1330 AM- Dance Music?

[radioguybroadcasting]

There's a rumour that Radio Vision Cristiana's 1330 WWRV is for sale.

If someone bought it and went with a dance format, would you dance music fans listen?

 

[TonySantiago]

Okay....it's just the obvious question that's gotta be asked here...

Who is buying and what's the plan??

Let me say this...

In 1998, radio station WJDM (1660 at the time) took on a syndicated dance music show called "Beat Radio" with Alan Freed. In comparison to 'KTU, the music was SLAMMING! It was current, it was happening, it was great! Problem is, after 8PM, because of clear channel on the AM, the station's directional signal steered away from where I was tuning in. People in Ohio were hearing WJDM but me, living 20 miles or so away from Elizabeth, NJ couldn't tune in!

While "Beat Radio" was great, because of the sound quality of AM radio it just didn't feel right. Especially when you are talking about a crowd that is used to hearing the sound quality of the music in clubs and on past FM stations. There is STILL the issue with the signal as well. I knew that 1330 was the frequency of WEVD...and they moved over to 1050, before ESPN came into the picture. It may cover well in Northern New Jersey and parts of NYC, but after 8PM, you have to drop power and thus drop listeners in the process.

I'm not trying to killjoy this. Believe me, I am ALWAYS supporting dance music and would give any new dance station a try. I think the angle a station like this could work is if it was geared to the deep house/lounge/afrocentric styles. You have Pulse 87 here, but based on their target demos, they would not be going for this brand of audience. Get that Tony Humphries/Merlin Bobb/John Robinson/Masters At Work branding and you can create something rather unique! THAT would get people to tune in, despite the AM limitations.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

Okay....it's just the obvious question that's gotta be asked here...

Who is buying and what's the plan??

Let me say this...

In 1998, radio station WJDM (1660 at the time) took on a syndicated dance music show called "Beat Radio" with Alan Freed. In comparison to 'KTU, the music was SLAMMING! It was current, it was happening, it was great! Problem is, after 8PM, because of clear channel on the AM, the station's directional signal steered away from where I was tuning in. People in Ohio were hearing WJDM but me, living 20 miles or so away from Elizabeth, NJ couldn't tune in!

While "Beat Radio" was great, because of the sound quality of AM radio it just didn't feel right. Especially when you are talking about a crowd that is used to hearing the sound quality of the music in clubs and on past FM stations. There is STILL the issue with the signal as well. I knew that 1330 was the frequency of WEVD...and they moved over to 1050, before ESPN came into the picture. It may cover well in Northern New Jersey and parts of NYC, but after 8PM, you have to drop power and thus drop listeners in the process.

I'm not trying to killjoy this. Believe me, I am ALWAYS supporting dance music and would give any new dance station a try. I think the angle a station like this could work is if it was geared to the deep house/lounge/afrocentric styles. You have Pulse 87 here, but based on their target demos, they would not be going for this brand of audience. Get that Tony Humphries/Merlin Bobb/John Robinson/Masters At Work branding and you can create something rather unique! THAT would get people to tune in, despite the AM limitations.

With regards to the signal limitations of 1330 AM.. you should check the facts before you make comments on it.

They are 10KW Day/5KW night from 3 towers day and night.... the signal loses a few miles at night due to lowering power and tighening the pattern, but thats it. Plus, the difference between 10KW and 5KW isn't as much as you think. It's not the BEST NYC area Am signal, but it's not the worst either.

Plus, they don't "power down" at 8pm.. it's at sunset each night.. which can be anywhere between 4:30pm and 9pm depneding on the time of month.

I'm not saying anyone who bought 1330 would want to put Dance music on... but the thing is, if thats where the medium/music is that you want, I would expect people to support it.... sometimes people are a little picy, you arent always going to get a full market Fm signal.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

Okay....it's just the obvious question that's gotta be asked here...

Who is buying and what's the plan??

Let me say this...

In 1998, radio station WJDM (1660 at the time) took on a syndicated dance music show called "Beat Radio" with Alan Freed. In comparison to 'KTU, the music was SLAMMING! It was current, it was happening, it was great! Problem is, after 8PM, because of clear channel on the AM, the station's directional signal steered away from where I was tuning in. People in Ohio were hearing WJDM but me, living 20 miles or so away from Elizabeth, NJ couldn't tune in!

While "Beat Radio" was great, because of the sound quality of AM radio it just didn't feel right. Especially when you are talking about a crowd that is used to hearing the sound quality of the music in clubs and on past FM stations. There is STILL the issue with the signal as well. I knew that 1330 was the frequency of WEVD...and they moved over to 1050, before ESPN came into the picture. It may cover well in Northern New Jersey and parts of NYC, but after 8PM, you have to drop power and thus drop listeners in the process.

I'm not trying to killjoy this. Believe me, I am ALWAYS supporting dance music and would give any new dance station a try. I think the angle a station like this could work is if it was geared to the deep house/lounge/afrocentric styles. You have Pulse 87 here, but based on their target demos, they would not be going for this brand of audience. Get that Tony Humphries/Merlin Bobb/John Robinson/Masters At Work branding and you can create something rather unique! THAT would get people to tune in, despite the AM limitations.

With regards to the signal limitations of 1330 AM.. you should check the facts before you make comments on it.

They are 10KW Day/5KW night from 3 towers day and night.... the signal loses a few miles at night due to lowering power and tighening the pattern, but thats it. Plus, the difference between 10KW and 5KW isn't as much as you think. It's not the BEST NYC area Am signal, but it's not the worst either.

Plus, they don't "power down" at 8pm.. it's at sunset each night.. which can be anywhere between 4:30pm and 9pm depending on the time of month.

I'm not saying anyone who bought 1330 would want to put Dance music on... but the thing is, if thats where the medium/music is that you want, I would expect people to support it.... sometimes people are a little picky, you arent always going to get a full market Fm signal.

I should add that to be licensed to New York City (which WWRV is) they have to PROVE they cover at least 66 percent of the City.

By the way, I meant to say, "Plus, they don't "power down" at 8pm.. it's at sunset each night.. which can be anywhere between 4:30pm and 9pm depending on the time of YEAR.. since sunset changes every month.

 

[JayD]

Dance music = deep bass, punchy kicks, crispy synths and hi hats... AM would not do the music justice and would just have people turning on their iPods to hear their favorite music.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

Dance music = deep bass, punchy kicks, crispy synths and hi hats... AM would not do the music justice and would just have people turning on their iPods to hear their favorite music.

You probably have never heard a high quality, well processed AM station on a good AM radio.. and not one rigged to make AM sound bad.

How come if Dance music disappears from a far from full market FM signal, its a big travesty and a loss.. and people say they need to bring it back or they b**tch about the lack of signal.. but if it were on an AM.. the audio quakity isn't good enuf.

AM can do 10khz of audio, which is higher and more then a human can hear anyways. legal limit is 9khz but by good audio processing including the use of some Aphex equipment and a nanosecond of delay.. you'll hear a signal that is incredibly hot with tingling highs and booming bass.

The only limit being your choice of reciever. The processor and broadcaster can provide the quality product, will you provide the reciever
to give you the quality and expierience you're demanding?

If some of you REALLY want some full market FM signal or aren't happy how it's being done.. why don't you go out and lease or buy a station yourselves? Don't have the money? Then let someone else do it and sit bak n enjoy.... Soon enough you'd find out how hard and expensive it is to pay the bills and run a radio station... when it failed because of lack of money, you'd blame the advertisers and not the fact that there arent many listeners.. its never your fault, its always someone else's when something doesnt work out.

We really can't make some of you picky dance music fans happy, can we?

 

[davideduardo]

AM can do 10khz of audio, which is higher and more then a human can hear anyways.

No, many people can hear an old CRT tv's flyback transformer, at above 17 kHz. Most people hear above 15 kHz, although the upper limit is reduced as well as attenuated with age.

legal limit is 9khz

No, the NRSC standard is 10 kHz, not 9. It's a brick wall rolloff, too. But many stations adjust their audio to roll at 5 kHz to 7 kHz to sound better on the average AM receiver section of the sets made in the last 20 years. The larger market AMs that use HD Radio roll at 5 kHz.

See http://www.nrscstandards.org/StandardsArchive/NRSC-1 1988.pdf for the standard.

but by good audio processing including the use of some Aphex equipment and a nanosecond of delay.. you'll hear a signal that is incredibly hot with tingling highs and booming bass.

There are no tingling highs when your audio drops dead at 10 kHz, and the normal receiver can't even hear that.

The only limit being your choice of reciever. The processor and broadcaster can provide the quality product, will you provide the reciever to give you the quality and expierience you're demanding?

There are very few of those receivers, and stations adjust, as I said, for the 95% or more of receivers that have very limited response.

