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106.7 brings oldies back to ATL; what about Macon?

K

kturnerga

Guest
My sister is wild about 106.7 in Atlanta. This oldies station recently set up shop and has Sixties and Seventies oldies. It has NASCAR-related programming and Imus in the morning. So why do we have oldies stations which are 1) underpowered AM daytimers 2)underpowered and syndicated on the outer fringes of Macon or 3) a combination of newer AC hits and Seventies?

I know Macon has a lower-class demographic which loves mostly urban and country. There are some of us who represent a better demographic- even if we had to move out of Bibb County and into an adjacent county.

Perhaps it is because Citadel owns 106.7 and not Doofus Media, Dumbbell Communications or Lowrate Register.
 
Okay, kturnerga, your insult-slip is showing.

We've thrashed our way through this before, but for the record, understand that the True Oldies Channel that is heard on WYAY-FM in Atlanta is THE SAME True Oldies Channel that is aired on WAYS-AM 1500 (and on its companion website, waysam.com - which operates 24/7). It's the Scott Shannon, ABC Radio Networks, Citadel-owned True Oldies Channel. Although WAYS does not carry Imus, nor do we carry NASCAR programming, and aside from the fact that WYAY has (I believe) a local afternoon show (which uses EXACTLY the same music log as the network), the programming is essentially the same.

Okay, that having been said, here's the thing with "Oldies"/Classic Hits programming: in order for it to be successful enough to occupy space on an FM station of any strength, it has to be supported by promotional and marketing dollars, in addition to being well-programmed. The days of Oldies 99WAYS are long gone. I programmed that station to the best numbers it ever had as an Oldies station in the Fall '99 ARB; that was the last book with Bill Elder in morning drive, Brad Majors in middays and yours truly in afternoon drive. Yet the then-owners of WAYS were so blinded by their desire to make the millions from selling off frequencies as move-ins to Atlanta that WAYS got lost in the shuffle.

The sales staff at US Broadcasting were uninterested in selling a radio station with a 9 share 25-54 because it required some effort to sell, whereas they could just sit by and wait for the fax machine to ring and sell advertising out the wazoo on WDEN and WPEZ. So they had the programming, they had the ratings, but it never developed the revenue. And once the Oldies format was relegated to the inferior 105.5 startup, that was pretty much all she wrote. So WAYS was the second station in the cluster to be escorted to the guillotine when Cumulus management (not including me) decided that a change had to be made. The first was the format-of-the-month 92.3, which flipped from Classic Rock to Urban in 2004. The WAYS experiment on 105.5 lasted until May of 2005.

As for the fringe "Classic Hits" attempts being thrown at the market, understand that the 102.5 frequency, to which Clear Channel moved its Peach format in March, is the license that CC has to divest under the current terms of the buyout/privatization deal. I presume that CC could continue to "operate" the station for the Aloha Trust, but I doubt very seriously they'll put anything into its operation. And the "Quixie" ripoff that Georgia Eagle has been running from the Cordele-licensed station is not intended to be a Macon station (or really even a Warner Robins station for that matter). It may be fine for a small-market-sounding satellite station serving part of south Georgia, but it's never going to be competitive as long as it's on that signal. And frankly, neither station really stands out as anything special; they both seem to be just treading water and biding their time until whatever happens, happens. A shame, really, because I thought Peach had some potential to be competitive in its 96.5 incarnation. I think the programming of that station was done somewhat slip-shod by an overworked Operations Manager and a staff that wasn't really interested in the format they were assigned to program. John's a bright guy, but I think the format was just not his forte.

If YOU want to move to another county just to be able to hear "Oldies/Classic Hits", then it occurs to me you have WAY too much time on your hands. I agree wholeheartedly that there is an audience that would LOVE to have a truly competent Oldies/Classic Hits format on a full-market signal, but unless and until a business plan can be put into place that would 1) not cannibalize audience from an existing station in a given cluster [meaning, in the case of Cumulus, WPEZ], and 2) could guarantee a sufficient return-on-investment to make it worthwhile, then it is not going to happen. Trust me, I would LOVE to program an Oldies format again, because I know that format inside and out and was damned good at it when I was doing it.

