106.9, KFRC-San Francisco

[1069_KIFR]

Classic Hits are back in the Bay Area. FREE-FM is dead. 106.9 KFRC is up and running. Listen live on-line at www.kfrc.com

 

[wgliradio]

It's a good thing David Eduardo doesn't have anything to do with this. :

 

[davideduardo]

It's a good thing David Eduardo doesn't have anything to do with this. :

But I think it is a great idea... 70's and 80's core, bit of 90's and smattering of 60's. I am responsible for 12 stations with such a format, and our average age is under 40, and we get on all the 25-54 buys.

 

[lash]

What a minute? Aren't you the same person, that has talked negative about oldies/classic hits on many a radio-info board? But now you've turned positive?

 

[davideduardo]

What a minute? Aren't you the same person, that has talked negative about oldies/classic hits on many a radio-info board? But now you've turned positive?

Classic hits is not the same format as oldies. One, oldies, is predominantly a 55+ format... while the other is predominantly 25-54.

One is salable and can make money, the other, now or in the long run, can't.

It's as simple as that: radio as an industry can not sustain formats that have no advertiser appeal and demand. Yet formats that have strong 25-54 audience are very successful.

If you look at the playlists of oldies and classic hits stations, most don't overlap signficantly.

 

[lash]

Glad you found some new coffee, or some happy pills, that turned you into a positive flip flopper on this format. Most of us already know it works, and finally have talked you back into it. Take a heritage set of call letters, or fill a void in a market with this format, and you should have a solid winner.

 

[davideduardo]

Glad you found some new coffee, or some happy pills, that turned you into a positive flip flopper on this format. Most of us already know it works, and finally have talked you back into it. Take a heritage set of call letters, or fill a void in a market with this format, and you should have a solid winner.

I have not flipped on anything. 60's oldies as a format is increasingly unprofitable for broadcast, and is pretty much a dead format.

For 8 years I have been doing the equivalent of classic hits... 70's and 80's core, some 90's and a few superhits of the 60's. In fact, we were doing it before anyone else, I believe... since 2000 in fact... and the averaqge age is around 37! Now we have the format in 12 markets, in fact, including 5 of the top 10 markets nationally.

Heritage calls in most places will do you harm... old image, unattractive to 35-54's.

 

[wgliradio]

Funny when I mentioned this as a possible format in New York on the Radio-Info NY board, I get slammed... no ratings and no billing... by Mr Eduardo.

My format WOULD HAVE been Super hits of the 60's, 70's and AC-80's hits (probably not 90's yet), but very similar to what's on KFRC.

So, why did you slam me David? What's with the flip flop? Only now because a major player showed you up?

He also claimed putting CBS-FM back on as if it never left was a mistake. When CBS-FM left, it was 60's HEAVY 70's and 80's. Would never work, right? Won't bill. Flip Flop now.

When it comes from US, it's no good. It has to come down from the hand of God to make him a believer. Funny how we're ahead of the game and have been calling for this kind of format for how long now?????

The proof is still in how it performs, and the people they send up to run it *shudder*

 

[davideduardo]

Funny when I mentioned this as a possible format in New York on the Radio-Info NY board, I get slammed... no ratings and no billing... by Mr Eduardo.

My format WOULD HAVE been Super hits of the 60's, 70's and AC-80's hits (probably not 90's yet), but very similar to what's on KFRC.

Because what you described was just an oldies station with the 60's stuff and some 70's added. You did NOT describe a classic hits format.

So, why did you slam me David? What's with the flip flop? Only now because a major player showed you up?

Since the classic hits format was invented for KRCD in LA in 1970, I have hardly been shown up. When KFRC "returned" with a new format, the market already had two classic hits stations... KBRG and KSJO. Nobody showed anybody up... I've been doing classic hits for 8 years; 70's and 80's based gold.

He also claimed putting CBS-FM back on as if it never left was a mistake. When CBS-FM left, it was 60's HEAVY 70's and 80's. Would never work, right? Won't bill. Flip Flop now.

I said it would be a mistake; they have not done it so neither of us knows. But CBS-FM was very much an oldies station. The playlist was predominantly 60's. A classc hits station plays far less 60's, if any.

If you play 60's other than a couple of "songs that trnascend" you will turn off the under-50 or under-55 liste ners, and be very 55+ in composition, and, thus, be unsalable. You can't sell a station where most listeners are over 55, and anyone who likes 60's oldies today is predominatly 55+.

When it comes from US, it's no good. It has to come down from the hand of God to make him a believer. Funny how we're ahead of the game and have been calling for this kind of format for how long now?????

I was doing the format 8 years ago. And right now, I am responsible for 12 such station.

 

[lash]

Flip Flop!

Oldies works on a market by market basis. Classic Hits works in other markets. Sorry, call the format what you want. Call the stations what you want. Its still oldies! And it still works!

Take at look at the CBS run oldies stations. They are very solid! I'd like to see the list of 12 stations that Mr. Flip Flop programs.

Please share!

 

[wgliradio]

1) You knew exactly what I meant. I know that pre Beatles music is not any good for the lazy way radio sells anymore.
2) CBS-FM was mainly 70's towards the end. Most 60's hits were only the most well tested (you know that phrase).
3) You have been shown up. You never expected to see a KFRC back. It is.

