1470 - An Opportunity for Experimentation?

[SCMcKinney]

I am speaking as a radio industry 'outsider', but a very active listener, and interested in the business potential for radio.

Since 1470 apparently has no immediate replacement format set, now that ESPN has moved to 1040, does this not present Genesis a golden opportunity to audition formats before deciding what to do with it? I would hate to see 1470 euthanized with a Spanish format. I cannot believe that a Spanish music format would bill better than an English speaking one, especially when there are other Spanish music AM's already here, and especially when there is a Spanish music FM in town. If they had to go Spanish, consider a Spanish Talk format. Radio Aqui 710 is a ratings leader en Miami.

Consider that in Tampa Bay there is no Adult Standards anymore. WGUL 860 was not running dead last when they changed formats. If I recall correctly 1450 in Sarasota is doing decently well.

Consider that there is no home for Air America in the second largest metro area in Florida. They are apparently doing well enough for WINZ 940 in Palm Beach.

Consider Country Oldies and/or Bluegrass, which would be innovative and unique. Although to do something like what 650 WSM does would take some money, there must be syndicated programming of this sort out there.

Consider a real All News station. Again, to make this really swing would take some money, but 790 WPNN in Pensacola has carrried the audio feed of CNN for several years.

If time is not a pressure situation, and 1470 is otherwise just going to simulcast 1040, why not experiment? Give the content providers a 30 or 60 day trial, and let listeners vote with their arbitron books or with actual 'call in with your opinion' promotions.

What am I missing in the real business world of radio management with this idea?

 

[smedge2006]

A few hits from the smoke of radio "conventional wisdom":

If they had to go Spanish, consider a Spanish Talk format.  Radio Aqui 710 is a ratings leader en Miami.

But as a poster on R-I who is considered an expert in Spanish-language formats will tell you, the audience is aging Cuban exiles. It makes English-language talk look youthful by comparison.

Consider that in Tampa Bay there is no Adult Standards anymore.  WGUL 860 was not running dead last when they changed formats.  If I recall correctly 1450 in Sarasota is doing decently well.

That pesky demographic issue again. Tampa Bay's average age used to skew way up there in the 70s and 80s. The market has gotten a lot younger. Upper-demo stations used to survive by delivering volume of audience over demographic desirability. (At one time, the Tampa market had FOUR big band stations.) Changes in the market plus the continued success of WDUV likely means no Adult Standards station.

Consider Country Oldies and/or Bluegrass, which would be innovative and unique.  Although to do something like what 650 WSM does would take some money, there must be syndicated programming of this sort out there.

Classic Country has been done before, at least a couple of times by 1010. Here's the problem. Most people come to country as adults. So if you were 35 when a song was a hit 20 years ago, you're 55 now. Also Tampa Bay is not culturally a "Southern" metro, so not as many people grew up with country.

Consider that there is no home for Air America in the second largest metro area in Florida.  They are apparently doing well enough for WINZ 940 in Palm Beach.

So well that they fired the morning drive talent (USF grad) who was showing up the sister conservative talker by beating them in the ratings. A case of self-sabotage perhaps. But I would prefer that if liberal talk does come to Tampa, it's on a better signal than 1470 and a company other than Genesis. A half hearted effort on a weak signal will likely fail and provide more ammunition to the agenda-driven critics who say "See! Liberal talk doesn't work!"

Consider a real All News station.  Again, to make this really swing would take some money, but 790 WPNN in Pensacola has carrried the audio feed of CNN for several years.

1470 WAS an all news station in the late 70's. They used every technological trick available at the time to make it work, including an early form of voice tracking. Desperation over the lack of spot revenue prompted the owner -- one Bud Paxson -- to accept can openers as payment for commercials and sell them over the air. That effort became the Suncoast Bargaineers Club, which went on local cable TV as the Home Shopping Channel -- and the rest is history.

If time is not a pressure situation, and 1470 is otherwise just going to simulcast 1040, why not experiment?  Give the content providers a 30 or 60 day trial, and let listeners vote with their arbitron books or with actual 'call in with your opinion' promotions.

60 days is WAY too short a time to judge the success of a format under the diary system. And AM formats build very slowly if at all.

