• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

107.7 The End- multiple stations on their air last night

Regardless of who is responsible, it seems pretty unprofessional to let this issue occur without making some sort of change. I don’t imagine that their advertisers are particularly happy when something like this occurs, especially if it’s a recurring issue.
Most of the spots after 10PM are bonus-comped. Agencies don't buy ads specifically for nights. It's been that way for years.

I'm not saying the problem isn't worth fixing. What I'm saying is the accusations, finger-pointing and outrage here by assuming nobody cares is misplaced. As with anything, I'm sure there's more behind the scenes than just listening to the radio is going to reveal.
 
I completely agree with the sentiment that advertisers wouldn't be happy with their spots being played over something else, but as far as I'm aware, they wouldn't find that out unless someone actually complains about it. When Snohomish County Council of the Blind advertised on KRKO and KKXA, we got an email early in the morning telling us when to listen for our spot. Often though, life got in the way and I wouldn't actually be near a radio to hear it. Do these add agencies have people in each market that would be constantly monitoring? I would think that impractical. Perhaps though my story doesn't reflect that of most advertisers, as although we heard from a number of people that they had heard our spot, it didn't translate into new memberships or increased meeting attendance.
 
Do these add agencies have people in each market that would be constantly monitoring? I would think that impractical. Perhaps though my story doesn't reflect that of most advertisers, as although we heard from a number of people that they had heard our spot, it didn't translate into new memberships or increased meeting attendance.
Didn't read my post did you? Night spots when this would have happened are usually comp for a larger contract.
 
I completely agree with the sentiment that advertisers wouldn't be happy with their spots being played over something else, but as far as I'm aware, they wouldn't find that out unless someone actually complains about it. When Snohomish County Council of the Blind advertised on KRKO and KKXA, we got an email early in the morning telling us when to listen for our spot. Often though, life got in the way and I wouldn't actually be near a radio to hear it. Do these add agencies have people in each market that would be constantly monitoring? I would think that impractical. Perhaps though my story doesn't reflect that of most advertisers, as although we heard from a number of people that they had heard our spot, it didn't translate into new memberships or increased meeting attendance.
As Kelly said, spots at that time are free bonus spots. If the realize the issue, they may schedule make goods.

Stations certify broadcast based on the data from the system that electronically “logs” the spots. invoices are “certified” as being “to the best of our knowledge” by the station. Nobody pays attention to the sots late at night or in overnights.
 
Last edited:
I completely agree with the sentiment that advertisers wouldn't be happy with their spots being played over something else, but as far as I'm aware, they wouldn't find that out unless someone actually complains about it. When Snohomish County Council of the Blind advertised on KRKO and KKXA, we got an email early in the morning telling us when to listen for our spot. Often though, life got in the way and I wouldn't actually be near a radio to hear it. Do these add agencies have people in each market that would be constantly monitoring? I would think that impractical. Perhaps though my story doesn't reflect that of most advertisers, as although we heard from a number of people that they had heard our spot, it didn't translate into new memberships or increased meeting attendance.
David is spot on with the software “logging” that a spot played. It’s a bit of a grey area if the software fails to log that it actually played (in the event of technical difficulties where the computer thinks that everything is status quo while the station is technically off the air).

I never had the chance to work in a major market, but I’ve run into scenarios where large clients don’t really seem to notice if something doesn’t get played. They don’t have the time to monitor the station all of the time, and they assume that all spots are being played (or rescheduled if they are missed for some reason). On the other side of the coin, sometimes small clients listen more carefully to make sure that the spot plays when they expect it to.
 
Most of the spots after 10PM are bonus-comped. Agencies don't buy ads specifically for nights. It's been that way for years.

I'm not saying the problem isn't worth fixing. What I'm saying is the accusations, finger-pointing and outrage here by assuming nobody cares is misplaced. As with anything, I'm sure there's more behind the scenes than just listening to the radio is going to reveal.
I personally do not feel that anyone in charge of the Seattle Audacy cluster should shoulder any of the blame. The new structure of Audacy is a top down decision, and there have clearly been some flaws with getting the content out from one central station to all of the other affiliates effectively. As you already described, it’s a rather intricate system (one which is not immune to technical challenges). Perhaps there is an advantage to just running automated programming that originates in-house overnight to eliminate the need to sync up with a national feed. At this point, it’s probably more reliable.
 
