1210 WPHT complaints

[Jul]

TalkRadio WPHT really needs to stop running some of its weekend programming in their entirety, following games the station airs and start joining the programs in progress, after games. Don't make any sense that 1210 is doing this. I don't think that WCAU did this. Rich Zeoli was supposed to start at 8 PM last night (show didn't start until 8:21 PM), but the schedule got pushed back because of the Phillies game. 1210 should have joined the next program following the Phillies coverage, in progress, that would have avoided all of this and Rich's show would have aired on time. Same thing happens on Sundays following games, causing the crime guys show not to air at all or gets shortened. I've been listening to 1210 since the late 1980's and I don't want to stop listening to the station because of poor programming decisions. Whatever you do, please fix this. 1210 should treat its all of its local talk shows (not the brokered ones) as top priority and not second fiddle. 1210 is too damn insistent on running some of its weekend programs following the Phillies all the way through and not even shortening the program that follows the game.

 

[jhguthlac]

The fact the shows are aired in their entirity indicates there is money involved.

 

[aindik]

Yep. A brokered show is essentially a paid commercial. They can't take the money and not air it.

 

[AdamfromPhilly]

weekend radio is all about making money where ever possible. Julius, no offense, but nobody cares.

 

[Macy93]

Julius says, “too many commercials, not enough program,” the most common listener complaint. Fix it by moving the spots to a different slot on the clock. I don’t know what infomercial aired on WPHT last Saturday, perhaps it could air after Rich Zeoli’s show and still bill @ the same rate.

...1210 should treat its all of its local talk shows (not the brokered ones) as top priority and not second fiddle.

Have to agree in theory. But is it possible both “shows” we are talking about are brokered?

 

[Jul]

Have to agree in theory. But is it possible both “shows” we are talking about are brokered?

Most of the local talk shows like Rich's and the Crime Guys are not brokered. Some like The People's Law School, Crash proof retirement are local brokered talk shows.

 

[Robbien]

I did not listen on Saturday but I don't know why they'd waste a real talk show at 8pm on a Saturday night AFTER infomercials. That makes no sense. Who would even know Zeoli is on?

 

[Ejxit]

1210 should dump all talk and sports and switch to a real rapid fire 50's, 60's and 70's oldies format. Revive the WPGR calls and use that 50Kw flame thrower signal to carpet bomb the whole eastern seaboard. Not a lot of blather and more than just the top 100 hits of each year would attract a lot of attention. Put jocks like Jerry Blavat, King Arthur, Jimmy Dee, Andy Volvo, Bob Charger to work cranking out the sounds on a real powerhouse radio station instead of those peanut whistle stations like WNJC, WVLT and internet streams like soundsofphillyradio.com and phillygoldradio.com There are millions of listeners that are fed up with talk, rap and crap.

 

[DG02816]

Ejexit,

Nice try. Don't you think that if money could be made with that format on a big signal AM, it would have been already done? With the core audience for this type of music ageing out of the money demo, it would be a tough sell. The best way for 1210 to have any luck at all with music would be either to broker out the time as WNJC and WVLT do, or become listener-supported, as Bob Bittner's WJTO 730 Bath ME and WJIB 740 Cambridge MA are. You'd have to bring in quite a few thousand a month merely to pay for the power needed to keep a 50 kW signal on the air. The ownership of 990 in Providence RI learned this the hard way; they figured having a 50 kW day signal could outmuscle the other two news-talkers in that market with their version of the format. Station had to eventually broker out its time, and finally went silent. Another group tried the same thing on that frequency, ran out of money, and again the station went dark, as it is now. The idea is nice, but a LOT of money is needed to make it go at the 50 kW level.

 

[jhguthlac]

Ejxit: Your idea has been tried on many stations, particularly those east of the Mississippi. 50K stations in Ohio, 1210 here did it, thd old KB tried to bring the old days back to life... etc. No money in it. Its particularly bad when stations try to use the same patter DJ's used back in the 60's. That is so out of date even Blavat doesn't do it anymore. That era is over. Get over it.

 

[RadioVeep]

WPHT has bigger problems than its weekend lineup. Smerconish will eventually lose to Rush and the station will not be able to justify the money they pay him. And Martarano and Bizzinger - Steve is okay - but Buzz is insane and unreliable. And not even fun insane - but get you into trouble insane. I give him 6 months on the air until CBS is done with him

 

[pab]

Smerconish doesn't have to beat Rush, only do well enough to bill more net than WPHT was with Rush. And that's not that hard considering what Rush charged for carriage fees plus barter.