There has to be some true PASSION for the music and the intricacies of the format to make it work. If you can figure out a way to make that happen and to make a little money doing it, more power to you. In the meantime, I would invite you to check out the waysam.com website and listen to the TOC on Big WAYS 1500.

Thanks!
TDO
David Nolin
Program Director
WAYS/WPEZ
Macon, GA
 
David:
Whatever happened to "sorry sir we apologize you feel this way. We hope you enjoy our show" or
"we find that most of our customers prefer this; we apologize for the inconvenience". Try to be nice to your customers- even if I am an aircheck collector. The other posters are right; you are hideously defensive.

Also if your stations are so good why have every other advertisement hawk your advertising? If your product is good people will buy time. Let the reps go to the businesses and sell Cumulus.

It would tickle me pink if Cumulus were taken over by someone else or the FCC (without reviving the Fairness Doctrine) would shrink the number/market of stations an entity can own. Kramer told in his book about how Cumulus' stock tanked before they went private.

I apologize if you felt insulted but we have a hole in our market that needs to be filled. I may be exaggerating the market for oldies but it's there.

KT
 
kturnerga,

No apologies offered, nor desired.

Perhaps you and the other folks on this forum are correct -- maybe I am "hideously defensive". Maybe I should just stop reading this forum, because it's loaded with people who have no clue about the realities of the radio business. That's fine, because this board is for ALL who have an interest in the radio industry.

That having been said, maybe my "defensiveness" stems from the fact that I am extremely passionate about the career I chose to chase starting at age 14. I bring a wealth of knowledge to the table, as an air personality, a programmer, a production guy, a VO talent, heck, even some technical knowledge (as long as I don't have to stick my hand in a transmitter cabinet or climb a tower). So maybe my "missives" can school some folks who don't understand or haven't been exposed to the realities of the business circa 2008.

I direct Don Rickles-esque pithy comments in these forums, and even in my everyday life, to people who profess to be "experts" but really are just pretending they have a clue, i.e. kyscott, to whom the Rickles term "hockey puck" doesn't even BEGIN to do the trick.

I have nothing to do with the scheduling of the testimonials/sales recruitment/job website ads on any of the Cumulus stations, including the ones I program. You might want to contact the Market Manager, John Rodriguez, with your concerns. (478) 746-6286. You might also contact someone at the Cumulus corporate office in Atlanta, at (404) 949-0700.

Here's a suggestion: next time a LPFM window comes open, try to snare a license for one. Then you can operate an Oldies/Classic Hits format with community programming mixed in and "superserve" the 50+ audience, and THEY can pay for it, just like public radio.

I don't think you're going to be able to adequately fund a full-power commercial stick in the format. The margins just wouldn't be acceptable in this economic climate. There's no longer any room in current radio strategy for intra-cluster format duplication; in fact, that's why WYAY is now running the True Oldies Channel. That station was country, and was a sister to WKHX, so Farid Suleman at Citadel decided to put a format that Citadel already owns, on that signal. It costs them virtually nothing to operate (Don Imus's fees notwithstanding, but I'm sure his take from just Atlanta is less than Rhubarb Jones was making), and in a Top 10 market like Atlanta, even their lowest ad rates for 106.7 would more than adequately fund the operation of that station. Same thing here in Macon: That's one of the major reasons why WAYS-FM's Oldies format was replaced by sports/talk. The belief was that WPEZ would absorb a substantial group of the WAYS listeners. The die-hards like you would at least sample 1500. Since WPEZ was already a big biller, it would potentially get a little bit bigger. And a male-intensive format could be put on the air on a decent signal, since the majority of Cumulus/Macon's programming prior to that flip was female-leaning.

You might also find a non-comm with a decent signal in the market and propose putting the format on at least part of the time.

