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1360 Format Change

A

argentarius

Guest
With 1360 switching to Business Radio on Sept 1st, any thoughts about another talk outlet possible in Pittsburgh? Will 970 go progressive talk, or maybe 100.7??? Can't believe a blue city in a blue state won't have a single progressive voice in an election year.
 
since the Business Talk format flamed out so badly on 1080 several years ago (and apparently never really got
started on 1550) I am surprised by that choice. The type of people to whom that is targeted seem very unlikely
to seek their news on AM radio these days.
 
argentarius said:
With 1360 switching to Business Radio on Sept 1st, any thoughts about another talk outlet possible in Pittsburgh? Will 970 go progressive talk, or maybe 100.7??? Can't believe a blue city in a blue state won't have a single progressive voice in an election year.

Would you settle for hearing liberal voices? I can't believe that anyone can't hear all the liberal voices they want on KDKA-TV, WTAE-TV, WPXI-TV and most of the cable news networks. With that much liberal programming, why would Pittsburgh also need a liberal radio station?

I mean, losing 1360 as a "liberal voice" isn't like more than a handful of people aren't going to be able to hear what they want anymore. From their ratings, it's clear there wasn't exactly a earth shattering groundswell of enthusiasm for what was on 1360.
 
Before we do any further pontificating, let's take a breath and get our facts straight. WPTT never has been "progressive talk"--it was a secondary signal that featured some progressive shows, with a day-old rerun of Laura Ingraham in morning drive--not a very wise strategy in this era of niched, highly-targeted programming. (Yes, I too liked the old days of stations with a wide diversity of opinion, but that's less and less realistic in the modern era--especially for a smaller signal trying to make its mark).

I've said this before on other boards and I'll say it here--in very few markets has progressive talk had a substantially fair test--by that I mean a signal that covers the market, with enough local programming, services (news, weather and traffic), community commitment, and outside promotion to make it a viable competitor. However, the format has nonetheless racked up some notable successes-- we might start with Randi Rhodes' victory over Sean Hannity in Men, 25-54 in the fall 2005 New York ARB, when Air America was on WLIB. We might also note the fact that CC's progressive KPOJ/Portland is the only one of four Portland commerical talkers to crack Top 10, 25-54, in the most recent book there. There are numerous other examples as well.

And lastly--however much "liberal" talk there is on television...there is even more conservative talk on TV--a whole network full of it on Fox News. But I don't see anyone arguing that for that reason, conservative talk can't work on radio.

Bottom line: Are there markets in which progressive talk would have trouble? Yes (same is true of conservative talk). But progressive talk as a format faces a very negative irony in 2008--the industry continues to judge the entire format on the basis of the problems that Air America created for itself in 2004, and totally ignores the fact that the format nationally is four years older, wiser and stronger than it was in 2004. Maybe something to think about before doing monkey-see, monkey-do and signing on a market's third right-wing talker or fourth sports station.
 
WPTT may have had some conservative shows, but they were not in good time slots or were in tape delay at 7 a.m. Not the recipe for success.

WPTT's bread and butter was its liberal listeners. That's why they took off Neal Boortz when he was the only one doing any promotion for them.

I can see reading your past posts from all over the board you're a pretty big lib. Okay- that's fine.

However, I would state there is far more liberal programming on TV. Let us just say that FOX News is right-leaning. I don't disagree.

But who would possibly disagree that MSNBC and CNN are left-leaning? Who would possibly say the cultural political messages on TV aren't overwhelming liberal?

Pittsburgh also has had liberal talk stations. WTAE was a left-leaning station that could have, for instance, carried Rush Limbaugh live as he was gaining momentum in the early 90s. Instead, they stuck with Cullen, Hoerth, and Musick. Eventually, the listeners decided they'd rather pursue other general talk options and the station switched to all sports.
 
I read somewhere, though I can't remember where, that people who vote conservative tend to enjoy listening to someone they can agree with on the radio, so conservative talk radio can get OK ratings. The article went on to say that liberals don't really enjoy listening to talk radio at all, even when they agree with the hosts, but they're twice as likely to listen to a music format radio station than conservatives are. It also said that most sports talk fans don't give a damn about politics.

