12+ is here

[NotSoSilentBob]

Just having a little fun with a book that will be hard to read. Thanks, Jack.

The Rock is the people's champion
The Beat jamz its way into second place
Mix recorded its worst book in ages
SIX lives up to its name, if you know what I mean
Jack plays what he wants, and apparently people like it
The Wolf continues to increase its audience, but so does The Big 98 of Love
92Q became the choice for more adults recently
WKDF: We're Knee Deep in Failure
The River's audience keeps floating away
WTN picked up a couple of listeners that got tired of WLAC
Oldies wished on a Star and boosted its numbers
102.9 buzzed its way up a bit
Some of WSM-AM's listners must have died
The Zone missed a layup and lost a couple of points
Lightning struck again for 100.1. They're back up where they belong.
The Fish gets past its negative child porn publicity and gets a couple of its guppies back
When will The Party ever end at 102.5? If they keep these numbers, perhaps soon.

and from here on out, does it really matter?

Yeah, okay, one more. Thanks to Dan Patrick, WNFN got about 3 new listeners.<P ID="signature">______________
Bob
Moderator, Nashville board
Radio-Info.com--Always Tuned In

"I don't spread rumors, but I sometimes make outrageous speculations with no factual basis."</P>

 

[Wazzie]

Putting any stock into 12+ numbers is absurd. Let's take a look at the 18-54 numbers, THEN we can talk intelligently.

 

[Evangelist]

> Putting any stock into 12+ numbers is absurd. Let's take a
> look at the 18-54 numbers, THEN we can talk intelligently.
>

Good point.

And it's really too early to make any long-term predictions about Jack or Oldies 97, since the changes are fairly new. Some of the increased listening may be out of curiosity.

 

[romer979fm]

> > Putting any stock into 12+ numbers is absurd. Let's take
> a
> > look at the 18-54 numbers, THEN we can talk intelligently.
>
> >
>
> Good point.

not really: NSSB was just pointing out the numbers that
everyone has access to...we all know what 12+ is worth


> And it's really too early to make any long-term predictions
> about Jack or Oldies 97, since the changes are fairly new.
> Some of the increased listening may be out of curiosity.
>

that's the kind of go-getter attitude I'm looking for
for my new EM-50 project (from "Stripes")<P ID="signature">______________
you're not a lawyer, are you?</P>

 

[tibbs]

Thanks to all of you for killing any lively
conversation or arguments by using the same
"12+ is worthless" prepared sentence
and the every tenth post "long-term vs.
short-term" catchphrase.

What could have been such an exciting day
has been effectively been stopped by those
professing radio logic. Yawn!

"Bummerman delivers" - Nina Banks, Father of the Bride

Other than that?

Anybody notice Jack was playing more upbeat
80's hits today? Or is it to early to listen?

 

[OldiesCat]

12+ is the y-a-w-n

You're missing the point that nobody but NOBODY puts much stock in 12+ numbers.
If you play "fantasy radio", it's understandable they are the only Arbitron numbers published but in the real world of radio they mean next to nothing.

Even 18-54 is too broad and a demo nobody sells.

Talk 18-34 and 25-54 all you like because these are the demos that determine how young and how adult stations are truly performing.

Lively conversation doesn't come from one person getting all jacked up over one book or one trend- radio battles are not sprints but marathons, so we in the business can't get too bummed with a bad book and shouldn't get too full of ourselves over one great book.


> Thanks to all of you for killing any lively
> conversation or arguments by using the same
> "12+ is worthless" prepared sentence
> and the every tenth post "long-term vs.
> short-term" catchphrase.
>
> What could have been such an exciting day
> has been effectively been stopped by those
> professing radio logic. Yawn!
>
> "Bummerman delivers" - Nina Banks, Father of the Bride
>
> Other than that?
>
> Anybody notice Jack was playing more upbeat
> 80's hits today? Or is it to early to listen?
>

 

[RMarino]

12+ is here... and what to do about 102.5

Note that WCJK went up 0.6 from the last trend. Which probably means they had a pretty good first month.

Oldies 97 of course went up too, but as we all know, it's gaining in demos that won't matter anyway.

Also note that ALL THREE country FMs went up since the last trend. Apparently a lot of country listening took place in this final month.

And what to do about 102.5 The Party... The way I see it, they are trying too hard to sound like "The River" and quite frankly, they don't do a good job with it. They need to pick an angle and stick with it. Either switch to a Rhythmic CHR format and grab The River's younger demos and anyone whose musical taste falls in between The River and The Beat... Or if they don't like that idea, then go Hot AC and grab that wonderful 2.5 share that Star 97 had (of course Star was poorly programmed toward the end, I'm sure better ratings can be had by a Hot AC here.) But come on Cromwell, pick a side, an angle, a niche here with 102.5 because imitating 107.5's playlist just isn't gettin' it done!

