1200 will be an embarrassment for Clear Channel

[newhampshiredude]

Last night I was listening to a rebroadcast of Coast to Coast AM around midnight out of WGY in Albany. I hear a caller from Boston, then George Noory say he was on a new station there and that he was first of the others coming to AM 1200 in a couple of months. Then, the caller says, "I really wish you were still on the big station. It was easier to hear you on there." An uneasy George Noory told the caller that the station is going up to 50,000 watts. The caller responded by saying "It is?" Too bad that 1200 is ALREADY 50,000 watts. Apparentley nobody ever told Noory or Noory just realized that he got downgraded to a smaller station.

This is the first of many embarrassing stories to come for Clear Channel when it launches what might be called "Rush Radio 1200" in April. Rush listeners and anyone who listens to the station will realize that it has a worse signal than WRKO and is just an unsuccessful AM station that CC is getting clearances for its talk shows on. And, in a market like Boston, I can't see a mostly-syndicated station succeeding. Rush Radio 1200 will not get the ratings of WRKO and maybe even WTKK which will be an embarrassment for CC's national talk lineup.

 

[MassMusicMan]

Wait, people will stop listening to these popular shows just because they change frequencies?

 

[Deleted User]

There is no downside for CC, anything they put on there is going to pull better numbers than what's on there now.

WBZ is the big dog from Midnight to 5 AM in this market, it is unrated time, and Coast to Coast is a very niche show in my opinion, I can't believe that many tin foil hat folk are awake at night, but if they are maybe a length of wire attached to the tin foil hat will get them better reception. 1200 would have done better trying to steal some of WBZ's listeners with someone live on the overnight shift than running C2C.



The big question is how far will WRKO slide. They have no weekend bench to pull from. They have no part timers who are familiar to listeners, who might listen to a familiar voice in the 12 to 3 time slot.

And what about WTTK? there isn't much distance between the end of their rope and rock bottom, where do they stand to gain or lose in this? They have failed to capitalize on other opportunities, I doubt they will change the course of the Titanic of radio known as 96.9

 

[DanStrassberg]

Wait, people will stop listening to these popular shows just because they change frequencies?

1200's coverage can't compare with WRKO's (or even WEEI's). In fact, I think 1510 has better coverage than 1200--at least during the daytime. At night, Burlington is a challenge for 1200. WRKO's transmitter is in Burlington. WRKO reaches Cape Cod and Southern NH like a local; 1200 is all but inaudible in those areas at night and does not have a competitive signal by day.

If 1200 winds up with Limbaugh, a lot of listeners outside of 128 will be tuning to WGIR and WHJJ. From Marlborough westward, listeners will be heading for WTAG. WTAG can't be heard very well east of Marlborough because it is first-adjacent to WEZE. 1200 is probably OK as far west as Framingham by day, though by no means as good as WRKO. At night in that area, fuhgeddaboudit.

 

[newhampshiredude]

Wait, people will stop listening to these popular shows just because they change frequencies?

1200's coverage can't compare with WRKO's (or even WEEI's). In fact, I think 1510 has better coverage than 1200--at least during the daytime. At night, Burlington is a challenge for 1200. WRKO's transmitter is in Burlington. WRKO reaches Cape Cod and Southern NH like a local; 1200 is all but inaudible in those areas at night and does not have a competitive signal by day.

If 1200 winds up with Limbaugh, a lot of listeners outside of 128 will be tuning to WGIR and WHJJ. From Marlborough westward, listeners will be heading for WTAG. WTAG can't be heard very well east of Marlborough because it is first-adjacent to WEZE. 1200 is probably OK as far west as Framingham by day, though by no means as good as WRKO. At night in that area, fuhgeddaboudit.

This is the point I was making. Why would CC want to pull Limbaugh off his BIG Boston station and put him on 1200 where they know he will not be able to be heard by as many people as before just because of 1200's signal. I think that some of it has to do with CC wanting to stick it to Entercom for not airing more of the Premiere radio shows (Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity). I know a lot of people on this board criticize Entercom but I really think that WRKO is a very unique talk station from the others in the country that air Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and Sean Hannity. WRKO just sounds like a New England station, not New York or Los Angeles. And why has WRKO not added Glnenn Beck (instead airing Laura Ingraham) or Sean Hannity? Because their shows will not play well in Boston. I know that CC will get more ratings for AM 1200 with this lineup, but why downgrade their syndicated talent signal-wise to do this?