I probably should have jotted down a note about where I read that, because I sure as hell couldn't find that article again on a bet. I'm positive my wife threw the magazine out, since she throws all the magazines out after a week whether I'm finished reading them or not.
 
"I can see reading your past posts from all over the board you're a pretty big lib. Okay- that's fine. "

Irrelevant to this discussion--I am focusing on programming strategies. I don't dispute that there are some obstacles to successfully programming progressive talk, as there are with all formats. I do believe that there is a widespread and unfounded industry bias against this format. When properly executed, it achieves something comparable to the sports talk format--it doesn't necessarily attain the highest cume, but it does get a demographically desirable audience (about ten years on average younger than conservative talk formats), and it draws an upscale listenership.

"WPTT may have had some conservative shows, but they were not in good time slots or were in tape delay at 7 a.m. Not the recipe for success."

My point exactly--it was not a progressive station.

'WPTT's bread and butter was its liberal listeners."

And you know this how? Let me get this straight--Laura Ingraham in morning drive--the most important daypart for any radio station--especially an AM spoken-word station--and its bread and butter was its liberal listeners? Then why not Bill Press, or preferably Lynn Cullen in morning drive? Understand this--by no reasonable industry standard could WPTT be labeled a "liberal" or for that matter a "conservative" station. It was a mish-mash, which explains why it has failed. WDVE would cease to be a rock station if it began mixing in Tim McGraw and Faith Hill (and I like them both). I don't pretend to be enlightening anyone here--this is Radio 101!

"I read somewhere, though I can't remember where, that people who vote conservative tend to enjoy listening to someone they can agree with on the radio, so conservative talk radio can get OK ratings. The article went on to say that liberals don't really enjoy listening to talk radio at all, even when they agree with the hosts, but they're twice as likely to listen to a music format radio station than conservatives are. It also said that most sports talk fans don't give a damn about politics."

You may have stumbled on to some truth here. There is considerable evidence that many conservatives have a strong need to hear their points of view reaffirmed in the mass media. I can't prove it, but my personal belief is that many of these people are very averse to and frightened of the inevitability of progressive social change, and need a lifeline to their past and traditions. For whatever reason, progressives seem to have less of a need for affirmation in talk radio and other media, which is why it's always been my belief that progressive talk can't simply be the "flip side" of conservative talk--it should avoid preachiness, emphasize humor and satire, and it need not always be afraid to delve into some sophisticated NPR-like depth. Thom Hartmann, who has been carried on WPTT, and who is beating Rush Limbaugh in certain major markets, has demonstrated that such a show can work.

We must not lose sight of the fact that 11 million people tune into NPR's Morning edition each weekday--many of these people once listened to commercial radio--which esentially left them. That's a large poaching ground for progressive forms of talk.
 
Renda's decision has nothing to do with political philosophy and everything to do with the bottom line. The business network is just about free compared to what he was paying previously. Metro Networks/Westwood One will provide what little local content the stick carries.

Renda really doesn't care about liberal vs. conservative. All they care about is the $$$. In the end that makes them the same as many in the business.

Trust me, the only reason that Rush Limbaugh is on the air is that he's making money for people. If someone came along tomorrow that pulled in those sorts of numbers (or even 1/3 of what Rush claims) stations would be jumping all over that person/show.
 
I agree that Renda's decision was not about political philosophy and I don't think anyone here has suggested that it was. Here's what I don't believe though: the often-expressed adage in this business that " if there is a market for a format...it will be on the air". The fact is that various biases often get in the way of other strong human urges--even the urge to make money. Two specific examples just so you know I'm not blowing smoke:

Prior to the arrival of CC's 620 KPOJ in Portland, Oregon (progressive talk and the only one of four commercial talkers to show up in the Top 10, 25-54, in the most recent ARB), four right-wing talkers were battling it out in a clearly left-of-center market. The market for progressive talk was there to be profited from, but the move wasn't made until 2004, after the repeated failure of the 620 frequency to score ratings with conservative talk. When the format was flipped in 2004, the station took off almost instantly.

2) At this very moment, there are three conservative talkers in Albany, New York--a market where progressive talk has done very well on numerous occaions in recent years. Only one of these stations, WGY, has any ratings to speak of, in a market where right-wing talk has consistently scored below national averages, but the entire AM radio market is so drunk on right-wing Kool-Aid, that they can't see a viable alternative when it is staring them in the face.
 