Bottom Line: 1470 is too weak a signal, too high on the dial, with no room for improvement (the land around it is all built up and there's no room for a second tower to allow a power increase).It's too hemmed in by signals at 1460 in Bartow and 1490 in Bradenton.  It never had much of a presence when AM was king, and I'm sure no resources would be put into promoting whatever goes on that signal.

The only hopes I see for that signal are:  1) brokering   2) developing an EXTREMELY local format -- "Palm Harbor's Radio Station" or 3) moving the station to a less-radioed area in need of a local AM news talker, such as Citrus County. I would support a fourth option -- taking the darn thing dark and selling the land. Junk AM's just make it harder for other station to improve their facilities and have a chance at survival.

 

[SCMcKinney]

But... doesn't the license have some sort of value? Just letting it go dark would essentially be tossing that money in the trash. Is it possible to 'lease space on another stick' to allow for better coverage in the population center? (This would allow for the land the existing tower is on to be sold as you suggest).

In general, how much does it cost to power up a transmitter and perform needed maintenance? If Genesis simply put a formatted stack of unique CD's on a changer and interspersed that with 'dollar a holler' advertisments, would that make enough to pay the bills and give a niche of the community entertainment they don't currently have? Otherwise, what is the argument for low power FM's existing?

 

[Parttimer]

Broker it to the Greeks on 1520. Covers Tarpon Springs nicely (and little else). This is at least a better signal than that is.

 

[billalm]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but keeping it a simulcast of 1040 simply for additional night coverage might make sense. Although the signals overlap during the day, 1040 has no signal to the north at night and 1470 could cover that area. But that would depend on just how much money the sports format is bringing in... might not be justified.

 

[Parttimer]

Probably the best plan is to broker it most of the time and then use it to cover conflicts when they want to carry live events.

 

[SCMcKinney]

I hear what you are all saying, but 1470 does cover Tampa Bay decently well during the day, and there is no Sinatra played on WDUV. I heard 1470 solid on I 75 around Sun City, so there would be potential market there. I have also heard them as far north as Apalachicola, so the daytime power is not insignificant.

Nighttime is another story, and I used to get very frustrated at not being able to hear the Seminoles when the sun went down in Gulfport. However, the idea of using 1470 to augment 1040's weaknesses in north Pinellas should have some merit. Either that or the weakness of 820 at night.

I submit to Genesis (if powers that be are listening) that there is more potential for 1470 than brokering (WTAN does not have a fullsome schedule), going Spanish music (see my original post), or going dark.

 

[smedge2006]

I heard 1470 solid on I 75 around Sun City, so there would be potential market there.

The fact that you heard it on a car radio is not the same as the signal penetrating all those houses full of retirees surrounded by power lines and other noisemakers. Sun City would get about 2 millivolts from 1470 (not city grade). They'll try to pull it in, and some buzz from overhead will make them give up. Not to mention all the summer thunderstorms. As previously mentioned, 1460 in Bartow and 1490 in Bradenton will prevent any sort of upgrade or much in the way of moving the stick.

Even when AM was big, 1470 was an also-ran. When audiences shifted to FM it became an afterthought. It has been used for all kinds of experimental formats. Its arguably greatest "success" (incubating Home Shopping Network) didn't draw any measurable Arbitron numbers. It's been Top-40 (deep in the shadow of WLCY), big band, all news, shopping radio, satellite news talk, simulcasted a couple of FM formats, Greek language, satellite gospel, Christian talk, business talk and ESPN. Time to end the experimentation.

 

[Louis_009]

I am from Crawfordville Fla (big bend area) and I can get AM-1470 during the daytime as well. I am glad that's ESPN moves to AM-1040 b/c I can get some Tampa Bay's AM stations up here in north florida big bend. But everyday during the afternoon around 3pm or so AM-1470 singal begins to get fuzzy and I was thinking those big AM night stations begins to kick in late in the afternoons. I do know I hear something on Greek Radio on 1520 they do a HawkRadio for a few hours on weekdays (I think). Maybe if HawkRadio can do 1470 I just saying but as I read these posted they saying that 1470 is going to be spainsh.

I rember AM-680 used to be RUMBA a few years back that was a really good station utill they flip it to something else.

I can tell ya that during the daytime I get Tampa Bay's AM Stations and they are...

