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1150 -- wassup w/those guys??
- Thread starter RBW
- Start date
It seems like to me every market has a dominate news talker. In Syracuse, it's WSYR, Utica-WIBX, Rochester -WHAM, Buffalo -WBEN etc. Albany does have an up and coming against WGY but I think it is different because it is the state capitol. Major markets like NYC, Chicago, L. A. can support more than one talker. Ironically in L. A., one of the successful (but second tier) stations is on 1150 and is progressive talk and where Stephanie Miller does her show from -morning drive.
Right wingers pray to the God of O'Reily but he gave up his radio show. He just didn't get the clearances on major stations in major markets. Hence no numbers. So what I am saying is that if you want to be successful in the situation of 1150 in Utica or in Syracuse you need to be unique. WSYR and WIBX have the right shows and news departments to back them up. And don't forget there are more than 30,000 people up on the Hill in Syracuse hungry for programs like Stephanie Miller and Ed Shultz. They are educated, have incomes, and are a great younger demo. Something that AM doesn't seem to go after at least not in Central N. Y.
Right wingers pray to the God of O'Reily but he gave up his radio show. He just didn't get the clearances on major stations in major markets. Hence no numbers. So what I am saying is that if you want to be successful in the situation of 1150 in Utica or in Syracuse you need to be unique. WSYR and WIBX have the right shows and news departments to back them up. And don't forget there are more than 30,000 people up on the Hill in Syracuse hungry for programs like Stephanie Miller and Ed Shultz. They are educated, have incomes, and are a great younger demo. Something that AM doesn't seem to go after at least not in Central N. Y.
therealjm12 said:
Hmmmm... That paragraph tells me a few things. If they're a "great younger demo", then I'm assuming that means under 35? Which probably also means YES, they're most likely in the Obama camp. Most of their education, again, may of come from professors (and associated classes) for whom spoke highly of a left-leaning democracy. It would however, seem unlikely to me that these younger, highly educated demos, would listen to AM radio... even if it presented their point of view. And I don't think that's unique to just central NY. This seems to be one of the reasons (although not officially validated) why WGY 810 is NOW simulcasting on 103.1 --- Time will tell how THAT turns out!
Take It Outside in 3... 2... 1...
Aw, come on Nine don't ya feel the love? I do agree that this thread had slightly turned into politics and I don't think anyone meant to do that. So back on subject. What would you (anyone) do with 1150 in Utica?
Aw, come on Nine don't ya feel the love? I do agree that this thread had slightly turned into politics and I don't think anyone meant to do that. So back on subject. What would you (anyone) do with 1150 in Utica?
U
useddj
Guest
Well you are all gonna think Im all wet..but I think a Adult Standards format might do pretty well considering that it would be broadcast on 3 stations and actually cover good portion of CNY. When anyone has attempted that format it has always been on a low power AM..."lets just throw it on there..to fill up the air". Given a decent signal perhaps it could do well. NO IT WONT BE #1, but I bet they could get some good advertising dollars. Keep in mind, in 1993 WFBL was Music of Your Life (1390)and it was pretty competitive 12+ in the Arbitron, then was moved to 1050, where it couldn't be heard atnight. TLA came on and took a chunk of the audience. However TLA is no more, and frankly I think there is still a possible hole for that format especially if we are talking, Syracuse, Oneida and Utica!!! PLUS that audience is use to listening to music on AM.
Just a thought...again it may not work...but you asked. :
Just a thought...again it may not work...but you asked. :
Not saying Standards wouldn't work in Utica or Syracuse, but the format is a roll of the dice more now than it was ten years ago. It's nowhere near the sure thing it may have been 20 years ago, when Al Hamm's "Music Of Your Life" stations were steady but on the brink of falling off the table. Oldies, especially on FM, really hurt the MOYL stations because it took away the "lower end" of the MOYL ratings success and left MOYL stations with 55+. Oldies offered the Baby Boom generation a format that it loved: Four Tops, Stones, Temptations, Beatles, Elvis, Supremes, Four Seasons. Oldies was a younger version of Music Of Your Life/Standards and an "older" version of Classic Hits.
Classic Hits has about five years of legs before it's forced to feature much more music from the 80s in order to survive and deliver 45-50 year olds. Classic Hits does very well these days, but its primarily a 70s format. Do the math: Playing 35-40 year old songs attracts listeners who are 45-55 years old. Not bad today. Five years from now? Not so much.
Playing songs that are 45 years old puts a station in the Oldies category. Playing songs that are 55 years old is Standards' bailiwick. Listener perception and differentiation get pretty foggy around this point. What's the difference between Standards and Oldies?