Maybe they'd have more success at attracting liberasl to their stations if instead of putting on progressive talk shows they'd put on liberal talk shows. I mean, if they want to attract conservative listeners they run conservative shows, right? So it there's a big market of liberal listeners to be tapped into, why run progressive talk shows? That makes no sense. If you want to attract liberal listeners, run liberal talk shows.

I mean, Duh!!
 
Yes, this amounts to Renada basically giving up on 1360. And the business programming will just be there to fill up the spots between brokered shows. This station now becomes another 620/770/WEDO. There is no thought or concern whatsoever to ratings or audience. NONE.

And by the way, Biz, Bristol, CT is the home of ESPN.
 
argentarius said:
Can't believe a blue city in a blue state won't have a single progressive voice in an election year.

This phrase means nothing when it comes to talking about commercial radio formats. It's not about the "progressive voice", it's about Renda being able to make a profit off of said voices.

How do Lynn Cullen and Thom Hartmann do on 1360, ratings and sales wise? I'm serious. I assume Ms. Cullen, being a veteran local host, has a decent base. But as noted, WPTT could hardly be called a "liberal talk station" despite her presence, and the presence of a high-profile syndicated liberal host like Mr. Hartmann.

Yes, Parttimer is right...the "business format", assuming this is what's in the works for 1360, is likely to be a placeholder to keep the station on the air between brokered programming. I'm no fan of it, but...I'm not the one trying to make money off a not-so-great signal.
 
Okay Jim, to answer your questions-

I know that WPTT's Bread and Butter was its liberal audience because that's what their PD told me when I worked there.

This also was upheld in the Post-Gazette article on Cullen's departure, when it was revealed that was the only show that got any ad revenue.

Don't agree with your idea that WPTT wasn't a liberal station just because they devoted some time to Ingram. That's like saying the Post-Gazette isn't the Democrat paper in town because Ruth Ann Dailey writes for them, or that 104.7 isn't a right-wing station because of their sports programming, or that FOX News isn't right leaning because of Alan Colmes.

The shows WPTT was known for were liberal and had been since Jerry Bowyer left. The ratings were half of what they were with Bowyer.

I do agree that it is not necessarily true that if there is a market for a format, it would be on the air. For instance, it took Pittsburgh years to get an all-sports radio station (the first was actually WPTT about eight years after the format debuted) and three years more for another station to have local hosts.
 
If any AM or FM radio doesn't do any promotions or advertising that AM/FM station will fail. If progressive fails then why that Ed Schultz is pulling 3.25 million listeners per week. (BTW the same numbers that Bill-O pulls.) Heck he is on a radio station in Boise ID. WPTT was never progressive talk.
 
In the jungle, when the elephants go to war, the ants get trampled upon. As WMCK, WIXZ and as WPTT, 1360's facility allowed them to be only a seceondary or terciery player in Pittsburgh. At times the product was great, but those days for that facility are over.
 
You know, for a market the cynics say is dying, on a station the cynics say nobody listens to changing to a format nobody supposedly wants . . .

This thread is currently No. 2 on the Radio-Info hot topics.
 
"I know that WPTT's Bread and Butter was its liberal audience because that's what their PD told me when I worked there.

This also was upheld in the Post-Gazette article on Cullen's departure, when it was revealed that was the only show that got any ad revenue."

Sometimes we devote a lot of space on this board to the mundane--this thread is a good example--and I fully admit that I have helped to fuel the fire. Perhaps Cullen's show did score the most revenue, but there really wasn't much bread and butter there was there, because if there were, the station wouldn't be changing format would it?

And I guarantee you this: however much revenue there was for Cullen, there would have been more, had she not been stupidly preceded by a nearly 24-hour-old rerun of Laura Ingraham.

But my central point remains the same. If Laura Ingraham is doing morning drive (tape delay or not), she is effectively the captain of the ship, and it is not a liberal station. KTLK in Los Angeles--that's a liberal station, because, you see, there are no conservatives on it. Ditto for WWRL in New York, and WINZ in Miami. It's really not hard. It's called Radio 101.
 
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