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flashback
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raccoonradio said:
good one.
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105.9 The Edge Flipping To WMAL-AM Simulcast Monday
- Thread starter DToTheJ
- Start date
good one.
thanks
Hello Goodbye apparently the last tune
Hello Goodbye apparently the last tune
Hya Big A ....
Good discussion!
I haveta disagree with you about a few things. A CHR radio station that leads the pack in a major market with a 5.0 might be paying the bills and meeting the payroll, but that in itself is not an upward sign. The 'brethren' of whom I speak were the managers who had Top 40 in double digits for maybe 20 years. And THAT was with direct competitors.
Only a few years before pop music got niched forever via the final straw on the back -- MTV -- there were even times when there were three AoR stations with ratings in the 3's and 4's, chugging along very melodiously with the more adult A/Cs in town.
Again : The erosion of radio listenership began before just about all of the modern delivery vehicles for music had been in use. I'm not in the industry anymore, and cannot quote specific references -- just what I've seen for maybe eleven years on the internet from forums such as this. But while my glossary no doubt needs work, I still have no horse I'm rooting for in this stampede. The glaring portion of all I've read on the matter is that the erosion/dropout rate/indifference has been especially, and consistently, detected among youth. That end of the universe spectrum is the most notable.
The blame can be distributed any number of ways, but the smoking stylus really can be traced only to two main defendants -- the music industry and the radio industry. One or both have failed to intrigue youth with the modern offerings of melodies which have thrilled millions for hundred of years.
Something changed. And I insist that the 'something', or the combinations that comprised that undeniable 'something', was not the fault of the missing youth. The enticement for them to continue to stock the supply line is no longer there. It was removed. And now, voila! Those who were negligent, inadvertent or otherwise, radio or music, are admitting that the management of the auditoriums and jukeboxes they inherited was mishandled. To me, every talk format that gets bused to the 'For Music' dial is evidence.
So call me one who sees the glass as half-empty, lol. Yet, remember that I still have nothing invested in the matter.
Good discussion!
I haveta disagree with you about a few things. A CHR radio station that leads the pack in a major market with a 5.0 might be paying the bills and meeting the payroll, but that in itself is not an upward sign. The 'brethren' of whom I speak were the managers who had Top 40 in double digits for maybe 20 years. And THAT was with direct competitors.
Only a few years before pop music got niched forever via the final straw on the back -- MTV -- there were even times when there were three AoR stations with ratings in the 3's and 4's, chugging along very melodiously with the more adult A/Cs in town.
Again : The erosion of radio listenership began before just about all of the modern delivery vehicles for music had been in use. I'm not in the industry anymore, and cannot quote specific references -- just what I've seen for maybe eleven years on the internet from forums such as this. But while my glossary no doubt needs work, I still have no horse I'm rooting for in this stampede. The glaring portion of all I've read on the matter is that the erosion/dropout rate/indifference has been especially, and consistently, detected among youth. That end of the universe spectrum is the most notable.
The blame can be distributed any number of ways, but the smoking stylus really can be traced only to two main defendants -- the music industry and the radio industry. One or both have failed to intrigue youth with the modern offerings of melodies which have thrilled millions for hundred of years.
Something changed. And I insist that the 'something', or the combinations that comprised that undeniable 'something', was not the fault of the missing youth. The enticement for them to continue to stock the supply line is no longer there. It was removed. And now, voila! Those who were negligent, inadvertent or otherwise, radio or music, are admitting that the management of the auditoriums and jukeboxes they inherited was mishandled. To me, every talk format that gets bused to the 'For Music' dial is evidence.
So call me one who sees the glass as half-empty, lol. Yet, remember that I still have nothing invested in the matter.
Steve Green NEPA said:
Maybe you can be more specific about which stations and which markets, because on the whole, that's not what Arbitron is showing. And what's even more interesting is to look at age demos for online streaming of OTA stations, and that's another place where young audiences are listening to OTA radio.
Sure, the days of double digit shares are over. It's been over for a long time, because radio is sharing audience with TV, video games, work, family, and lots of other distractions. But just because radio has lost an exclusive doesn't mean it isn't in the game, and the facts show that OTA radio is part of the media usage by over 90% of people under 30.
Steve Green NEPA said:
I don't agree. Music is far more popular culturally than its ever been. The music industry has "intrigued youth" by making music far more specific and specialized and less mass appeal. The problem with that for radio is that ad-supported media needs to be mass appeal. So the two industries are going in different directions. Radio has a lot of great content that people of all ages love and consume on multiple platforms, including on-air, on-line, and mobile. The bigger companies are doing more in making radio available on those digital platforms, and that's good, because radio needs to be more interactive and more specialized, and the best way to do that is online.