 

[tibbs]

Re: 12+ is the y-a-w-n

> You're missing the point that nobody but NOBODY puts much
> stock in 12+ numbers.

That's right! I've only said that 100 times, compared to your
1,000 times on these boards. But, thanks for reminding me from
five minutes ago, on another board.

> If you play "fantasy radio", it's understandable they are
> the only Arbitron numbers published but in the real world of
> radio they mean next to nothing.
>


"Life Is Just A Fantasy!" - Aldo Nova (playing on Jack-FM, a
real world radio station with better ratings than 99% of
the Oldies stations in America.) Sorry, just telling the
truth, within 24%, there. 18-34. Haven't decided if that's
true for 25-54, but they're to old according to most folks
(joke part.) I'm sure you'll correct me.



> Even 18-54 is too broad and a demo nobody sells.

ok, thanks.

>
> Talk 18-34 and 25-54 all you like because these are the
> demos that determine how young and how adult stations are
> truly performing.

ok, thanks.

> Lively conversation doesn't come from one person getting all
> jacked up over one book or one trend- radio battles are not
> sprints but marathons, so we in the business can't get too
> bummed with a bad book and shouldn't get too full of
> ourselves over one great book.

OC ------------

Geez, I was just having a little fun. I forgot, the
room monitor says radio is serious. We have no fun.

We ALL know 12+ sux. Okay? Unless we're from Jacksonville.
(See Northern FL board, if you dare.)

You need a vacation. Is it ski season in Detroit?
Maybe I'll come visit.

 

[romer979fm]

Re: 12+ is the y-a-w-n

OC ------------
>
> Geez, I was just having a little fun. I forgot, the
> room monitor says radio is serious. We have no fun.
>
> We ALL know 12+ sux. Okay? Unless we're from Jacksonville.
> (See Northern FL board, if you dare.)
>
> You need a vacation. Is it ski season in Detroit?
> Maybe I'll come visit.
>

careful...or I'll go ask KM Richards from the LA board to police this joint...
(that's supposed to be humor, BTW)<P ID="signature">______________
you're not a lawyer, are you?</P>

 

[jetfli]

What's the problem in talking 12+ here? Sure, it skews the real money demos, but it's the only set of hard numbers that we can legally discuss on this board. And for those who don't work for a subscriber, it's the only numbers they see, and otherwise wouldn't be able to discuss with us.

A few random thoughts:

Is Mix losing a little ground to Jack? Does it matter since it's all in-house?

I (and many of you) continue to dine on crow while the Wolf's success plays in the background.

WKDF is waiting to see how they fare with the Titans season gearing up. You won't even see tweaking there until after Fall book.

The River is the station that's being hit hardest by the flight (from radio) of the iPod generation. 12+ is significant here.

WTN sure is doing better without SportsNight. WLAC is feeling the effect of a weak morning show and the lack of a strong local presence during prime hours.

97.1's switch to Oldies revitalized the format locally and will continue to prove a great move.

The Zone lost some of its listeners as the curious went over to see what Jack was about. They'll be back as Titans season gears up. 9-2 dropped the most, which put the nail in the coffin for the current programming there, as management realizes changes will bring new sales to that slot.

102.5? In my opinion, it's the parent company that stands in the way of success there. If I wanted to make some money of the frequency, I'd be looking for an LMA or a sale.

It still makes me sad 560's dropped off the list...

 

[OldiesCat]

12+

Hey, you got a personal issue with me, be a grown-up and communicate with me via my Email (which I do have listed).

If you don't have the maturity to deal with personal issues on a one-to-one basis, then keep in the thread's discussion topic.
>
> That's right! I've only said that 100 times, compared to
> your 1,000 times on these boards. But, thanks for reminding me
> from five minutes ago, on another board.
>
> > If you play "fantasy radio", it's understandable they are
> > the only Arbitron numbers published but in the real world
> of radio they mean next to nothing.
> >
>
>
> "Life Is Just A Fantasy!" - Aldo Nova (playing on Jack-FM, a
> real world radio station with better ratings than 99% of
> the Oldies stations in America.) Sorry, just telling the
> truth, within 24%, there. 18-34. Haven't decided if that's
> true for 25-54, but they're to old according to most folks
> (joke part.) I'm sure you'll correct me.
>
>
>
> > Even 18-54 is too broad and a demo nobody sells.
>
> ok, thanks.
>
> >
> > Talk 18-34 and 25-54 all you like because these are the
> > demos that determine how young and how adult stations are
> > truly performing.
>
> ok, thanks.
>
> > Lively conversation doesn't come from one person getting
> all
> > jacked up over one book or one trend- radio battles are
> not
> > sprints but marathons, so we in the business can't get too
>
> > bummed with a bad book and shouldn't get too full of
> > ourselves over one great book.
>
> OC ------------
>
> Geez, I was just having a little fun. I forgot, the
> room monitor says radio is serious. We have no fun.
>
> We ALL know 12+ sux. Okay? Unless we're from Jacksonville.
> (See Northern FL board, if you dare.)
>
> You need a vacation. Is it ski season in Detroit?
> Maybe I'll come visit.
>

