably the worst co-channel interference you can imagine,
it's even worse than the 100.3 & 101.1 in NYC & Philly.

If you're moving around, you'll hear both stations side by side back and forth with a pretty strong signal,
if one went away, the other would be static-free.
If you're standing still, you can move the antenna and get either one by chance,
or even hear both at the same time with the same strength.

In the cities of Lancaster & Rock Hill, it's very possible for both to interfere,
but KQC seems to be stronger there. I've had NOK interference even in Rock Hill,
which is part of the Charlotte target area. As soon as you go south from Lancaster it gets very bad there.

Theres about a 15 mile stretch on I-77, from just south of Rock Hill until just north of Winnsboro,
centered around the town of Richburg (milemarkers 55-70 on I-77) where 104.7 is completely useless,
with no chance of a clear signal from either one.

Here in Gaffney I can hear KQC just fine, a bit weak but still ok.
But during tropo NOK can greatly interfere especially while driving.

I made a combined Radio-Locator map which clearly shows the overlap of WNOK & WKQC:
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9084/wkqcwnokcompare.gif
 
As Robyn tells us, both were grandfathered on the same frequency but at low power. I'd imagine today the FCC would not allow two Class A stations (3000 watts at 330 feet) to be 85 miles apart.

So I wonder how the FCC allowed two grandfathered FM stations on the same dial position to go to Class C status, each close to 100,000 watts on towers over 1000 feet? You'd think the engineer at one station would have objected when the other applied for such high power.

Kyle gives us the best example of two major stations too close together: WCBS-FM NYC and WBEB Philadelphia, 90 miles apart, both sharing 101.1. They were grandfathered as well but I think both had Class B power from their early days of FM broadcasting. WCBS-FM, with 7000 watts at 1330 feet and WBEB with 13,000 watts at 1000 feet aren't the blowtorches that WKQC and WNOK are. So even though WCBS-FM and WBEB create hash in places like Princeton NJ, Toms River NJ and Easton PA, they rarely cancel each other out in their primary coverage areas, even on summer nights.

For the record, I think there are two other Columbia-area FMs that are short-spaced, both Class A's... 102.3 and 103.1 in Columbia are only 65 miles from stations on the same frequencies in Augusta GA.

Gregg
 
Gregg:

The audio division's policies towards Grandfathered stations has always been fairly loose, much more so before enacting the spacing distances, which I believe came about in the late-1970's/early 1980's.

Reserved-band stations, by the way, are still allocated based on actual contours rather than by distance. So it is still possible to have 100kw reserved band stations with City Grade contours touching, but not overlapping. Not that there are many places in the country that you could drop in a reserved band station.
 
In a related subject, WCOS used to occupy 97.9 - same frequency still occupied by WPEG, Concord, in the Charlotte market. Didn't WCOS call themselves "The Great 98"?

Eric
 
In a related subject, WCOS used to occupy 97.9 - same frequency still occupied by WPEG, Concord, in the Charlotte market. Didn't WCOS call themselves "The Great 98"?

WCOS was known as the "Great 98" for many years. They did operate on the 97.9 frequency at 50,000 watts off the tower behind the old Millwood site. They switched the frequency to 97.5 in the mid 80s while I was working there. New tower was constructed up off Campground Road up near Blythewood. Transmitter site also moved there and power was increased to 100,000 watts. Don't remember it being an interference issue. Think the frequency move was to increase the power to cover more area. Milton Holiday ( Hope i spelled that correctly) was the engineer at the time. Wonder if he's still around. I do remember WIGL FM (Now B106) signed on as competition at 100,000 watts. That may have been some incentive as well
 
I remember The Great 98 and the day I was sitting in the Food Lion parking lot in Santee listening when they changed frequences, the DJ said here we go follow us, follow us to the new frequency, come on down to 97.5 FM. I think that was one of their best moves that they made althou I do miss The Great 98 and the TV commericals that told me your radio dail is off center.
 
I started having trouble from WNOK south of Monroe in 1983. Where I lived, though, Columbia stations were listenable, even some of the 3000-watt ones, and even Charleston stations could be picked up occasionally.

WKRR Asheboro (actually Greensboro) and WXLK Roanoke are also short-spaced. Both are on 92.3.
 
Amazing that WCOS was at 97.9 FM until that recently. Did it have the same interference issues as 104.7 before that? Look at the monster signal they have at 97.5. It is clearly listenable on a good radio in probably 75% of the state at any time. It comes in around Charleston almost every day, and it doesn't take much for it to be in strong.
 
WCOS actually changed frequencies in early 1991. It was a good move not only for WCOS and WPEG, but also WBPR (now WWXM) in Myrtle Beach was able to increase its power as well. After the frequency change WCOS billed themselves as "Great Country 97.5".

Robyn
 
Buckeyes2001 said:
Could either WNOK or WKQC move to another frequency like WCOS did to eliminate the co-channel interference situation?
Click to expand...

I think WKQC can move to 104.5 without interfering much with any neighbors on 104.3
Although they would have to throw a BIG null to the east to protect WJSG in Rockingham,
and maybe a little null SW to protect WBBQ.
Here in Gaffney theres a translator on 104.3 but they can move (class D service).

I don't think they'd affect then-2nd adjacent WTQR in the Triad,
or then-1st adjacent WQNQ Asheville.

--

WNOK can't move to 104.9 because of a station on 105.1 near Lake City (WPDT).
WNOK can't move to 104.5 because of Charleston's WRFQ & definitely WBBQ.
 
KyleAndMelissa22 said:
Buckeyes2001 said:
Could either WNOK or WKQC move to another frequency like WCOS did to eliminate the co-channel interference situation?
Click to expand...

I think WKQC can move to 104.5 without interfering much with any neighbors on 104.3
Although they would have to throw a BIG null to the east to protect WJSG in Rockingham,
and maybe a little null SW to protect WBBQ.
Here in Gaffney theres a translator on 104.3 but they can move (class D service).

I don't think they'd affect then-2nd adjacent WTQR in the Triad,
or then-1st adjacent WQNQ Asheville.


WNOK can't move to 104.9 because of a station on 105.1 near Lake City (WPDT).
WNOK can't move to 104.5 because of Charleston's WRFQ & definitely WBBQ.
Click to expand...

No can do. 104.5 would be short to 104.3 in Hamlet, NC and 104.5 at Hope Mill, NC. It's also short to WHAJ 104.5 in Bluefield, WV but that's a pre-64 FM so Charlotte 104.7 and Bluefield may be able to ignore each other. WCOS was able to find an opening because the FCC created a new class of 100KW stations, C1s which are limited to 989 feet height at 100KW. Above that height, they have to drop power.
 
Those two signals mix pretty close to Charlotte. 104.5 in CHS is a strong signal too, I've heard it at Concord Mills a couple times during tropo. They haven't had the same format for nearly 20 years without being successful.
 
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