This is not to say I believe talk should replace music on FM. But if an FM music station isn't delivering numbers even with a full staff of live DJs, and if broadening the talk audience allows you to have more money to spend on content, then it's a good thing. There are lots of other music stations in Washington.
>> 'Maybe you can be more specific about which stations and which markets, because on the whole, that's not what Arbitron is showing. And what's even more interesting is to look at age demos for online streaming of OTA stations, and that's another place where young audiences are listening to OTA radio.' <<
Lol, Big A. No thank you. The last time I got specific, I got charged $100 worth of beer money by the guy I quoted. Arbitron is his oxygen.
Arbitron remains in business in part to support themselves. They remain the sole authority for gauging the listenership, not the water level, in flood zones. No way are they going to allow for the possibility of people leaving the locale of response.
And of course on-line streaming of OTA stations is going to continue to increase. It HAS to.
Radio has been sharing its audience with TV since back when radio was mono and TV was black and white. I don't quite get your point here. To me, youth-oriented generations rescued that spectrum from the clutches of television. Radio even stayed apace with Hullabaloo and Shindig and The Midnight Special. Radio even transcended those 'hip' television entities by roaring past it all with AoR. Heck, the happening wasn't even CALLED AoR yet when 12-24 clutched it as their generational statement.
>> 'Music is far more popular culturally than its ever been. The music industry has "intrigued youth" by making music far more specific and specialized and less mass appeal.' <<
Disagree, Meat. I can reciprocally request that you offer some support for this claim, but instead I'd ask why you consider 'less mass appeal' as being a positive.
The music industry now operates the same as the radio industry (the survival or the downfall of their civilization depends on the figures for next month). In major markets, new Rock is on a premature respirator. So much for the males. This niching problem is one that music moguls either inherited or instigated. By my estimates, 1980 was the year that music and their PA system called Radio started niching and treating male and female youth -- permanently -- as though the two genders were issued separate currency upon birth.
You and I are sitting at the same watering hole, Big A. You are the glass half-full guy. My glass is half-empty. I'm over-and-out here on this exchange except for one additional radio-forum tidbit I read on this idle day. That was: Talk radio/sports radio/news radio is 98 % live. Music radio is nowhere near that immediate.
Lol, Big A. No thank you. The last time I got specific, I got charged $100 worth of beer money by the guy I quoted. Arbitron is his oxygen.
Arbitron remains in business in part to support themselves. They remain the sole authority for gauging the listenership, not the water level, in flood zones. No way are they going to allow for the possibility of people leaving the locale of response.
And of course on-line streaming of OTA stations is going to continue to increase. It HAS to.
Radio has been sharing its audience with TV since back when radio was mono and TV was black and white. I don't quite get your point here. To me, youth-oriented generations rescued that spectrum from the clutches of television. Radio even stayed apace with Hullabaloo and Shindig and The Midnight Special. Radio even transcended those 'hip' television entities by roaring past it all with AoR. Heck, the happening wasn't even CALLED AoR yet when 12-24 clutched it as their generational statement.
>> 'Music is far more popular culturally than its ever been. The music industry has "intrigued youth" by making music far more specific and specialized and less mass appeal.' <<
Disagree, Meat. I can reciprocally request that you offer some support for this claim, but instead I'd ask why you consider 'less mass appeal' as being a positive.
The music industry now operates the same as the radio industry (the survival or the downfall of their civilization depends on the figures for next month). In major markets, new Rock is on a premature respirator. So much for the males. This niching problem is one that music moguls either inherited or instigated. By my estimates, 1980 was the year that music and their PA system called Radio started niching and treating male and female youth -- permanently -- as though the two genders were issued separate currency upon birth.
You and I are sitting at the same watering hole, Big A. You are the glass half-full guy. My glass is half-empty. I'm over-and-out here on this exchange except for one additional radio-forum tidbit I read on this idle day. That was: Talk radio/sports radio/news radio is 98 % live. Music radio is nowhere near that immediate.
Steve Green NEPA said:
Too bad...because I really like beer.
One can debate Arbitron all day, but when their numbers are backed up by other surveys, then it's time to say they're right. They have no reason to lie, and advertisers are smart enough to check the facts. My point of bringing up streaming is to say the programming isn't the problem. The device is. People love their local stations, and they prefer to stream via their computer or phone than carry around another device. My point about TV is that TV has changed since the black & white days. There are 50 times more stations available, and a few have very specialized music programming, none of which was available 40 years ago. A handful of hour-long shows doesn't compare with 24/7 channels. That puts TV in the same game as radio. Not much the radio industry can do about that.