I'll say it before and I'll say it again. WPHT got a 2 rating. Conservative talk doesn't even chart in Philly. You don't get to a 4.0 by chasing listeners of a 2.0 station. The only station that WWIQ is going to kill off (other than itself) is WNTP, which relies on the fringe for its too-small-to-measure audience.

My prediction again: after a possible PPR bump from curiosity listeners and the Presidential election, WWIQ winds up with around a 1.0 and won't be profitable by February. With the new lineup WPHT will probably drop to a 1.4 but will make more money for CBS with the smaller numbers.

 

[musichead1029]

As has been emphasized several times in this discussion here and on the NY board (by no less than Salem VP of Spoken Word Programming Phil Boyce), WNTP and Salem's WNYM in NYC don't compete on ratings. They clear their in-house programming nationally and sell it both nationally and locally on demos, not quantity. They don't buy the Arb book. They're not in the same game as WPHT and WWIQ and don't try to be. They'll likely be here after WPHT is gone.

PHT has to sell itself with no major heritage players except for Dom Giordano and a half decent morning show. (Smerconish is parked in middays because that's where his his syndicator put him, and any connection he had with the audience from his days as a conservative talker is long gone.) That's not an enviable position to be in, especially when your competitor has all the brands and is on FM.

IQ will do middling numbers and if they can sell the audience, will make decent money. PHT's expenses and low numbers outside of Phillies' games will sink it inside of two years. If it had any heritage players (what few are left in this market) and a consistent approach content-wise, they might may a go of it. But they have neither. You get what you pay for.

 

[pab]

You can't use WNTP's non-subscribing as an excuse for their non-existent ratings. They were under 1.0 before Arbitron stopped publishing non-subscribers. WWIQ will pull some of WPHT's 2.0 and some of WNTP's unmeasurable for somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.0. That's not enough to keep a station alive in this market when you're paying out the ass for Rush Limbaugh.

WNTP may survive, since it's Salem's O&O dumping ground pulling clearance for clearance's sake, but what little relevance they have in town will be gone.

Both Giordano and Smerconish are heritage talkers in Philly. And the local more-moderate line-up may pull some listeners from WHYY, which is (except for KYW) the top talker in Philly at the moment.

Once the novelty wears off and the curiosity bump on the PPM's is over, WWIQ will be lucky to get a 1.0. WPHT? Probably 1.3 or 1.4, but their cheaper lineup will make them financially feasible.

 

[musichead1029]

You can't use WNTP's non-subscribing as an excuse for their non-existent ratings. They were under 1.0 before Arbitron stopped publishing non-subscribers.

Let me try again: WNTP doesn't care about their ratings relative to WPHT or IQ or anyone else. They sell their existing lineup to those who want to listen. They do this with all of their secular talkers, and Salem is a profitable venture.

Certainly NTP will lose listeners when Mark Levin moves over to WWIQ, and I don't think the replacement show, Steve Deace is going to outpoll whatver IQ runs. But their game plan won't change due to IQ entering the market.

WPHT will take the hit. They had Limbaugh and the awareness he brings to any station that runs him. Now they don't, and they have nothing of note to replace him with. Smerconish hasn't been a factor since he stripped himself of his conservative persona to position himself for syndication (and guest slots on MSNBC) as a "moderate." Dom listeners who don't care about Limbaugh may stick around for Smerconish just because he's on the same frequency, but that's a small audience compared to those who actively seek out Limbaugh. And once they've found him, they're more likely to stay put for Hannity & Levin than switch back to 1210 for an unknown. Eventually, they'll do more listening to 106.9 and 1210 will become a secondary station or be forgotten altogether outside of mornings (IQ certainly isn't currently offering any talk competition in morning drive).

WWIQ will pull some of WPHT's 2.0 and some of WNTP's unmeasurable for somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.0. That's not enough to keep a station alive in this market when you're paying out the ass for Rush Limbaugh.

It is when you've made a deal to carry several Premiere programs, likely for a discount. If IQ doesn't like the rates next contract, they might take fewer hosts from Premiere, or Premiere might price to the market if IQ's the only talker lefts standing. For all we know IQ took CBS by surprise. When CBS was the only player, they could drop Beck and Hannity and still expect to keep Limbaugh. Merlin took advantage of Premiere's available lineup and oops, PHT's left out in the cold.