And STILL not hiding behind a nickname, I am:

TDO
David Nolin
PD-WPEZ/WAYS
Macon, GA
 
You mentioned the non-comm stations Diamondtwo. That gives me an idea. What if the Mercer/NPR/GPR operation hosted an oldies show during lunch or maybe Saturday nights? Then again the thing for someone (esp. me) to do is to prove there is a market. If I knew how many names were needed I'd propose a petition drive online but that demands funding for advertising and web service. If enough people want oldies in the Macon/Warner Robins market they should tug at Cecil Staton's coattails. They need to ask him politely to get a CP for higher wattage signal at the closest, most feasible station his Georgia Eagle Broadcasting owns. Oh and I'd junk the Fifties/Sixties Jones Radio service he has at WQXZ.

To your credit, David, I have still been listening more to WPEZ. In fact I have antenna parts for my car coming in from California so I haven't totally given up on radio.
 
Hey David!

Okay, that having been said, here's the thing with "Oldies"/Classic Hits programming: in order for it to be successful enough to occupy space on an FM station of any strength, it has to be supported by promotional and marketing dollars, in addition to being well-programmed. The days of Oldies 99WAYS are long gone. I programmed that station to the best numbers it ever had as an Oldies station in the Fall '99 ARB; that was the last book with Bill Elder in morning drive, Brad Majors in middays and yours truly in afternoon drive. Yet the then-owners of WAYS were so blinded by their desire to make the millions from selling off frequencies as move-ins to Atlanta that WAYS got lost in the shuffle.

I am going to copy this part of your post and have it read some day at my funeral. ;D

Thanks!

Bill
 
Re: WYAY-FM True Oldies 106.7, WAYS-AM Macon-Good Times and Great Oldies

I lived in Conyers, GA back in the mid 1980`s-early 1990`s. I could pick up ways-fm oldies 99 ways very good. I am actually an Oldies aircheck collector and have many, many tapes of Oldies 99 Ways. It was a good sounding station. It had a large playlist and Bill Elder and Hank Briderman were fantastic. Brad Majors didn`t really fit into the Oldies format, I don`t think. There was a Sunday Night Show on WAYS FM in 1999-early 2000 called "The 50`s Hall Of Fame". It was done by a guy who had done the same show on an Oldies station in NC. I recently listened to some of my tapes of this show. It was really, really good. I remember that in Feb. 2000, this show disappeared (along with its` host). Also, Bill Elder and some of the others were gone. I called WAYS in April of 2000 and talked to the new afternoon jock. He was some young punk kid who didn`t know squat about the Oldies. When I asked him to lookup certain songs and artists to play, he really acted like he didn`t know who the hell theses artists or songs were. That was the beginning of the end for WAYS- bad replacement hosts. By the way, the Oldies format IS popping up again on many strong FM stations across the country. The True Oldies Format with Scott Shannon is fantastic!!!!!!!! They even play alot of great 1950`s tunes. I think that Macon will get a FM Oldies station back very, very soon. This music is PRICELESS and TIMELESS!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Shoot you have some good material on tape then. I would bet on ClearChannel and even more on Cecil Staton's Georgia Eagle for an oldies station. 101.7 just needs to ditch the old school format unless it's really paying off. Of course I take the cake in that I complained about the lack of old-style air personalities (other than BillElder) on WAYS.

If you can dip into the mid-Eighties on back with your aircheck collections you will enter the Golden Age of Music Radio. My faves are WABC, WLS, and WCFL. I even listen to cuts from Canandian stations such as CHUM. A college station at one point had Retro Radio; another had Crap from The Past. So oldies ain't dead!
KT
 
I totally agree!!!!!!!!!!! The oldies are alive and well and making a comeback on great high-powered FM`s across the country. Macon will have a great FM Oldies station again very soon. Just my own personal opinion- The demise of WAYS Oldies 99Ways and WAYS on 105 was due to PD David Nolan. Bille Elder was (by Far) the best D.J. on that station. Hank Brigrumand was second. The music was really good-large playlist-but missing some-still very good. Brad Majors didn`t fit in doing the Oldies format and didn`t sound good doing it. david Nolan on the Afternoon drive wasn`t too good. He really didn`t sound like he enjoyed it. I called him up one afternoon to make a request in 1999, and he was very unfriendly!!!! he was like "what the hell do you want". He also didn`t sound friendly like he did on air. He told me "i`ll see what I can do" and never played the song, which they had in their library. He was the downfall of Oldies in Macon, but they WILL rise again on FM VERY soon!!!!!!!! A little birdie told me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
OOooh! Whoa Nelly! You disrespected David Nolin. We better hide the sharp objects and leave the room. He is going to throw down on your ***.