Steve Green NEPA said:
I would but you’d poo-poo the source. The fact is that music is omni-present. Did you watch the Emmy Awards last night? Music is everywhere, but the tools we used to use to calculate its success, namely sales of CDs, is dated. I personally haven’t bought a CD in ten years. I recently drove past my favorite music store (hadn’t been in that neighborhood for a while) and discovered the store was boarded up. People don’t buy music. They download it, and file share online. It's quicker, easier, and cheaper. That doesn’t mean people don’t listen to music. It’s the same situation as radio. People listen to radio and music, just not using traditional devices. When you broaden your view beyond the world you once know, the playing field is a lot more level.
I don’t consider “less mass appeal” a positive. It’s just a fact of life. I don’t make the rules, I play by them. One of the problems with rock music is that a part of it merged with rap. If you listen to it, you’ll find that most of the lyrics are unplayable on OTA radio. The FCC has rules about that. So once again nothing radio can do about that.
I’ve read these comments about how today’s 12-24s were raised on computers, and therefore won’t grow up to use radio. I don’t know about you, but I wasn’t raised on computers, but today I use them every day. The devices I used as a kid are not the ones I use now. I grew up. I got a life, a job, and I don’t have time to spend with the types of devices I had as a kid. I’m also not into the blame game. Stuff happens. You deal with it. Pocket transistor radios have been replaced by pocket cell phones. It’s radio’s job to get it’s content where the people are. If that means on the phone, then that’s what it means. I also don’t care about live & local. Having an exclusive on sushi isn’t going to make me eat raw fish.
Getting back to this specific situation in Washington, it's very simple. This was a heritage classic rock station that invested a lot of money in heritage live & local talent, and the audience was getting older. The other popular music formats were already taken. Meanwhile they have a strong local AM brand that's stuck in a bad neighborhood. The AM band has been deserted in DC. So all they did was pick up their nice restaurant and moved it to Georgetown. One of these stations had to go, and they chose the classic rock station. I wouldn't expect a lot of other stations in DC to follow.
flashback said:
DCist.com liked it...
http://dcist.com/2011/09/wvrx_switches_to_talk_simulcast_goi.php
"A commenter on radio message boards said it best: From Rush to Rush!" And that's the very first words of the article! Nicely done!
Old PD said:
I mentioned how WMAL's ratings tank come 3 PM. According to previous reports on DCRTV, Limbaugh has finished 3rd, sometimes 2nd, in its time slot on WMAL - behind, most likely, WTOP. One would think that, now that WMAL has the FM signal, it has a chance to dethrone WTOP, at least during El Rushbo's time slot. But I personally don't think that will happen unless they drop or delay Hannity in favor of a local afternoon show. Of course, they're not going to ever overtake WTOP as a whole, but at least they have a winnable victory to shoot for in the 12 noon-3 PM time slot.
Thanks, glad people liked my quip! What's interesting is that there are a couple "Rush Radio"stations
(conservative talk) and also a "Rush Radio" type of internet stream or something...and I know a woman
(Donna Halper) who helped Rush immensely by getting them airplay on the Buzzard in Cle., thus
breaking them in the US. My own preference might be talk shows in the spirit of Mr. Limbaugh but I
will note the band's "Spirit of Radio" gets a bit of play on JT The Brick's sports talk show every night,
with the words "begin the day with a friendly voice...." Spirit of Radio indeed.
(conservative talk) and also a "Rush Radio" type of internet stream or something...and I know a woman
(Donna Halper) who helped Rush immensely by getting them airplay on the Buzzard in Cle., thus
breaking them in the US. My own preference might be talk shows in the spirit of Mr. Limbaugh but I
will note the band's "Spirit of Radio" gets a bit of play on JT The Brick's sports talk show every night,
with the words "begin the day with a friendly voice...." Spirit of Radio indeed.
And I'm sure Brick's not the only one...
Here's a YouTube video of WMAL signing on FM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktiA6epxmkM
Here's a YouTube video of WMAL signing on FM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktiA6epxmkM
>>So you're reporting 105.9 went to a WMAL simulcast at 5 AM?
>>According to Yes.com, The Edge is still playing music
At 5 am the day of the flip maybe but not at noon...
105.9 ended with Hello Goodbye on their stream )and yes you'll see that on the YouTube vid linked above) and went into news, then Rush. Maybe this is monitoring a computer that is still firing up music, or maybe this is what's on HD 2 etc but note:
when you click the link and see Chat (a list of songs) it currently says
Beatles--Across the Universe 2:06 am
The Cure--Love Song 2:36 am
Allman Bros--Jessica 2:57 am
MxPx--Chick Magnet 3:39 am
4 songs in the space of an hour and a half or so? Talk about Your Less Music Station...