Standards is primarily a "Great American Song Book" format: Count Basie, Sinatra, Glenn Miller, Andrews Sisters, Johnny Mathis, Barbra Streisand and the like. Problem is, Standards hits the 65-70 demo. An Oldies/Standards hybrid might be a better approach, offering music centered around 1955-65, which would be the sweet spot of the format. If a listener was 10 in 1955... 65 today. You can see where this is going.
We haven't even touched on the fact that a lot of "older" listeners want to hear their favorite music on something better than a noisy, crackly AM station, preferring FM. Used to be radio people would say, "Hell, those old people don't care if it's AM, they just wanna hear their songs." Maybe that was true twenty or ten years ago, but that kind of logic is less than accurate these days. So if you're thinking of putting Oldies/Standards on an AM, you'd want the audio to sound as clean as possible inside the 5 mv/m contour.
Elvis, Roy Orbison, early Beatles, Four Seasons, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Dusty Springfield, Neil Diamond, Drifters... all great artists for Oldies/Standards. Play the music/artists that Classic Hits stations won't touch. If a station can sell 55-65 demos and make a profit, the format is viable, at least for about five years. But if it's going to be done, please make it sound good, not like some iPod on life support or worse, somebody's cassette tape collection.
Classic Hits has about five years of legs before it's forced to feature much more music from the 80s in order to survive and deliver 45-50 year olds. Classic Hits does very well these days, but its primarily a 70s format. Do the math: Playing 35-40 year old songs attracts listeners who are 45-55 years old. Not bad today. Five years from now? Not so much.
Playing songs that are 45 years old puts a station in the Oldies category. Playing songs that are 55 years old is Standards' bailiwick. Listener perception and differentiation get pretty foggy around this point. What's the difference between Standards and Oldies?
Standards is primarily a "Great American Song Book" format: Count Basie, Sinatra, Glenn Miller, Andrews Sisters, Johnny Mathis, Barbra Streisand and the like. Problem is, Standards hits the 65-70 demo. An Oldies/Standards hybrid might be a better approach, offering music centered around 1955-65, which would be the sweet spot of the format. If a listener was 10 in 1955... 65 today. You can see where this is going.
We haven't even touched on the fact that a lot of "older" listeners want to hear their favorite music on something better than a noisy, crackly AM station, preferring FM. Used to be radio people would say, "Hell, those old people don't care if it's AM, they just wanna hear their songs." Maybe that was true twenty or ten years ago, but that kind of logic is less than accurate these days. So if you're thinking of putting Oldies/Standards on an AM, you'd want the audio to sound as clean as possible inside the 5 mv/m contour.
Elvis, Roy Orbison, early Beatles, Four Seasons, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Dusty Springfield, Neil Diamond, Drifters... all great artists for Oldies/Standards. Play the music/artists that Classic Hits stations won't touch. If a station can sell 55-65 demos and make a profit, the format is viable, at least for about five years. But if it's going to be done, please make it sound good, not like some iPod on life support or worse, somebody's cassette tape collection.
Jim good post points well made without insulting us geezers!
How about this: A format that is like MOR radio from the '70's, '80's and even '90's with Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Henry Mancini, John Denver, Helen Reddy, Whitney Houston, Linda Ronstadt, Celine Dion, Vanessa Williams, Basia. Carpenters, Beatles, Bee Gees, Supremes and other soft rock that would fit an adult music format.
There is a bunch of good product that gets ignored today from the '70's, '80's and even '90's. There are songs from the '50's and '60's that could be sprinkled in as gold.
You would think that Elton John and Billy Joel were the only ones making music in the '70's from listening to the A/C stations where I live. On top of that they seem to play maybe 3 or 4 songs tops from those two, over and over.
Do you think something like this would have legs?
How about this: A format that is like MOR radio from the '70's, '80's and even '90's with Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Henry Mancini, John Denver, Helen Reddy, Whitney Houston, Linda Ronstadt, Celine Dion, Vanessa Williams, Basia. Carpenters, Beatles, Bee Gees, Supremes and other soft rock that would fit an adult music format.
There is a bunch of good product that gets ignored today from the '70's, '80's and even '90's. There are songs from the '50's and '60's that could be sprinkled in as gold.
You would think that Elton John and Billy Joel were the only ones making music in the '70's from listening to the A/C stations where I live. On top of that they seem to play maybe 3 or 4 songs tops from those two, over and over.
Do you think something like this would have legs?
Mike Sheridan said:
The amount of "pull" I have with anyone barely extends beyond my wife......BUT, as a listener (and middle-aged geezer) that sounds like a potential winner! I'd certainly listen to that. However...... in Utica, that more or less already exists with B95.5 (1480 and 1550)... again however, those signals barely get OUT of Utica... except for daytime on WADR. Syracuse could use it, since they recently lost 1200 to ESPN.