I do agree he needs to loosen up. I would trace WAYS' demise to 1)a slender playlist with only TWO James Brown tunes. It was too heavy on the Fifties. The Fifties crowd was dying out and the music getting fatigue. Some more Seventies material with bunches of Southern Rock would have kept WAYS-FM afloat. 2) No real air personalities especially after Bill Elder jumped on his rocking chair and 3) The suits at Cumulus worried about robbing listeners from WPEZ-FM.

Listener requests have gone the way of the hoop skirt and dial telephone. If they own a bunch of stations Cumulus is going to make money from having a stranglehold and ramming feces down our throats.

I am so irked at Cumulus and its copious ads for- well, Cumulus- I am going to see The Root Woman down in the rough area of town and get her to put something on the Dickey family.

I've resorted to listening to Dave Rabbit at night along with whatever Chicagoland radio airchecks my grimy paws can grasp.

KT
 
I called him up one afternoon to make a request in 1999, and he was very unfriendly!!!! he was like "what the hell do you want"

Wow! 2 things Goodtimesandgreatoldies:

1) If you're gonna talk about me, at least spell my name right.

2) If I disrespected you on the phone, I apologize. Maybe, just maybe you were one of those folks who called me up 50 times a day and got pissed when I didn't get your song on immediately.

Anyway, thanks for your comments. Knowing that I'm good enough at what I did to have SINGLEHANDEDLY brought down WAYS means I can die in peace now.

David
 
David, there were things that you did right at Oldies 99 Ways. The playlist was pretty large- but should have been bigger. I still have lots of Oldies 99 tapes from 1998-2000. It was just that many of the d.j.`s never really "got into" the Oldies by stressing the music, rather than the Car Wash that was advertised every 10 minuites. David, why did you fire the guy who did the "50`s Hall of Fame"? his Sunday Night show was great! I was listening to a tape of it the other day. He did play lots of listener requests.
 
Mr. Goodtimes:
If an oldies FM comes in it'd blow the others out of the water especially CC's ramshackle nonsense.

I would focus on the 1965-1977 era. Don't be afraid to play "Dream On" by Aerosmith but soft-shoe the disco. That was a blip in an era of high gas prices and Jimmy Carter though the early disco wasn't bad at all.

My playlist ideas:
Think of Me-Todd Rundgren
Jackie Blue- Ozark Mtn Daredevils
Anything from ELO prior to the late Seventies
Magic-Pilot
Anything Al Green including "Look What You've Done To Me"
All Barry White
What is Love- George Harrison
Peace on Earth- George Harrison
Crackerbox Palace- Same Fella above.
Rock and Roll Heaven- Righteous Bros
The Lord's Prayer- Sister Janet Mead
Frankenstein- Edgar Winter Group
Some Allman Brothers and a smidge of Charlie Daniels Band for the local demo
Stuck In The Middle With You- Stealer's Wheel
Anything KC and the Sunshine Band
Anything Doobie Brothers from the early-mid Seventies

Enough typing practice. Just don't play that sissy Firefall song with the flute section, okay?

KT
 
good songs- but you don`t want to add too much classic rock. Don`t forget the great ones of the 1950`s like Elvis, Chuck berry, Fats Domino, Connie Francis, The Platters, etc...... The early 1060`s also has some great Rock and Roll Oldies classics!
 
True about adding too much classic rock. If we do only the potheads will listen in; all they buy is stereo systems and what dogs sniff for.
 
Diamondtwo said:
I direct Don Rickles-esque pithy comments in these forums, and even in my everyday life, to people who profess to be "experts" but really are just pretending they have a clue, i.e. kyscott, to whom the Rickles term "hockey puck" doesn't even BEGIN to do the trick.