WDAE-620
WGES-680
WLCC-760
WMGG-820-now WWBA
WFLA-970
WWBA-1040-now ESPN 1040
WHNZ-1250 (barely)
AM-1380-Dinesy Radio
WHBO-1470
WPSO-1500-I wonder if AM-1500 is spanish or Greek
AM-1520-Greek/HawkRadio

AM-1500/1520 I know they both GreekRadio in Tampa Bay but I maybe thinking another AM-1500 I pick up and it seem like all spanish

Tallahassee has lost an ESPN Radio not long ago on AM-1410 as they flip it to gospel. But alittle good news that AM-1040 is now ESPN the singal on 1040 can reach Tallahassee and the big bend as well.

 

[jefflaurence]

Any chance it could be an automated TIS station that runs spots? They did this for a while in Wilmington, Delaware with the old WAMS. Could it rebroadcast police calls? (This was done in Canada but DELAYED 30 min) We had an actual "pirate station" here in the mountains for a while around Y2K that was doing all this right wing extremist talk and survivalist stuff..real "Rocky D" sort of radio..Stan the Money Man type of paranoia-based doomsday radio..selling water purifiers, and rifle re-loaders, and kits on how to make a "bear den" fallout shelter...and how to build a solar cell with sourdough bread mix, and crayons.. It was basically a network of some kind that encouraged replay on micro-stations and pirate stations..really extreme stuff, and hosts that had the juice to get people riled up..I think it was called American Responders Network..or something like that..It was on one licensed AM in Colorado, or New Mexico, or Montana..don't remember, but the internet was thier means to send the audio..and they had callers from all over the world..I would love to hear real NUTJOB radio again..Bring back Bob Snyder, and Chuck Harder, and Ralph Nader. "radio that makes you mad" WNGR "ANGERADIO-1470"

On a teachnical note..what's the status of that old 1470 tower? Is it still climbable? Does ANYONE seek out an AM station at all anymore? Or do they "run accross it" on thier way to or from 970?

 

[Ferreri]

Jeff: We put a new xmittr in there before the station was sold back in 98. The ground system was always a huge problem and think that during Brad James' trenure they did some major improvements as the audio and signal is much improved. Never forget being notified that the beacon was not working. Tower guy goes up and dicovers that it was gone! Someone climbed the tower and stole the beacon bulb! You know, there is room here for adult standards. That, along with heavy local involvement in Palm Harbor and Dunedin would make someone a decent living.

 

[sbe1]

I have an aerial photo of the 1470 site where you can see all the lines where a new ground system was plowed in. This was maybe 6 or 7 years ago. I'll try and dig it out and post it. The ground conductivity in this area is really lousy unless you can plant your tower in the middle of a salt marsh. Plus, a station up at the high end of the band doesnt get out nearly as well as one at the lower end. Look how well 620 gets out... in the middle of salt water at the low end of the band and look how good it gets out.

 

[drt]

Jeff: We put a new xmittr in there before the station was sold back in 98. The ground system was always a huge problem and think that during Brad James' trenure they did some major improvements as the audio and signal is much improved. Never forget being notified that the beacon was not working. Tower guy goes up and dicovers that it was gone! Someone climbed the tower and stole the beacon bulb! You know, there is room here for adult standards. That, along with heavy local involvement in Palm Harbor and Dunedin would make someone a decent living.

I had been thinking along the same lines. 1470, with it's location (on the dial and geographically) and grounding will never be a major player; especially since on most radio and even receivers and tuners the AM band is an afterthought (not to mention all the man made interference-i.e. computers, new energy saving light bulbs etc), but...... that being said 1470 puts a out a good clean signal for Dunedin, the Countryside area and Palm Harbor and they might want to consider capitalizing on that area and offering Mom and Pop businesses advertising rates that would be lower than the big guys and that would target north central Pinellas. Adlult standards could be a good fit for north central Pinellas.

Here in s.e. St. Petersburg, I get a better signal out of 1450 WSDV - Sarasota (and their sideband I-Boc hash on 1440 and 1460!) than I do 1470.

Sometimes a station has to admit that due to whatever reasons (usually signal) that they aren't going to be in the top 10 or even top 20 in the ratings and should concentrate on a smaller geographic area. (WWJB 1450 in Brooksville is an example; officially in the Tampa/St Pete Market, but they realize that on that frequency and being 1,000 watts and 50 miles north of Tampa that they be a will never be a major player; so they concentrate on local talk mornings and mid day plus a lot of promotions for the Brooksville/Springhill area).

drt

 

[David Sharp]

Local programs for 1470...and ALL the other stations! How's that for a pipe dream! But really, last time I looked, TSLs were down across the range (someone correct me if that has changed). Local news...local DJs...less networking...I know it costs money but someone once said, "You have to spend money to make money." If you don't keep "local radio local", why should anyone listen? That's why it's so sad to see the talent being pushed aside, how WFLA has lost some of it's "localism," how things have crashed at WSJT. It's happening in Australia too and listeners repay the stations by NOT listening.

 

[jmtillery]

I think 1470 has more hidden potential than what seemingly appears on the surface. I see 1470 as a sleeping giant, waiting to be awakened. And don't confuse giant with station power. If 1470 is the only game in town catering to its own local market, then it has the potential of owning that market which makes it a GIANT in terms of competion that is, instead, concentrating on Greater Tampa Bay. The key is localism, and 1470 has a pretty decent signal during the daytime. It could program something local to Palm Harbor, New Port Richey, Dunedin, Clearwater and the surrounding area and could do nicely in revenue and listenership. It's just a matter of "taking the bulls by the horns" and moving forward with it. Anything is better than simply letting it set there or, worse yet, go dark.

Mark Tillery,
Ocala, Florida
[email protected]

 

[Ferreri]

Jeff: We put a new xmittr in there before the station was sold back in 98. The ground system was always a huge problem and think that during Brad James' trenure they did some major improvements as the audio and signal is much improved. Never forget being notified that the beacon was not working. Tower guy goes up and dicovers that it was gone! Someone climbed the tower and stole the beacon bulb! You know, there is room here for adult standards. That, along with heavy local involvement in Palm Harbor and Dunedin would make someone a decent living.

I had been thinking along the same lines. 1470, with it's location (on the dial and geographically) and grounding will never be a major player; especially since on most radio and even receivers and tuners the AM band is an afterthought (not to mention all the man made interference-i.e. computers, new energy saving light bulbs etc), but...... that being said 1470 puts a out a good clean signal for Dunedin, the Countryside area and Palm Harbor and they might want to consider capitalizing on that area and offering Mom and Pop businesses advertising rates that would be lower than the big guys and that would target north central Pinellas. Adlult standards could be a good fit for north central Pinellas.

Here in s.e. St. Petersburg, I get a better signal out of 1450 WSDV - Sarasota (and their sideband I-Boc hash on 1440 and 1460!) than I do 1470.

Sometimes a station has to admit that due to whatever reasons (usually signal) that they aren't going to be in the top 10 or even top 20 in the ratings and should concentrate on a smaller geographic area. (WWJB 1450 in Brooksville is an example; officially in the Tampa/St Pete Market, but they realize that on that frequency and being 1,000 watts and 50 miles north of Tampa that they be a will never be a major player; so they concentrate on local talk mornings and mid day plus a lot of promotions for the Brooksville/Springhill area).

drt
[/quote

Exactly! Nothing wrong with carving out and owning a piece of geography and a niche audience. Be true to the core and if anyone else listens it is a bonus.

 

[Liver Lips]

What ever you board (bored) heads believe --- the truth still is they are going Spanish in January.
Do not know what format, but it will be Spanish. That's partially why they brought in Albertini.
Bank on it, already in motion. ;D

 

[Ferreri]

What ever you board (bored) heads believe --- the truth still is they are going Spanish in January.
Do not know what format, but it will be Spanish. That's partially why they brought in Albertini.
Bank on it, already in motion. ;D

This is like fantasy football. It isn't a case of what is "believed" as much as it is personal opinion and "what would you do" scenarios if someone handed you an AM station with signal limitations. Sure Spanish is an option since 820 no longer is in the genre. Makes sense except for the signal liability. Is there enough Spanish audience in their pattern, paticularly at night?

 

[Parttimer]

I think they'd be making a big mistake with Spanish. The signal is noisy in Tampa (and I used to listen to it... drove from home in Palm Harbor to work in Brandon for a year and a half... ended up getting Sirius to listen to ESPN off the bird). And make no mistake, your primary audience for that format is in Tampa. Night is Northern Pinellas, period.

But I guess their minds are made up.