 

[mimo]

I live a couple of hours down the road from Montreal, which just got a new radio station on AM a few weeks ago. They feature dance music, rap, industrial, metal and alternative music. It's a community station, so advertising isn't required. They play music I like, they're also on AM. The fact they play music I LIKE means more than what band it's on. If I like a station or what it's format is, I don't care whether it's AM of FM, as long as I can hear it.

BTW human hearing peaks at 20 000 hz...in some cases up to 22, 000 hz...but it does decrease with age. Personally I could care less about losing sounds over 10 khz on AM radio...those sounds bother me, AM does have more bass and midrange, and most electronic/dance music can sound great on AM. I remember Beat Radio. I also heard it in AM stereo when it was around, and beat radio was fantastic, just like Tony mentioned.

Not that anyone cares, but I do hear 1330 quite well up here in Canada's capital at night.

 

[TonySantiago]

Dance music = deep bass, punchy kicks, crispy synths and hi hats... AM would not do the music justice and would just have people turning on their iPods to hear their favorite music.

You probably have never heard a high quality, well processed AM station on a good AM radio.. and not one rigged to make AM sound bad.

How come if Dance music disappears from a far from full market FM signal, its a big travesty and a loss.. and people say they need to bring it back or they b**tch about the lack of signal.. but if it were on an AM.. the audio quakity isn't good enuf.

AM can do 10khz of audio, which is higher and more then a human can hear anyways. legal limit is 9khz but by good audio processing including the use of some Aphex equipment and a nanosecond of delay.. you'll hear a signal that is incredibly hot with tingling highs and booming bass.

The only limit being your choice of reciever. The processor and broadcaster can provide the quality product, will you provide the reciever
to give you the quality and expierience you're demanding?

If some of you REALLY want some full market FM signal or aren't happy how it's being done.. why don't you go out and lease or buy a station yourselves? Don't have the money? Then let someone else do it and sit bak n enjoy.... Soon enough you'd find out how hard and expensive it is to pay the bills and run a radio station... when it failed because of lack of money, you'd blame the advertisers and not the fact that there arent many listeners.. its never your fault, its always someone else's when something doesnt work out.

We really can't make some of you picky dance music fans happy, can we?

I'm replying to this and the post geared towards me. No need to be rude here. You were asking our opinions and we're giving them to you.

I DO my homework and have read the specifics of the signal once you put this thread up, even so far as looking at radius charts and yes, the signal is decent. I'm not totally knocking it. Okay, I said 8PM (this was based on Beat Radio), but yes, sunset...correct....that I knew.

I'm also trying to look at various angles with this, if this dance station wants to succeed. Yes, Pulse 87 may have its signal limitations, but they have a specific target audience (mainly Italians, Latinos) with that brand of music. What will 1330 do? The same? Different? That's why I was angling on the deep house/afrocentric sounds since that is something Pulse isn't doing and you cover a different audience (for the most part). And there is a significant crowd out there that wants that sound out there. As it is, only the Liquid Sound Lounge show on 99.5 'BAI covers that.

I did hear a dance station a long time ago in Toronto.....on AM 640. Nice station, good music, but it didn't stay on too long as they were competing against an FM powerhouse (Energy 108). And that's what I was trying to say. Yes, bring on dance music to the air.....I don't care WHERE it is. But with the AM side, you may want to try another angle of dance and not compete directly. Just thinking the long run here....it's not being "picky" as you say. We just want this product to LAST!

Now, if these radio companies can push putting HD car receivers to the auto industry, then it solves the AM issue all around since the HD signal processing makes the sound "FM"! But the radio industry blew that....

 

[TonySantiago]

I'll add these links here for those that want to know.

DAYTIME:

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WWRV&service=AM&status=L&hours=D

NIGHTTIME:

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WWRV&service=AM&status=L&hours=N

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

Now, if these radio companies can push putting HD car receivers to the auto industry, then it solves the AM issue all around since the HD signal processing makes the sound "FM"! But the radio industry blew that....

It does?

I've heard quite a few horror stories on just how bad HD is.

 

[TonySantiago]

Conceptually, in itself, HD was supposed to improve the quality of the sounds (AM to sound like FM, FM to sound CD quality) as well as bring about subchannels on a given frequency (on the FM side anyway). But the HD signals never traveled too far.

I have an HD radio at home. Sometimes I can pull in stations, other times I can't. I have listened to 'FAN and heard their HD subcarrier and it did sound FM. I've never heard a music AM station in HD but I would think it would come close to FM sounding.