That sounds like their local audio routing scheme isn't switching to the locally recorded-whatever.
Stations handle this workflow/process differently: Some will have their station automation send a GPO command (general purpose output) to an audio console fader channel to mute the incoming network, or in this case, another station' programming when a local break is supposed to run. At the same time, another GPO triggers the local automation to play-local-whatever via a different fader at the same console. The problem with this process; is whomever was the last person manually running the board (console) must properly set up the console with the proper faders up or down before they leave for the night. In my example; if the fader(s) for the local break aren't left up, or the wrong faders up or down, one could easily get this sort of thing happening.
The other way stations do this sort of thing; is by using a in-house core audio router, or a small separate router which the local automation turns various sources on or off when triggered by the local automation GPO.
Of course the third possibility; could be they're having intermittent break triggers being sent down the line from the NYC station. If the local automation doesn't hear a trigger, whatever audio coming down the line stays up locally with no local break being triggered.
These last gremlins mentioned are a bitch to troubleshoot sometimes, because they're so intermittent. Unless one has access to very expensive network monitoring software like Splunk!, the alternative (pardon the pun), is to have their one engineer camp out all night to see if they can catch it happening. That's assuming of course it happens when you're sitting at the station those particular nights.
So there are radio stations that don't set up the obvious? It is so simple to have a bypass switch so that when the station is unattended, the console is bypassed. In our small market, we run six formats out of our building, and never in twenty years have we had a problem with multiple feeds to a station, and never had a problem with an audio console fader being set wrong. We have had the morning person forget to flip the bypass switch, however.
 
I never had the chance to work in a major market, but I’ve run into scenarios where large clients don’t really seem to notice if something doesn’t get played. They don’t have the time to monitor the station all of the time, and they assume that all spots are being played (or rescheduled if they are missed for some reason). On the other side of the coin, sometimes small clients listen more carefully to make sure that the spot plays when they expect it to.
About 46 years ago at WQII and WSRA in San Juan I did the market's first computerized scheduling and billing system. We put in a huge (like a big CEO's desk in size) IBM System 33 and a printer the size of a refrigerator, and I spent a week in Boulder, Colorado, training for the project.

Every invoice showed the exact time of every spot run, including make goods and credits. Since 95% of our business was from agencies, we got an amazing initial response when our first invoices had page after page of actual schedules. The bills were shown all around the shops as an example of "the new way to do things". We know that we wrote a lot of business when the deciding factor in a buy was "those people guarantee that the spots ran".

We take this for granted now, but long ago clients were not sure if their spots actually ran. Proving that they did was, at that time, a significant sales tool!
 
So there are radio stations that don't set up the obvious? It is so simple to have a bypass switch so that when the station is unattended, the console is bypassed.
But in the middle of the night with nobody home, bypass to what?
In our small market, we run six formats out of our building, and never in twenty years have we had a problem with multiple feeds to a station, and never had a problem with an audio console fader being set wrong. We have had the morning person forget to flip the bypass switch, however.
Flip the switch, enable a router, turn up a fader, or clicking a button on a GUI, it's still potentially a human error which could cause a problem in advance of being unattended.
 
So there are radio stations that don't set up the obvious? It is so simple to have a bypass switch so that when the station is unattended, the console is bypassed. In our small market, we run six formats out of our building, and never in twenty years have we had a problem with multiple feeds to a station, and never had a problem with an audio console fader being set wrong. We have had the morning person forget to flip the bypass switch, however.
Exactly what I'm wondering as well - - especially in Seattle-proper. Maybe I'm spoiled using Nexgen most of my radio life (and Prophet Wizard before that) - the default is that the board is bypassed - - you specifically run a macro to run everything through the board. When a live show is finished, it's back to auto mode (bypass) - - everything is handled between the audio server and the switch. I figured most higher-end automation systems were similar?

Leaving two pots up for an incoming show with a hot board is just something I would never ever consider in this day - - that said - - if there's an issue with the switch or macros I could see this happening - - automation triggers a macro to change the source, someone leaves the switch in manual mode or there's a loose connection or mouse-nibbled wire (been there) - - the serial command doesn't make it correctly to the switch - - and multiple channels get left on... There ya go.

That said... Not one person is listening? In Seattle? I really do wonder if we pay attention more to our smaller stations in smaller markets...
 
Last edited:
My point exactly.
 
They had just completed a major automation upgrade along with a big audio network change at the same time. From what I’ve heard they just missed that one in a massive 1 week upgrade.
 
Unfortunately, this happens fairly often when you're using programming from one station to fit the needs of other stations throughout the country.
But it doesn't have to. Pretty easy to make it work, I do here and it CAN'T mess up... Maybe Audacy should take a look at making me a programmer in Seattle. I'm in if the salary is in the $180,000 to $200,000 range [snark]
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom