16:9 aspect ratio on basic cable?

[whit979]

I have a minor gripe about our cable service, and I'd like to know if this is the same--or different--in other markets.

When the digital transition occurred, our cable system continued carrying the digital over-the-air channels in 4:3 format on their original analog cable channel assignments. They also started sending viewers the OTA channels on a separate digital channel, so that people who have HDTVs can enjoy the full 16:9 picture. Even though I have a widescreen TV, I wonder about the people who don't, and how their viewing experience is affected.

NBC, for example, has been filming and broadcasting shows in 16:9 for years. Prior to the digital transition, they made use of letterboxes so that standard-definition TV viewers could see the whole thing. Now, cable simply lops off the sides so that the picture is square. Do cable providers in other markets do the same thing, or have any of them elected to show their downconverted OTA channels in the 16:9 aspect ratio?

 

[Mario500]

Before and after the analog signals were shut down in the Mobile-Pensacola TV market, WPMI-TV's prime time network programs produced in the 16:9 format, along with "Late Night with Conan O'Brien" and "Saturday Night Live", appeared in letterbox for Comcast's basic cable subscribers. High-definition programming on WALA-TV, WEAR-TV, and WKRG-TV produced in the 16:9 format appeared in the 4:3 format for basic cable subscribers before and after their analog signals ended on June 12th. The cable system before and after the shutdown had the stations' high-definition programming on separate channels for digital cable subscribers and everything is in their original format.

In December 2008, shortly before shutting down the network's analog signals on February 17th, Alabama Public Television's main programming began appearing in the wrong format for basic cable subscribers. As a result, local and national programs produced in the 16:9 aspect appeared bigger on the screen and programs produced in the 4:3 format were stretched. WEAR-TV's network programs produced in the 16:9 format appear bigger as well.

 

[whit979]

I'm in northern Alabama, and we've been having huge problems with APT too. At least now I know that it's not just limited to our local APT translator. They show programs in true HD about 5% of the time. The rest of the time they will show stuff in SD, which they will stretch to widescreen on the HD channels--meaning that people with widescreen TVs see them double-stretched on the SD channel. What a mess!

 

[jal41]

Many PBS stations are caught in a debacle over center-cutting/letterbox for SD viewers. This is because PBS, unlike commercial broadcasters, does not produce programs center-cut safe (graphics go off on both sides). Many PBS stations have no clue what to do, and most have taken the center-cut route. Mandating PBS programming be center-cut safe would be a quick fix to the problem. If the local PBS station is messing up legacy 4:3 content...there is a major technical problem on their end.

Most stations (commercial or otherwise) are carried on cable in 4:3 center cut. Letterboxing is common on some cable channels (the Discovery networks and the A&E/History networks in particular), but most others are center-cut. Many people do not like letterboxing, and would rather take center-cut. Most movies made from Hollywood have been shown center-cut on TV for well over 50 years with little complaint, not to mention video tape. (The letterboxing trend really came in when movies were released on DVD in this fashion).

The broadcaster dictates how the station is carried on cable. Some can change from letterbox/center-cut via codes in their signal, but the FCC failed to require a standard to do so. A few broadcasters do carry an SD feed on their .2 subchannel, but that is becoming less and less. Programming is carried in 16:9 HD format, and something has to be done to get the programming on 4:3 analog televisions.

Not only was cable affected by NBC letterbox programming...but the now discontinued analog OTA feeds. NBC discontinued this...because analog was going away.

When a 16:9 signal is downconverted to 4:3 letterbox...legacy 4:3 content is shown with black boxes on all four sides of the screen. This appears to be one reason center-cutting is becoming the norm.

The FCC has manadated digital HD feeds on cable systems, as well as feeds that will work with older TVs (delivery of those can be analog or digital).

A simple solution would be to make cable boxes downconvert HD signals either way. HD cable boxes do this, and the OTA digital converter boxes do this as well. To fix the already existing SD boxes with cannot recieve an HD signal, the problem could be solved by carrying 16:9 HD signals on two channels. One would be downconverted to 4:3 letterbox, and the other 4:3 center-cut.