 

[Gusdog]

Re: 12+

> If you don't have the maturity to deal with personal issues
> on a one-to-one basis, then keep in the thread's discussion

Which you claim is a moot point, since the numbers don't mean anything anyway. So what should we talk about?

BTW, OC, *I* don't have any personal issues with you.

 

[Wazzie]

Re: CHILL!

My only point was that 12+ numbers don't really mean anything in the real world. I live in a market where the #1 12+ station, ranks #16 in the 18-54.
If you want to discuss, please, feel free. I didn't mean to piss on your parade.

OldiesGuy... your line "Lively conversation doesn't come from one person getting all jacked up over one book or one trend- radio battles are not sprints but marathons, so we in the business can't get too bummed with a bad book and shouldn't get too full of ourselves over one great book".

Nice to see that SOMEBODY on this boards "gets it".

 

[NotSoSilentBob]

Re: CHILL!

CHILL is right. All of you. You're taking everything WAY too seriously.

We talk about 12+ because it's the only thing we all have access to, and we're radio geeks.

All of this is just for fun, it has no bearing on anything. Everything we talk about on this board is hypothetical anyway, and it's all opinion.

CHILL!<P ID="signature">______________
Bob
Moderator, Nashville board
Radio-Info.com--Always Tuned In

"I don't spread rumors, but I sometimes make outrageous speculations with no factual basis."</P>

 

[OldiesCat]

12+

I'm not saying NUMBERS per sey don't mean anything- but the blanket overall use of 12+ ratings (which has been my point) is something nobody IN the radio biz uses to determine strategy, format changes or set ad rates. More specific demo cells (18-34 and 25-54) are much more pertinent.

(of course, if I AGAIN explain the whys and hows, "tibbs" will blister me again and I don't know if my fragile feelings can handle more from him/her <LOL>).
>
> Which you claim is a moot point, since the numbers don't
> mean anything anyway. So what should we talk about?
>
> BTW, OC, *I* don't have any personal issues with you.
>

 

[OldiesCat]

good point and

A great example- and it happens in similar fashion in many radio markets.

> My only point was that 12+ numbers don't really mean
> anything in the real world. I live in a market where the #1
> 12+ station, ranks #16 in the 18-54.
> If you want to discuss, please, feel free. I didn't mean to
> piss on your parade.

 

[OldiesCat]

ratings

There is nothing hypothetical about the ratings, Bob. Proper ratings analyses
have a direct bearing on every radio market's competitive landscape.

Much is opinion, of course, but when folks are asking about ratings information and there's info avaialble past the twelve-plus published ratings, it's useful to share that info (without voiolating R-I rules). It happens on many of R-I's boards, makes for good discussion and helps give more detailed insight about how real-radio world decisions are made.


> All of this is just for fun, it has no bearing on anything.
> Everything we talk about on this board is hypothetical
> anyway, and it's all opinion.

 

[tibbs]

Re: Tibbs loves Oldiescat (but not that way!)

Oldiescat:

I was just playing. Didn't mean any of that as an attack at all.
I thought you would be the ONE person on here who would know
that since we pretty much seem to run the same path on these
boards. I appreciate when you get my back on topics. And when
I blow things out of proportion (like the number of times you
have said 12+ doesn't count) it's all meant to be fun. I'll
e-mail you. BTW, I admit it, I am immature. It's paid the bills
(oh, I don't have any) for 25 years being that way. But, being
seriously mean or vindictive toward you - I am not. Accept my
apology if I offended you. You are the main reason I enjoy
posting. (A friend who also posts on here told me I needed
to add this so I edited this post, adding this) ---> Especially
since NSSB has been elevated to Moderator and doesn't play
much anymore, either.


And while I am at it, let me make a couple of points to those new to the
Nashville board:

1.) 12+ numbers mean nothing to anyone who knows anything.

2.) One book (or trend) does not a format make.