 

[oaktree]

Simple answer ...

Clear Channel has nothing to lose on 1200 as it stands right now. Further, it's not about "adding" audience for them, it's about "market clearance" -- and "Boston" is "Boston" no matter the station, especially since the same shows can be readily heard throughout the market on other stations.

Further, CC / Premier owns the shows they are yanking and putting on 1200. That means it's a "take-away" from 'RKO, etc, forcing them into "2nd or 3rd tier" programming which could cause a shift in numbers, minor as they may be. Power is power, after all.

And the cost that CC / Premier for their own shows on a station they own would be less than what anyone else pays that is non-CC, but keeps the product (and resulting revenue) off the competition. I've seen it in my market when CC owned a couple of clusters before selling out two years ago. And with 800 stations, adding one at low or no cost is no sweat to their national bottom line. Advertisers, nationally, are buying markets, not stations. Any local sales on 1200 will be seen as a bonus, not a place to dump PSA's as is the case in many markets carrying these same shows.

This is far from the first time CC has done this in competitive markets. They do it to "lock out" the competition, while opening "holes" for other CC / Premier programming to replace the product they just pulled from a competitor. They don't mind competing against themselves -- they still get the syndication revenue and the national sales dollars, while filling the market with more programming. So, where to start? Take the best programming you, put it on your own station, then offer other programming to the competitor who now needs the programming to fill a couple of spots.

CC did this "shift" to their own stations with Rush and other programming over the years just to play "keep away" and to load more paid programming into the market that otherwise wouldn't be cleared. So why not use that programming on their own stations? Who would you rather have, Rush or Hannity? If you can have Rush, you go for Rush.

 

[raccoonradio]

During the day 1200 won't be too bad but RKO does have the advantage of a lower freq. If you're close to Boston/Newton you will find 1200 an excellent get; same for those nr Burlington if you want RKO. Nights,
well, it's an improvement on what they used to be (years ago I would struggle to get Morgan White's
Talking Trivia on 1200) but still there are limitations

Last night, listened to McIntyre on 680 for a while and then tuned to 1200; they had someone on talking about Hoffa & RFK killings, the mob, etc. Again, an 8 (or maybe 7) out of 10 on Rt 128 in Reading, Lynnfield, etc. But in some outlying areas you will have trouble and maybe Manchester, Worcester, Prov or some of the bigger affiliates (like WGY) will be a better bet.

Someone wrote on a diff messageboard that they actually get C2C better now that it's on 1200. Depends on where you are. As Howie says, 680's signal is non-existent west of Kenmore Sq. A slight exaggeration but you see what he means.

Rush fans will tune in to 1200 for him; Hannity and Beck will get some listeners, etc. Take note that while a mostly syndicated station may not do well, there are some heavy hitters here: Beck, Rush, Hannity. Other similar stations may have had Hannity but not the other 2. (The efforts at 890, 1150, etc)

It won't do gangbusters but may do OK. And speaking of stations with mostly syndie shows, what do you
think WRKO is? Other than 5:30-9 am and 3-7 pm, they are syndie.

>>forcing them into "2nd or 3rd tier" programming

Rush on 1200 vs., say, Dennis Miller on 680...

>>If 1200 winds up with Limbaugh, a lot of listeners outside of 128 will be tuning to WGIR and WHJJ.

True. If not for the fact that 107.9 is doing well, they could have put syndie talk on that freq--
Kiss 108 becomes Rush 108, everybody! (but that won't happen)

 

[raccoonradio]

from today's Herald, the tentative lineup for 1200

>>WXKS program director Bill George said his station’s morning-drive show will be local, but he wouldn’t divulge more details. George was also mum on Rush Limbaugh.

9-noon Glenn Beck
Noon (??)
3 pm Sean Hannity
6 pm Jason Lewis (syndie, from out of Minn./STP)
9 pm ?
Mid Coast to Coast

http://bostonherald.com/business/me...rockefeller_story_to_air/srvc=home&position=4

 

[DToTheJ]

Someone wrote on a diff messageboard that they actually get C2C better now that it's on 1200...

Wow, wonder how much Clear Channel paid that person to write that!

 

[rockcaptain]

Someone wrote on a diff messageboard that they actually get C2C better now that it's on 1200...

Wow, wonder how much Clear Channel paid that person to write that!

It all depends on where you live. In some places 1200 does in fact come in better than 680.