 

[nathannah]

WMVS in Milwaukee has been a major source of annoyance since they added their signal fulltime in HD in September. I don't know what's going on; most of the post-2005 children's programming is produced in 16:9 and sent out in 1080i, yet it's pillarboxed to 4:3 once it gets onto WMVS's channel. Some of the primetime programs also appear in the same manner, and it seems like behind the scenes, there's a battle between the viewers who just don't care and want the picture to fill their screen, and those who want it all in 16:9, even on a 4:3 screen.

Many of the cable companies around here were recieving complaints about it too. My Charter system had switched to carrying the digital signals of all the Milwaukee and Green Bay channels in November on the basic lifeline tier. However, they made an exception for both WMVS and WPNE (Wisconsin Public Television) in Green Bay and continued to carry those analog signals for everyone. While everyone else was center-cut 4:3 from the HD feed, the PBS stations stayed in good ol' NTSC up on cable until almost the bitter end. We lost WPT for a day on Charter in April when they switched and Charter forgot to switch over to WPNE-DT, while WMVS's analog channel was finally switched two days before June 12, mostly because of viewer complaints/FUD to Charter about a large conversion ticker taking up a 1/3 of the screen.

 

[cspotrun]

is there a reason why some cable companies still have duplicate network channels, (the regular channels designated for analog and the HD side?) if everything is supposed to be HD why do those channels look fuzzy compared to the HD channels? confused.

 

[Markxxx]

Digital TV not HDTV is mandated and digital cable isn't the same as OTA digital cable TV. The FCC has said cable companies must support analog cable until 2012. The cable company can make an exception to this if they agree to provide at least one digital converter box free to each household.

In the City of Chicago (but not the suburbs) Comcast has done this. They've dropped all analog and just have gone with digital.

 

[FreddyE1977]

my local MyTV affiliate is running HD widescreen on their 22.1 and cropped 4:3 picture in SD on their 22.2 channel. I suppose cable systems can get either. Many of the other locals are using their side channels for weather, RTV, etc. so they don't have this option. It is an issue on small screens when they have to letterbox down.

 

[whit979]

I guess one of the things that I felt would take away from the viewing experience for SD viewers is that the networks that were taking full advantage of widescreen filming are now having their shows broadcast in 4:3 on SD channels. This becomes a problem on shows like ER or Law & Order. Check out the SD channel of TNT when they're showing some of the newer L&Os. There's a lot more action happening in those widescreen areas than what I realized.

Our state PBS affiliate continues to play with picture sizes on their digital channel. Now, instead of stretching SD programming to widescreen, they've decided to just magnify the picture until it takes up the entire 16:9 field. So now, instead of programs being stretched, everybody's heads are lopped off. Ridiculous!

 

[Mario500]

Here is a message I received from Mike McKenzie, the director of public information for Alabama Public Television:

"Thank you for writing. Yes, we are most aware of the problem. It comes from having a combination of 4x3 and 16x9 format programs and NOT having the right equipment to store HD programs in their native format at the same time PBS has begun feeding everything in HD. The dramatic $3 million cut we had from the State last year (which continues for next fiscal year as well due to the economy)prevented APT from acquiring this equipment as scheduled. At present, we're stuck with one awkward choice or another, either of which makes some of the programming look wrong. When we are able to buy and install the needed equipment, this problem will go away.

Sincerely,

Michael McKenzie
Public Information Director
Alabama Public Television"

 

[whit979]

Here is a message I received from Mike McKenzie, the director of public information for Alabama Public Television:

"Thank you for writing. Yes, we are most aware of the problem. It comes from having a combination of 4x3 and 16x9 format programs and NOT having the right equipment to store HD programs in their native format at the same time PBS has begun feeding everything in HD. The dramatic $3 million cut we had from the State last year (which continues for next fiscal year as well due to the economy)prevented APT from acquiring this equipment as scheduled. At present, we're stuck with one awkward choice or another, either of which makes some of the programming look wrong. When we are able to buy and install the needed equipment, this problem will go away.

Sincerely,

Michael McKenzie
Public Information Director
Alabama Public Television"

Thanks for posting. I feel more sympathetic to their situation, knowing that it's an economy thing. Wish they'd just do pillarboxes, though.