>>According to Yes.com, The Edge is still playing music
At 5 am the day of the flip maybe but not at noon...
105.9 ended with Hello Goodbye on their stream )and yes you'll see that on the YouTube vid linked above) and went into news, then Rush. Maybe this is monitoring a computer that is still firing up music, or maybe this is what's on HD 2 etc but note:
when you click the link and see Chat (a list of songs) it currently says
Beatles--Across the Universe 2:06 am
The Cure--Love Song 2:36 am
Allman Bros--Jessica 2:57 am
MxPx--Chick Magnet 3:39 am
4 songs in the space of an hour and a half or so? Talk about Your Less Music Station...
N
nocomradio
Guest
I've been listening off and on for the last few days, and I must say, while WMAL-FM sounds like a great idea, they still have a long way to go to get up to speed on the FM dial. They still sound like the AM station that nobody in DC listened to much anymore. I wonder what they plan to offer that will help them compete that wasn't working for them on AM?
I wish them all the best, but it sounds like it may take a while.
I wish them all the best, but it sounds like it may take a while.
N
nocomradio
Guest
DToTheJ said:Again, if they put in more of a local effort, especially after Rush, it might not take as long as you may think...
So, which lucky radio station will be the recipient of the vaunted WVRX calls?
Local will be the key for sure. Sadly, WMAL hasn't grasped that concept for many years in their AM perch. That's why I have the question, what are they going to do to improve things. Simulcasting doesn't sound like it will be the fix. I'm sure someone there knows this and may even be working on it, but I've seen lots of businesses go down this same road: Buy a failing business, (in this case a Classic Rocker that wasn't doing well) try to run it the same, (placing an old brand with old values that weren't doing well on the frequency) and then not understand why it tanked in the end, blaming the economy, customers, etc. (expecting different results from the same methods)
As far as the VRX call? It'll probably be shipped to the highest bidder.
I think that there are economic forces at work here. WMAL has been a cash cow for all of its owners since the old Evening Star days.
In the past decade WMAL has suffered from having the best AM signal in an FM market.
It’s owners tweaked the programming to right leaning political talk, since that was what was doing well for AM stations riding the Limbaugh conservative talk wave. It still brought in money.
Now, however, the combination of aging demographics, younger listeners’ aversion to AM, plus increasing noise on the AM band from IBOC, CFL light bulbs and computers have hurt AM listening to the point of being untenable. So beginning the switch to FM was probably overdue.
“The Edge” never found any programming traction, and was not producing much income, so the decision to salvage the WMAL brand was a no brainer.
I would expect the switch to FM to have an effect on programming. I would look for the sound to get softer and more natural, away from the acerbic jack up the mid-range AM sound (if you have listened… they have already started to adjust the processing). My best guess is that the talk programming will continue, but may be tweaked back a little more to center. I would also expect PM Drive to go live eventually and hopefully to be followed by more local programming.
In a year or so I would look for WMAL follow WTOP and walk away from the AM band entirely. As for 630, it is my opinion that its fate will be determined by the fact that its tower field might be the most valuable piece of residential real estate in the Washington metro.
In the past decade WMAL has suffered from having the best AM signal in an FM market.
It’s owners tweaked the programming to right leaning political talk, since that was what was doing well for AM stations riding the Limbaugh conservative talk wave. It still brought in money.
Now, however, the combination of aging demographics, younger listeners’ aversion to AM, plus increasing noise on the AM band from IBOC, CFL light bulbs and computers have hurt AM listening to the point of being untenable. So beginning the switch to FM was probably overdue.
“The Edge” never found any programming traction, and was not producing much income, so the decision to salvage the WMAL brand was a no brainer.
I would expect the switch to FM to have an effect on programming. I would look for the sound to get softer and more natural, away from the acerbic jack up the mid-range AM sound (if you have listened… they have already started to adjust the processing). My best guess is that the talk programming will continue, but may be tweaked back a little more to center. I would also expect PM Drive to go live eventually and hopefully to be followed by more local programming.
In a year or so I would look for WMAL follow WTOP and walk away from the AM band entirely. As for 630, it is my opinion that its fate will be determined by the fact that its tower field might be the most valuable piece of residential real estate in the Washington metro.
Looks like the simulcast isn't working based on early results. DCRTV posted the numbers for the first week of the WMAL AM/FM simulcast, and both of them finished in 20th place. Even more shocking is that the finish for Rush's show was well outside the top 10; usually, it's the morning show finishing at around 10th, then Rush in 3rd place or so, then Hannity promptly pisses away Rush's audience and plummets to about 18th place on average.
I thought that an FM simulcast would help WMAL - what is going on? ???
I thought that an FM simulcast would help WMAL - what is going on? ???
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