 

[DanStrassberg]

It all depends on where you live. In some places 1200 does in fact come in better than 680.

SOME places, but not many. Oak Hill would be one. The reverse is true in most of the market, however. If Howie were on 1200 and were at war with CCU the way he is with Entercom. he'd be making the same snide remarks about 1200 at night as he makes about WRKO. WRKO's night signal is just fine until you get a few miles west of 128. 1200's night signal is also essentially nonexistent in that area. And you notice that Howie doesn't talk about NH and Cape Cod--areas where WRKO's night signal is generally the equal of the market's best AM signal: WBZ.

 

[raccoonradio]

All very true. In the case of Howie he has WCRN to help him to the west. And despite RKO coming in well
on Cape Cod, as you say, he has WXTK as an affiliate. In the case of NH, RKO does well and if you're up
around Lake Sunapee or Hanover/Lebanon he has WUVR and WNTK.

It's ironic that 1200 doesn't do well to the west; before the tower move, that's where they would have done best (before, in Framingham)

>>Wow, wonder how much Clear Channel paid that person to write that!

Who knows! The post was on the SaveWRKO blog, by "BostonListener" and reads:

>>Yes, Boston now has Coast to Coast AM on 1200 WKOX! The signal was fantastic coming into the Fenway area. Sounded like they were in my living room, not behind a pile of books like on that other station.
(source http://www.savewrko.com/2010/02/08/another-false-alarm-or-head-chopping-time/ )

Though I would think 680 would come in OK in that area?...

 

[OFFICENERD]

1200 signal fads as close to Boston as the Wellesley Natick Line. Stupid move to bring the towers closer to Boston. However, I was in Bermuda last fall. WKOX comes in loud and clear almost like a local station at night... So they got that workin for them!

 

[DanStrassberg]

It's ironic that 1200 doesn't do well to the west; before the tower move, that's where they would have done best (before, in Framingham)

At night, they have to protect to the west and southwest. They moved the transmitter to the east. The western limits of their nighttime coverage HAD to move to the east along with the transmitter. The fact that the transmitter power increased from 1 kW to 50 kW could not improve the nighttime signal to the west of the transmitter site.

Daytime is different. The day pattern sends the equivalent of almost 10 kW ND to the west. It may be enough to deliver 5 mV/m to Framingham. I don't know if it does or doesn't. Check with the V-Soft Zip-Signal Web site. In case you don't know it, Framingham's Zips start with 01701. Zip-signal will certainly report the daytime signal strength. The night signal strength may be too low to make V-Soft's cut, but even if it does make the cut (~0.3 mV/m), the reading will be meaningless. 1200's NIF is officially ~13.5 mV/m, although in practice it may be a bit lower because WAGE has gone dark and WJGK turned in its unbuilt CP for 1200 in Highland NY (Poughkeepsie).

Sounded like they were in my living room, not behind a pile of books like on that other station.
(source http://www.savewrko.com/2010/02/08/another-false-alarm-or-head-chopping-time/ )

Though I would think 680 would come in OK in that area?...

Again, check Zip-Signal. You need to know the Zip for Fenway Park--a Zip code that I don't know. I would not be surprised to learn that WRKO delivers a stronger signal to the ball park than 1200 does even though the distance from Burlington to Fenway is greater. But I do not know for a fact that that is the case.

 

[Gregg]

I wonder if Boston will support 3 1/2 talk stations. (That's WRKO, WTKK, WXKS and WBZ's nighttime talk shows.) In addition, there's progressive talk on WWZN, Black talk on WILD and surburban talk stations WTAG, WCRN, WCAP, etc. Plus NPR talk on WBUR and now WGBH. WBZ''s news by day/talk by night format is clearly not going anywhere. But surely WRKO will drop with the loss of Rush as its mostly clearly recognizable host.

WTKK had been in the top 10 before People Meters but has dropped down among the lowest ranked full-power FMs. Talk is an expensive format to do if you don't just depend on syndicated shows, which WTKK doesn't do. If those numbers don't improve, will owner Greater Media keep spending money on WTKK for its share of the mature talk audience divided by 3 1/2? Will it figure it could make more money with a music format like Urban AC? Or will WRKO sink below WTKK's numbers without Clear Channel/Premiere programs?

Minneapolis, which had four AM talk stations and two on FM, just lost 50,000 watt 1500 KSTP, the station Jesse Ventura used to be on. It's flipping to ESPN Sports. Might WRKO someday become ESPN 680?