WNTP may survive, since it's Salem's O&O dumping ground pulling clearance for clearance's sake, but what little relevance they have in town will be gone.

Again, they don't care. NTP is relevant for those who listen and that's fine with Salem. It's PHT that's on the way to irrelevance if they don't attract some buzz (pun intended) with the new hosts. And that's harder to do with relative unknowns and with a branded FM competitor unless you pay to advertise. And CBS's cheap.. er 'thrifty' approach is what got PHT to where it is now.

Both Giordano and Smerconish are heritage talkers in Philly. And the local more-moderate line-up may pull some listeners from WHYY, which is (except for KYW) the top talker in Philly at the moment.

Again, a syndicated "nonpartisan" Smerconish in middays isn't going to be an issue to the other stations. And comparing NPR to commercial talkers is apples and oranges. HYY has very little overlap with PHT and IQ's audience. Completely different targets. HYY is lifestyle programming and news. The others are political issues talk. Like NTP, NPR affiliates do their own thing. They care about donors over listeners. Ratings may be a useful indicator that the noncomm programming has traction, but alone, they're irrelevant to the NPR affiliate's bottom line.

Once the novelty wears off and the curiosity bump on the PPM's is over, WWIQ will be lucky to get a 1.0. WPHT? Probably 1.3 or 1.4, but their cheaper lineup will make them financially feasible.

IQ's programming (at least from noon to 9PM) will be consistent and a familiar brand. There will be a novelty factor for a few listeners, but most will listen to the block rather than switch to unknowns. PHT has a decent morning lineup and unknowns on a station that used to be branded with Rush. If there are enough listeners to stick around and PHT gets some buzz going, they may keep some of the Phillies grade numbers. But they have to pay for those hosts. Right now, IQ is probably cheaper to run than PHT. A few morning guys, news and traffic from their existing facility in New York, and a router. PHT has to pay producers, hosts and staff. If they don't keep the unspectacular numbers they currently have, CBS will pull at least some of the costly local talent. I'm thinking in terms of two years before they try something else cheaper with younger demos.

 

[MDefl]

I didn't listen to Smerconish when he was a "conservative". A couple of years ago, I did listen to his show a few times but was bored out of my mind. I really don't like Rush but he is provockative and certainly isn't boring. Perhaps a Keith Olbermann would be a better alternative than a Smerconish for the long run. Olbermann is hard to work with though.

The way I see it is that the Phils and a cauldron of conservative listeners has kept PHT afloat. I expect their numbers to crater. Not sure what to make of the new station for the conservative talkers. It is hard to get people to listen to a station they have never tuned into before. Not impossible though. I have been hearing about the demise of Limbaugh since 1996 and he is still here. I won't underestimate him.

 

[Robbien]

Okay I'm giving the new 1210 afternoon show a try out of loyalty to the station. But wow is it dull. There just doesn't seem to be a "there" there between Bissinger and Steve M. And when they do disagree it sounds forced. Politically they both seem to be consistent in their views. Left, but also angry at everyone and everything, including those on the left. I predict Steve going the way of Ann Curry soon. Based on the promos and branding as the Buzz show WITH Steve M, Buzz is the star and he'll blame the lack of chemistry on his partner. I know it's only been a week and our opinions probably don't matter all that much. Thoughts?

 

[aindik]

Now that the station isn't right wing all day, maybe Dom Giordano will go back to being a libertarian instead of a conservative.

I haven't listened to him in years because, as a libertarian, his somewhat recent turn disappoints me.

 

[rdcuffpa1]

And comparing NPR to commercial talkers is apples and oranges. HYY has very little overlap with PHT and IQ's audience. Completely different targets. HYY is lifestyle programming and news. The others are political issues talk. Like NTP, NPR affiliates do their own thing. They care about donors over listeners. Ratings may be a useful indicator that the noncomm programming has traction, but alone, they're irrelevant to the NPR affiliate's bottom line.

I'd agree with that...WHYY's major competitor is KYW but even that is a stretch. WHYY's major competitor is likely satellite / web listening to specialized services such as the BBC...when it comes to straight listener hours...but in a practical sense WHYY's competitor is donor complacency.

Richard in Allentown

 

[aindik]

You can't compare the ratings of a station that airs programming 43 minutes an hour with the ratings of a station that airs programming 58 minutes an hour.