 

[wgliradio]

Flip Flop!

Oldies works on a market by market basis. Classic Hits works in other markets. Sorry, call the format what you want. Call the stations what you want. Its still oldies! And it still works!

Take at look at the CBS run oldies stations. They are very solid! I'd like to see the list of 12 stations that Mr. Flip Flop programs.

Please share!

He could spin numbers in a way to make you think Nome Alaska was an attractive place for sunbathers in January. Why bother?

 

[lash]

You never expected to see a KFRC back. It is.

Your right about that. I believe I read a post where he said San Francisco is not a good market for this format. Country has returned as well.

Didn't he just post that old heritage call letters are not good either.

K F R C

Doesn't get any better than that!

 

[davideduardo]

Oldies works on a market by market basis.

No, it does not. Oldies, which is defined in the industry as either songs of the 50's and 60's or just the 60's, does the same thing in all markets: it gets mostly 55+ audience, which is impossible to sell. Some stations, in big highly fragmented markets, have enough 25-54 to be comepetitive only because the 25-54 is so divided that an oldies station ranks well enough to get on buys.

Classic Hits works in other markets. Sorry, call the format what you want.

The names are industry standard... "oldies" is 60's. Classic hits is 70's and 80's. They are absolutely different formats.

Call the stations what you want. Its still oldies! And it still works!

Oldies does not work, because it is old and getting older, and there is no agency business for 55+. And, under your standards, "oldies" is the name of any format that does not play current music. "Classic rock" would then be oldies. The fact is, classic hits is a dfferent format. One that is viable and sustainable in 25-54-.

Take at look at the CBS run oldies stations. They are very solid!

They are mostly declining in revenue, and 25-54 ratings. Look form most to become classic hits IF KFRC works.

I'd like to see the list of 12 stations that Mr. Flip Flop programs. Please share!

KRCD-LA (Top 10 25-54)
KLQV-San Diego
KBRG-San Francisco
KRDA-Fresno
KRGT-Las Vegas
KQMR-Phoenix
KOVE-Houston (Top 4 PPM)
KLNO Dallas
KINV - Austin
KBTQ . McAllen
KCOR San Antoniio
KKRG - Albuquerque

ow many classic hits stations do you program?

 

[davideduardo]

He could spin numbers in a way to make you think Nome Alaska was an attractive place for sunbathers in January. Why bother?

I have always believed in 70's to 90's based adult hits. I do not believe in oldies because it is not economically viable, and radio is a buisness. One format works, the other does not.

I did my first classic hits format 8 years ago... so I can very credibly say I agree with that format.

 

[davideduardo]

1) You knew exactly what I meant. I know that pre Beatles music is not any good for the lazy way radio sells anymore.

Nobody can sell 55+ at the agency level because agencies are instructed not to buy 55+ by their cleints.

2) CBS-FM was mainly 70's towards the end. Most 60's hits were only the most well tested (you know that phrase).

If it was playing 60's, it was an oldies station. 60's songs do not research at all to the classic hits core.

3) You have been shown up. You never expected to see a KFRC back. It is.

KFRC is not back; it is a new staiton on a new frequency with a new format. The only thing they did was use some calls that may or may not have equity in the market.

And they are the third classic hits station in the market, so this is nothing new.

 

[davideduardo]

You never expected to see a KFRC back. It is.

No, actually, it is not. The format, the talent, the music, the presentation... none are back. What there is is a new classic hits station using the KFRC calls, not an oldies staiton. Nothing is back except the calls.

Your right about that. I believe I read a post where he said San Francisco is not a good market for this format.

It is not a good oldies market, because, as the 4th market nationally, nearly all business is transactional and a 55+ core is not salable. That is why the new KFRC is not an oldies station.

Didn't he just post that old heritage call letters are not good either.

I don't think that was a good idea. The KFRC demo will rapidly see that this is not an oldies staiton, and the classic hits demo will not care. In other words, they could have called it Kangaroo 106.9 and it would have just as good a chance.

 

[lash]

The constant ramblings of a mad.....well you know

 

[lash]

Did anyone else research the classic hits stations posted above? KOVE is in Wyoming, and not Houston. While others are regional mexican formatted stations. The ones that list classic hits, are also spanish programmed.

These are completely different formats than what we are talking about. Please research KOOL-Phoenix. WOGL-Philly WODS-Boston and others.

The answer to another question above. How many classic hits stations have I programmed. One! And that's one more than you.

 

[wgliradio]

I have always believed in 70's to 90's based adult hits. I do not believe in oldies because it is not economically viable, and radio is a buisness. One format works, the other does not.

I did my first classic hits format 8 years ago... so I can very credibly say I agree with that format.

First of all, I don't agree with the 70's-90's. I do believe in the POPULAR 60's, 70's and AC-80's hits format. Depending on the song, there are very few 90's cuts that should be paired here.

And you still can't flip flop. You've said yourself how important the younger half of the 25-54 demo is... and how it takes 2-3 years to build a new format... that the median age is 37... and would be in their 40's before this format takes off.. making this format, in your world... towards the upper half of 25-54 and moving into your "out of touch to lazy to sell" territory.

Flip Flop.