Maybe someone WITH pull could work on it
U
useddj
Guest
Yes that is kind of what I was thinking...I didnt necessarily mean BIG BAND all the time... up until early 80's people were listening to AM for their "pop" hits, Reddy, Denver, Sinatra, Houston, Ronstadt, and NO AC station is playing those tunes.
And I agree with Mike...thanks for a conversation without insulting us "geezers"! ... Im mean Im not that old...dont need the blue pill..yet! ;D
And I agree with Mike...thanks for a conversation without insulting us "geezers"! ... Im mean Im not that old...dont need the blue pill..yet! ;D
useddj said:
I'm glad you guys understood what I was going for. As for the Big Band, it could be done as a weekend show or something if there was any interest in it from listeners.
For her birthday my 28 year old daughter wanted to go to this trendy Deli for her birthday dinner. There were people of all ages there, a lot of young people. The place had XM blasting 40's on 4 so you just never know what people will listen to!
The problem with a nostalgia format on 1150 is that it was done before. Regent had the ABC Stardust format on it for a couple years. It really sounded pretty good -very professional. I don't know how much was local but there was a lot of local input. They really made it sound local & live. I really liked the music mix, too. Pretty much what people here have been talking about. Problem is that format is pretty much now on WADR/WUTQ and their FM translator, and I believe with the same P. D. that was at 1150. Sports was tried on 1150 and they even had the Yankees -the hometown favorite. Also religion was tried and failed. They even similcast WIBX for a while. The east/west directional signal complimented WIBX's mostly north/south pattern. No suggestions here just pointing out what was tried and failed on 1150 and keeping the thread going.
A
Adman4120
Guest
Hi Everyone...Just wanted to offer a couple of thoughts. The WIBX signal pattern is pretty much North, Northwest and East. They are terrible West and South. Obviously, they are protecting WWJ in Detroit on 950 and even WROC in Rochester. In addition, they have some bad nulls right in Oneida County or, problems because of a lack of many other factors. All I know is that the WIBX signal in many parts of the market is not what it used to be. To protect the innocent or guilty, I will leave that determination up to all of you.
Speaking about what could work on 1150...I have no doubt in my mind that all sports would work and make money, IF, done properly, and that means a lot of local sports. You cannot count just Yankees and other pro sports on 1150 before. Same thing with ESPN in Utica. Without local sports, they are still not that much of a factor at all. Local sports talk like WIBX, local play-by-play like WIBX equals plenty of sales dollars. I am not saying this would work in all markets, but in Utica/Rome it does and always has. I have first hand experience in what local sports can produce revenue wise. What I think should really happen is for Townsquare Media to get smart, and make WODZ at 96.1 all sports and dump the Oldiez. It's just a waste in its current form and a giveaway station. But again, smart decisions don't come easy in today's media world.
Speaking about what could work on 1150...I have no doubt in my mind that all sports would work and make money, IF, done properly, and that means a lot of local sports. You cannot count just Yankees and other pro sports on 1150 before. Same thing with ESPN in Utica. Without local sports, they are still not that much of a factor at all. Local sports talk like WIBX, local play-by-play like WIBX equals plenty of sales dollars. I am not saying this would work in all markets, but in Utica/Rome it does and always has. I have first hand experience in what local sports can produce revenue wise. What I think should really happen is for Townsquare Media to get smart, and make WODZ at 96.1 all sports and dump the Oldiez. It's just a waste in its current form and a giveaway station. But again, smart decisions don't come easy in today's media world.
WIBX on 950 predates Rochester on 950. The western null in the WIBX pattern is entirely to protect WWJ, which is far and away the senior occupant of the channel; whatever protection is provided to Rochester is just coincidental. (Though the null to Detroit did allow 950 in Rochester to come on the air in the first place back in 1947.)
An All Sports format on 1150 with the emphasis on local HS football, soccer, basketball and baseball might make a better option than an Oldies/Standards format.
Just the same, an All Sports format isn't an inexpensive venture. It might have a chance by employing independent contractors that are paid to do PBP (including set-up and tear down) on a per-game basis.
Another option: Commissioned PBP men/women who sold advertising schedules for their respective games. There are inherent problems with this approach, however, because there may be sales men and women who are very good at selling their product but not so good at producing the product, that is, calling PBP.
And there's the traditional approach, a salaried sports staff that does everything from PBP, stats, production, hosting shows (but not selling them) and website production, especially writing and analyzing. Now more than ever, a news talk/sports talk station must have a good, active, up to the minute, non-generic website and content.
In this regard, as with any format, a good sales department that understands the format and the mission would be absolutely essential. You can have the best local features and PBP, but if it's not sold, nobody gets paid and the station goes broke. Lights out. Fast.
Serious, non-judgmental question: Are quality sales people available? Or are they selling music radio formats on the established stations because it's more consistently lucrative and offers the path of least resistance? You cannot fault a guy/lady making 50k selling the market-leading music formats for wanting to stay where they are rather than roll the dice and selling All Sports talk radio.