Gregg
[email protected]

 

[raccoonradio]

Indeed there would be a lot of talk on the dial as you say and is there room for all of it?
WBZ gets pretty good ratings with news most of the day, then talk
WRKO halfway decent, WTKK trails them. I think in RKO's case Rush, Howie, and Savage do well.
They can't afford to lose Rush.

WXKS is Clear Channel getting clearances for its shows. Even if they don't set the world on fire with
ratings, they will get their ads sold, etc. They will probably do better than the previous "mostly/all
syndie conservative talk" outlets, like 890 and 1150 did for awhile--Rush for sure would do well there.

If Entercom loses the Sox due to not having the up front $ on 3/1, they could well move to 98.5--
the Sox would love a strong FM flagship, and WEEI would really suffer. Who knows, with less money
to throw around, WRKO could bid Finneran/Feinberg or perhaps even Howie farewell and make 680
all ESPN, though maybe have Howie as the one non-sports show/the one local show...

>>WTKK had been in the top 10 before People Meters but has dropped down among the lowest ranked full-power FMs. Talk is an expensive format to do if you don't just depend on syndicated shows, which WTKK doesn't do.

Indeed they keep it mostly local and maybe E&B, Graham, Severin, and McPhee aren't getting huge ratings but maybe they bill well?

>>If those numbers don't improve, will owner Greater Media keep spending money on WTKK for its share of the mature talk audience divided by 3 1/2? Will it figure it could make more money with a music format like Urban AC?

Or is music the answer; are people tuning out radio and turning on Ipods; is it worth music licensing fees
(ever hear those ads telling people to defeat the 'performance tax'? Greater Media runs 'em!)...but who knows.

Not that they'd necessarily bring back smooth jazz, but I remember the early days of WTKK as a talker and Jay Severin stressed the importance of people tuning in--or else "it'll be back to Kenny G..."

 

[Dighton Rockhead]

It's ironic that 1200 doesn't do well to the west; before the tower move, that's where they would have done best (before, in Framingham)

You're forgetting one little thing......The whole idea behind the WKOX upgrade to 50KW was to get better penetration into Boston itself, and the surrounding suburbs. I'm not sure CC really cares about fringe reception in the outer suburbs, which might do just as well listening to Worcester, New Hampshire or Providence stations anyway.

 

[DanStrassberg]

The day pattern sends the equivalent of almost 10 kW ND to the west. It may be enough to deliver 5 mV/m to Framingham. I don't know if it does or doesn't. Check with the V-Soft Zip-Signal Web site.

Results from Zip-Signal (in mV/m): In Zip 01701 (Framingham): Day: WRKO 9.51, WKOX 2.79. A clear win for WRKO; 9.51 mV/m is a solid local signal; 2.79 mV/m is a so-so daytime signal. Night: WRKO: 1.58, WKOX 0.54. Another win for WRKO but neither station supplies a very listenable signal. There is a chance that people might listen to 1.58; that's about what WKOX used to deliver to my Zip at night (back when it was 10 kW-D/1 kW-N transmitting from Framingham). I used to listen but I am not a typical listener. Due to the high background interference from co-channel and first-adjacent channel stations, 0.54 mV/m on 1200 will be totally useless at night more than 90% of the time.

Though I would think 680 would come in OK in that area?...

Again, check Zip-Signal. You need to know the Zip for Fenway Park--a Zip code that I don't know. I would not be surprised to learn that WRKO delivers a stronger signal to the ball park than 1200 does even though the distance from Burlington to Fenway is greater. But I do not know for a fact that that is the case.

From Zip-Signal (in mV/m): In Zip 02215 (Fenway area):
Day: WRKO: 72.19, WKOX: 68.54; technically a win for WRKO but the difference is so small that it is completely insignificant
Night: WRKO: 71.19, WKOX: 77.05; technically a win for WKOX but like the previous readings, the difference is too small to be significant.

 

[SonoSational18]

It's all about the metro.

 

[DToTheJ]

WTKK had been in the top 10 before People Meters but has dropped down among the lowest ranked full-power FMs. Talk is an expensive format to do if you don't just depend on syndicated shows, which WTKK doesn't do. If those numbers don't improve, will owner Greater Media keep spending money on WTKK for its share of the mature talk audience divided by 3 1/2?

This is where another FM sports talk station might come in handy. ;D