You know, again with the name calling David.

Last check, I have been in broadcasting for 28 years. First starting off behind the mic in Vienna, Hawkinsville and Ocilla. Then switching to engineering in Albany, Savannah, Macon, Nashville Tennessee and now here in Louisville Kentucky. It appears that someone somewhere thinks I have a clue because I have now run a successful contract and consulting engineering firm for the past four years. If that still does not make my point, ask Hugh Allegood or John Timms the next time you see him regarding my "hocky puck" status. I was Hugh's assistant chief at Fox 31 in Albany and I was John's transmitter engineer at channel 13. You generally don't trust the transmitter at a television station like WMAZ to someone who is, in your words, clueless.

You threw a little temper tantrum (like my 10 year old daughter USED to do) because I said stations in Macon really didn't sound all that good. I didn't name names I just said that stations in Macon do not sound good. The saying goes that the hit dog yelps. Well brother you yelped and yelped very loudly without knowing exactly which stations I was talking about. If you are so passionate about this alleged career you have, I would suggest you spend more time tending to it instead of trying to pick fights in this board. Not only do you disrespect your potential listeners in here, but you are doing it on the phone, too? Perhaps you are burnt out and need a break from this alleged career you have.

Either way, I don't really give a damn what you think of me. I have the credentials needed to do my job and do my job well. I have earned the trust of organizations like Radio One, University of Kentucky, Dees Entertainment, Kentucky Public Radio, the NFL, Cincinnati Bengals and ABC Radio, just to name a few. I don't need or want your approval.

I also have the credentials to know when the processing on a radio station isn't right. Again, I didn't call names on the bad processing, you and your name calling defensiveness did. If you feel the need to call names because I, and others, have offended your precious radio stations that shows that you are in need of a serious career change and/or psychiatric help.

And since you are so insistent on knowing my name, it's Scott Cason. I now have two companies I run. LaGrange Communications for the engineering stuff and Bluegrass Broadcasting for ownership.

Now I fully expect you to flame me, because that is really the only response you can muster.
 
GT&GO.

The WAYS playlist at its height (again, about those same years that you're speaking of) was somewhere between 800-1000 songs. Granted, there was a good deal of "platooning" and "layering" going on with about 300-400 of those songs. By that I mean that there were a number of what are commonly called "lunar" records that were not the top-testing songs out there, which would be popped in and out of the rotation over a period of time. I generally tried to do a gentle "sweep" of the library about once every 3-4 months. Again, all the "power" and "secondary" tunes (the ones you'd ALWAYS expect to hear on a typical Oldies station) would rotate quickly. But we'd use special features like the "Top 10 at 10" and other features, plus some occasional "oh, wow" records at various times to try to keep things a little more "variable". Granted, there was a good bit of "smoke and mirror" work going on there, but it seemed to have worked.

As to the "50's Hall Of Fame", understand that I tried very hard to make that show work. I thought Dan Greenfield (aka "Doo-Wop Dan") did an admirable job with the pre-production for, and the on-air presentation of, that show. I even pulled a turntable out of mothballs for him to use for some really hard-to-find stuff that he had in his personal collection. I think he may have even played a 78 or two during the run of that show. Would I have liked to see the show have a chance to grow an audience by giving it longer than the 8 months it was on? Sure. But there were some other issues there that I couldn't really discuss regarding the future of the station, and everyone on the WAYS staff at that point was in peril of losing their job, because of the pending sale of WDEN's 105.3 frequency and their pending move to 99.1 (we didn't know about the 105.5 frequency that would fall into place once the behemoth 'DEN frequency went away. I think McCoy did, but he's the type of person who WANTS you to feel threatened with unemployment). No matter, the day after I cancelled the show, I was hired to program another station in another market, and gave my notice to leave US Broadcasting (THAT is another story for another time).

Yes, Don McCoy and Doug Grimm LOVED to have their cars shiny and their gas tanks filled, so we ran a LOT of trade with Fountain Car Wash. Believe me, it was a thorn in my side.