3.) There was once a book about a tortise and a hare. I prefer
quick results and a long-term race. But, it's best to have a few
books (at least a year) under your belt before drawing conclusions
on radio stations formats and success.

4.) The FAN has hit the ----.

Had to go there, didn't I. Does anyone really want to talk about
how anybody is doing (Jack, Oldies, etc?) This book makes for
some interesting talk, regardless of exact numbers, doesn't it?
I'll TRY to be more serious. This is a fun way to chill for a
few minutes a day. Seriously, thanks for all the great people
on this board. <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by tibbs on 08/04/05 04:27 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[JohnHogan]

> What's the problem in talking 12+ here? Sure, it skews the
> real money demos, but it's the only set of hard numbers that
> we can legally discuss on this board. And for those who
> don't work for a subscriber, it's the only numbers they see,
> and otherwise wouldn't be able to discuss with us.
>
> A few random thoughts:
>
> Is Mix losing a little ground to Jack? Does it matter since
> it's all in-house?
>
> I (and many of you) continue to dine on crow while the
> Wolf's success plays in the background.
>
> WKDF is waiting to see how they fare with the Titans season
> gearing up. You won't even see tweaking there until after
> Fall book.
>
> The River is the station that's being hit hardest by the
> flight (from radio) of the iPod generation. 12+ is
> significant here.
>
> WTN sure is doing better without SportsNight. WLAC is
> feeling the effect of a weak morning show and the lack of a
> strong local presence during prime hours.
>
> 97.1's switch to Oldies revitalized the format locally and
> will continue to prove a great move.
>
> The Zone lost some of its listeners as the curious went over
> to see what Jack was about. They'll be back as Titans season
> gears up. 9-2 dropped the most, which put the nail in the
> coffin for the current programming there, as management
> realizes changes will bring new sales to that slot.
>
> 102.5? In my opinion, it's the parent company that stands in
> the way of success there. If I wanted to make some money of
> the frequency, I'd be looking for an LMA or a sale.
>
> It still makes me sad 560's dropped off the list...
>

Is Mix losing a little ground to Jack? Does it matter since
> it's all in-house?.....
I'd like to answer that question, YES it matters, it matters a ton if you work for Mix. The Jack format has been hurting Mix stations all over the country. I was shocked when South Central put that on the air in Nashville. Mix is a cash cow and doing anything to hurt that seems crazy. Maybe they know something we don't but it's a risk that I don't understand. I'm sure that behind closed doors Mix is NOT happy at Jack's success coming at their expense. I know that I'll get the, "it's to early to tell" response but do your homework on Jack in other markets before you throw me in the grease.

 

[radiocat]

>
12 plus matters to programmers/ego's and that's why we talk about it. is it anyone's goal to be #1 12 plus? i don't think it is but who knows. 25-54 adults certainly would be the right demo.. they also say that 18-49 is the one that many agencies get wet over these days.

anyway... it was an interesting book. jxa took a big hit.. dropping almost 3 shares 25-54 and allowing the rock to be the front runner. jack fm... big first full month and it's only going to get better in the short term. the country battle is awesome and WSM is very impressive.. a year ago these guys were #15 25-54 and today they are in 6th place. if it weren't for a huge 3rd phase.. kdf would be in trouble but they've dodged a bullet and the titans will be on the air soon.
























What's the problem in talking 12+ here? Sure, it skews the
> real money demos, but it's the only set of hard numbers that
> we can legally discuss on this board. And for those who
> don't work for a subscriber, it's the only numbers they see,
> and otherwise wouldn't be able to discuss with us.
>
> A few random thoughts:
>
> Is Mix losing a little ground to Jack? Does it matter since
> it's all in-house?
>
> I (and many of you) continue to dine on crow while the
> Wolf's success plays in the background.
>
> WKDF is waiting to see how they fare with the Titans season
> gearing up. You won't even see tweaking there until after
> Fall book.
>
> The River is the station that's being hit hardest by the
> flight (from radio) of the iPod generation. 12+ is
> significant here.
>
> WTN sure is doing better without SportsNight. WLAC is
> feeling the effect of a weak morning show and the lack of a
> strong local presence during prime hours.
>
> 97.1's switch to Oldies revitalized the format locally and
> will continue to prove a great move.
>
> The Zone lost some of its listeners as the curious went over
> to see what Jack was about. They'll be back as Titans season
> gears up. 9-2 dropped the most, which put the nail in the
> coffin for the current programming there, as management
> realizes changes will bring new sales to that slot.
>
> 102.5? In my opinion, it's the parent company that stands in
> the way of success there. If I wanted to make some money of
> the frequency, I'd be looking for an LMA or a sale.
>
> It still makes me sad 560's dropped off the list...
>