Other than that, corporate ruined things by making HD the "dumping" grounds of former formats, and very rarely you'd find something innovative...outside of Hot 97's "Throwback" on HD-2 and Z-100's "Future Hits". If anything, now it seems as if AM stations are being sent there as well (Newsradio 880 to 101.1 HD-3, 1010 WINS to 102.7 HD-3)

BTW, I did keep my car radio on 1330 throughout my drive (Bronx to Manhattan) and yes, it does come in good.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

Radio Vision Cristiana Management paid $1.362 million for WRVP 1310 Mt Kisco, NY which is a 5KW Signal by Day and 33 Watts at night... basically just serves that area..................... I have to assume they paid a TON load more for 1330.. probably quite out of reach for anyone who'd wanna do Dance.

 

[TonySantiago]

I don't have a direct link but I did google up the information. In 1989, Radio Vision Cristiana purchased the 1330 signal for $12 million.

Be sure for 2008 the asking price might be at least $30 mil. Though with radio having it's issues there could be a "fire sale" of sorts.

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

I don't have a direct link but I did google up the information. In 1989, Radio Vision Cristiana purchased the 1330 signal for $12 million.

Be sure for 2008 the asking price might be at least $30 mil. Though with radio having it's issues there could be a "fire sale" of sorts.

yeah, I doubt 1330 would go for $30 mil today.

 

[JerseyDude]

Dance Music on AM would sound like crap, but anything would be better than the contemporary Guido Dance and stuck in the late 80s/early 90s Freeystyle that Pulse 87 plays.

Guido Dance is popular in the NYC/Long Island area, but it isn't the only type of Dance Music out there. I hope that Pulse 87 in it's current form never gets a full FM signal.

 

[DanStrassberg]

yeah, I doubt 1330 would go for $30 mil today.

That might be the ASKING price, but in today's market I wouldn't bet on the selling price being that high. Now who would buy? Arthur Liu appears to be up to the maximum on AM signals in the market (930, 1380, 1430, 1530, 1660). I don't know whether he also owns 1480. If he does, he must be waivered over the limit. Salem isn't buying right now, although I suppose they might make an exception for a decent signal in New York City. WWRV is diplexed from Salem's 970 sticks. Remember that Salem once owned 1330 and sold it to buy WMCA; that was before duopolies were permitted. The most likely bidders would seem to me to be Peter Davidson (620) or Principle Group (540 in Islip).

 

[radioguybroadcasting]

yeah, I doubt 1330 would go for $30 mil today.

That might be the ASKING price, but in today's market I wouldn't bet on the selling price being that high. Now who would buy? Arthur Liu appears to be up to the maximum on AM signals in the market (930, 1380, 1430, 1530, 1660). I don't know whether he also owns 1480. If he does, he must be waivered over the limit. Salem isn't buying right now, although I suppose they might make an exception for a decent signal in New York City. WWRV is diplexed from Salem's 970 sticks. Remember that Salem once owned 1330 and sold it to buy WMCA; that was before duopolies were permitted. The most likely bidders would seem to me to be Peter Davidson (620) or Principle Group (540 in Islip).

Yup, Art Liu does own 1480, WZRC.. the old Z Rock affiliate.. now doing Korean.

 

[TonySantiago]

Dance Music on AM would sound like crap, but anything would be better than the contemporary Guido Dance and stuck in the late 80s/early 90s Freeystyle that Pulse 87 plays.

Guido Dance is popular in the NYC/Long Island area, but it isn't the only type of Dance Music out there. I hope that Pulse 87 in it's current form never gets a full FM signal.

Let's not "stereotype" anyone here; that is not good.

Pulse 87 has that audience and if people are tuning in to dance music, that's great! Though I do think that 80's/90's freestyle should be reduced and not treated as if it was 1988. At this point, let 'KTU do that.

But you DO bring up a point Jersey Dude and it gets back to what I was thinking with the deep house/afrocentric sounds of dance. I'm just glad that backhandedly I wasn't the only one thinking this. You would tap into the African/Caribbean-American crowd but surprisingly get the Latinos who want more than what Pulse 87 is offering as well as one market totally ignored....ASIANS! I see the underground clubs and lounges and there is a significant Asian crowd in full force wanting to party! You would also get the whites that aren't part of the Pulse 87 crowd tuning in.

Basically, two stations doing dance but going at different angles can co-exist here.

 

[MarcB]

Yup, Art Liu does own 1480, WZRC.. the old Z Rock affiliate.. now doing Korean.

1480 hasn't been Korean for several years. 1660 is the Korean station now. 1480 is Cantonese. (And 1380 is Madarin).