Another requirement: Talented, disciplined game producers-operators and production people. This position is difficult to fill because the shelf-life is limited. Yes, I know HCCC, Utica College, SUNY Oneonta and Syracuse produce a wealth of talent with every graduating class. But good board-ops and producers want to be rewarded with better paying jobs. The glamor of being in radio, making 6.50 and hour and living with three roomies wears off after about six months. Plus, mom and dad want to see a return on their investment. Who can blame employees for wanting "bigger, better and more money.?" Producers often want benefits and their own shows, recognition for their skills and contributions that make the guys who are on the air a success.
The PD of an all news-all sports station needs to be a good teacher, a patient talent developer and a good people manager... and be content with living in Utica-Rome (not knocking the area) as well. Nobody said it would be easy. I'm referring to pulling off the format... not referring to living in U-R.
Just the same, an All Sports format isn't an inexpensive venture. It might have a chance by employing independent contractors that are paid to do PBP (including set-up and tear down) on a per-game basis.
Another option: Commissioned PBP men/women who sold advertising schedules for their respective games. There are inherent problems with this approach, however, because there may be sales men and women who are very good at selling their product but not so good at producing the product, that is, calling PBP.
And there's the traditional approach, a salaried sports staff that does everything from PBP, stats, production, hosting shows (but not selling them) and website production, especially writing and analyzing. Now more than ever, a news talk/sports talk station must have a good, active, up to the minute, non-generic website and content.
In this regard, as with any format, a good sales department that understands the format and the mission would be absolutely essential. You can have the best local features and PBP, but if it's not sold, nobody gets paid and the station goes broke. Lights out. Fast.
Serious, non-judgmental question: Are quality sales people available? Or are they selling music radio formats on the established stations because it's more consistently lucrative and offers the path of least resistance? You cannot fault a guy/lady making 50k selling the market-leading music formats for wanting to stay where they are rather than roll the dice and selling All Sports talk radio.
Another requirement: Talented, disciplined game producers-operators and production people. This position is difficult to fill because the shelf-life is limited. Yes, I know HCCC, Utica College, SUNY Oneonta and Syracuse produce a wealth of talent with every graduating class. But good board-ops and producers want to be rewarded with better paying jobs. The glamor of being in radio, making 6.50 and hour and living with three roomies wears off after about six months. Plus, mom and dad want to see a return on their investment. Who can blame employees for wanting "bigger, better and more money.?" Producers often want benefits and their own shows, recognition for their skills and contributions that make the guys who are on the air a success.
The PD of an all news-all sports station needs to be a good teacher, a patient talent developer and a good people manager... and be content with living in Utica-Rome (not knocking the area) as well. Nobody said it would be easy. I'm referring to pulling off the format... not referring to living in U-R.
JimPastrick said:
Which is why it won't happen at a station like this. As you point out, the people required to do this kind of programming need to be high quality, and there are limited ways of re-selling the content to make it worth while.
JimPastrick said:
Depends. It's a huge risk to leave a good paying job for the unknown. Local high school sports is not going to be a big money maker. High cost, low return. If this is the only signal in the market you own, and you can't spread the costs over other stations, there's no way to make the money work. Do a budget, based on a staff of 12 people, rotating teams of 4 people per game. What price do you need to get per spot to make a profit? Does that price fit the projected rating?
I just don't see a sports format working on 1150. You already have the tricast of ESPN on WTLB/WRNY/WIXT. Maybe if Galaxy had bought WRUN they wouldn't need to run the format on the other three stations since 1150 pretty much covers the market by itself. WIBX does a great job with local sports and local high school games. So why would anyone want to bang their heads against that wall? I still don't see a hole where a format will fit in the Utica-Rome market on a stand alone AM. Still have to go with progressive talk. At least it's not being done. Barter? Barter what? Who would listen to the station to buy the products being promoted?
Now I hear the sale went thru to Leatherstocking. $130K. That seems like a low ball figure until you figure they need an entire new antenna system. That's got to be at least another $200K
Now I hear the sale went thru to Leatherstocking. $130K. That seems like a low ball figure until you figure they need an entire new antenna system. That's got to be at least another $200K
C
CNYRadio.com
Guest
therealjm12 said:
I was the PD of Lite 98.7 when Regent was running Stardust on WRUN. The man behind that effort was our Ops Manager at the time, Tom Jacobsen. He's now the OM of the Townsquare cluster in Albany, so I'm pretty sure he has nothing to do with the standards format currently running at Roser.
U
useddj
Guest
therealjm12 said:
Uhhh I wouldn't count on Leatherstocking spending any money to fix that antenna system....or anything else. It looks to me like they are buying low and planning to hold in order to sell high. Could be a long wait....but who knows.
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