The thing to remember about keeping a HUGE playlist is that you have to be able to drive Cume to the station. Generally, most folks that would listen to any format (oldies, classic hits, AC, country, you name it) are very busy and don't spend a great amount of time with a particular station, so the TSL is tricky to build. You do that with promotions and other things to get the listeners you have to stay with you for as long as possible. But if you can drive cume (in other words, mostly play songs that are VERY familiar to the average listener), then obviously the more people you have tuning in will also help drive your TSL higher, which translates into better overall share points. Conversely, if you play a song that, for average Jane Doe listener, is unfamiliar to them, you risk the dreaded "button-push" even earlier. Yes, I understand that oldies stations are guilty of playing "Satisfaction" and "Oh, Pretty Woman" and every Beatles song that charted prior to 1968 over-and-over (yes, even THAT one from the Dave Clark Five), and we don't play the deeper cuts and certainly don't play every Top-10 song ever charted, but the reason is simply that, aside from music geeks like us, they just don't stand the test of time. Sorry, I know there's a lot of good stuff out there that's ignored by mainstream radio, but that's the reality of the business.

I hope we can have intelligent conversation on this board about things that generally make sense. This is a good example. BTW, I have very few good airchecks of those years; I'd love to hear some of the stuff. Would you shoot me an email at david (dot) nolin (at) cumulus (dot) com and let's see if we can arrange to maybe let me bum a few of those airchecks? I'll spring for the blanks and even the postage.



Scott,

I'm prepared to call a truce if you are. I know who you are; I have for awhile. I respect your credentials, and I appreciate your comments about the (lack of) audio quality of the radio stations in the Macon market. I know that Hugh and John are top-notch engineers and would not have a slacker working for them.

I do, however, disagree with the way that you generalized ALL of the stations (whether implied or otherwise) as sounding horrible (specifically, "like dog-squeeze"). It seems to me that, as picky as you are about those kinds of things, the better way to approach it would have been to offer some SPECIFIC instances of what you heard in your last market visit. Then perhaps you wouldn't have gotten the treatment from me that you have gotten. I can handle constructive criticism (believe me, I'd much prefer that over SOME of the battles I've been dragged into the last few years). What puts a burr in my butt is broad generalizations... "you work in MACON? OMG, you SUCK!" I'm sure you understand that if you hear that enough, it starts to give you a migraine. And admit it, Scott, that is EXACTLY what happened here.

I work very hard to make the stations I am responsible for sound as good as possible. Do I always succeed? No. It's a constant battle, from re-doing audio files in the automation system to tweaking the processing. But I think, at least in the case of WPEZ and WAYS, they both sound a heckuva lot better than they did when I first took over programming them (the WAYS in this case being the 1500AM signal).

So please, if you come back through in the near future, flip over to Z and let me know what you think. I'd be interested to hear another trained set of ears.

In the meantime, I'm going to continue to work on cleaning up the "dog-squeeze". Maybe soon I'll have all the smell out of the rug as well. ;D

TDO
David Nolin
 
David:
If it's ok with my sister she has a 90.00 rug cleaner machine I may be able to let you borrow for cleaning the dog stuff. Just clean the machine out good before returning :)

Oh and I didn't mean to heap a whole lot of classic rock onto my oldies concept station. Just throw in a tiny bit of Allman Brothers perhaps. And I want to apologize; I forgot "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Or do you like listening to Tavares or "It's Raining Men" on the Aloha Trust Radio Network of South Bibb?
 
kturnerga,

Somehow, I don't think the rug cleaner is going to do the trick to Mr. Cason's satisfaction. I think we're talking an industrial-size "suck truck" like the Macon Water Authority uses for its sewer backups.

Also, unfortunately I have a hard time picking up the Aloha Trust Network in my palacial downtown Macon office. I do recall hearing them play "Lady Love" by Lou Rawls and dead segue into "More Than A Feeling" by Boston one day when I was lost in south Houston County looking for someone's house.

Either that or I was off my meds that particular day.

Come to think of it, I actually ENJOYED that particular sweep... maybe I need to come off my meds more often. ???

David
 
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