1690 WVON

[Anyacat]

Well, I had been waiting to comment on this for the entire time this deal was in play, (I have been in the loop on this deal since day one) I kept reading this board and laughing, because everyone was positive that it was going to be some form of spanish, like one of the CC spanish formats. Dave to my knowledge there was never anything in Inside radio about WRLL and a change to Spanish. Not sure what verison of Inside Radio you get?? Another confirmation that the internet info boards are a great place to spread gossip and info about this business with very little fact.

Dan Mettler
Regional VP Engineering
Clear Channel Radio.

Well, Dan, while you are sitting there laughing are you also laughing at the people who loved RealOldies and who miss Tommy and Larry. Are you also laughing at Tommy Edwards and all the hard work he did? Do you find this whole thing highly amusing? I will never listen to a Clear Channel station, not that it means anything to Clear Channel as they have determined I am a worthless demographic.

 

[davideduardo]

I will never listen to a Clear Channel station, not that it means anything to Clear Channel as they have determined I am a worthless demographic.

Clear Channel has not "determined" that. Advertisers do not place commercials on stations that appeal to older age groups, principally the over 55 crowd, because most do not want to spend money sending their message to that group. Clear Channel is simply a business, and their job is to provide listener groups that tune in the station in age groups advertisers like.

 

[briancraig]

"Clear Channel is simply a business, and their job is to provide listener groups that tune in the station in age groups advertisers like."


In one sentence, you just summed up what is wrong with commercial radio in 2006.

Radio stations by law are required "to serve in the public interest." The deregulation of 1996 that allows the Clear Channels of the world to own so many stations really has harmed the country. I'm usually very "let the markeplace decide" in my beliefs.

Wasn't it some bigwig at Clear Channel that said all radio was to them was a "spot delivery system."

 

[smashedcd]

I will never listen to a Clear Channel station, not that it means anything to Clear Channel as they have determined I am a worthless demographic.

Clear Channel has not "determined" that. Advertisers do not place commercials on stations that appeal to older age groups, principally the over 55 crowd, because most do not want to spend money sending their message to that group. Clear Channel is simply a business, and their job is to provide listener groups that tune in the station in age groups advertisers like.

as i have said before..remember this band..the x band ..XM. the 50s on 5 is a real oldies station playing music from 1954 to 1963. and the 60s on 6 is primarily a post british invasion station. 1964-1969. and of course theres sirius ;D

 

[davideduardo]

"Clear Channel is simply a business, and their job is to provide listener groups that tune in the station in age groups advertisers like."


In one sentence, you just summed up what is wrong with commercial radio in 2006.

Radio stations by law are required "to serve in the public interest." The deregulation of 1996 that allows the Clear Channels of the world to own so many stations really has harmed the country. I'm usually very "let the markeplace decide" in my beliefs.

Wasn't it some bigwig at Clear Channel that said all radio was to them was a "spot delivery system."

Radio _is_ a spot delivery system. It has always been a commercial medium since Westinghouse and the other early companies used radio to sell radios, newspapers, insurance, department store goods and such. Radio is only able to serve if there is money coming in... enough to provide the necessary services.

We all know what service we are able to give the listeners (who are, in fact, "the community."). In some cases, relaxing music is a service. In others, news is. In others, a funny show is. When I think back to the time when the FCC dictated what people "wanted" and "needed" I shudder. Consolidation occured because over half of US stations were not making money... in other words, totally unable to serve anyone except the bank they owed the bucks to.

In fact, it was the founders of Cleasr Channel who bought a horrible, money-bleeding AM station in 1975 and made WOAI into a viable, powerful voice. They went on to do the same at KTOK, and bought AMs when most were selling, and added better programming, much more news and were the leaders in creating the model for post-Fairness AM news and talk.

In my 43 years of working with or owning multi-station local clusters, I find that the economies of scale and the synergies always have permitted formats and programming that a single station owner could not always provide.

Stations have always been a business. Otherwise, they could not provide programming to listeners.

 

[cyberdad]

Radio stations by law are required "to serve in the public interest." 

Then there's Canada....which emphaises that point by getting proactive with format selection when licenses are granted.  

Case in point....CHWO, Toronto. 50KW non-dir blowtorch on 740am formerly operated by the CBC until the CBC decided to abandon the freq to FM. This left a powerful facility up for grabs.  CRTC (Canada's FCC) let it be known that it wanted the vacant licence to go to a broadcaster who'd focus on an underserved segment of the community.  Result: Big stack of applicants.  All the usual minorities and interest groups.  Winning applicant, CHWO, which had been operating as a somewhat underpowered suburban am standards/oldies station.  The CRTC had determined that 50+ demo was the biggest underserved demo in town.

Moving to the monster signal didn't result in quite the windfall CHWO's owners had anticipated, but its a definite upgrade from what they had before, and they seem to be pulling in fairly respectable numbers (beating some of the am talkers, if memory serves). And.... judging by how they sound...."making a decent living".  

A win-win was created....for a broadcaster as well as the listening public.   I'm not suggesting that the FCC or any other government agency should start going this route here. But if conglomerates like CC, CBS, etc. don't take their stewardship of the public's airwaves seriously and serve all of their communities of licence as multi-facility broadcasters, then the door may open for someone to force  responsibility onto them.  It could well come to pass that if the mega-corporations won't act in the public interest, "big brother" may decide replace a few of their outlets with operators who will.

 

[briancraig]

Of course radio has always been a commercial medium in the U.S. In general, this has served the nation well.

The problem is when license holders think of the stations as nothing more than "spot delivery systems."

There has got to be some sort of middle ground between excessive government regulation and someone who thinks that the public airwaves is the same thing as a roadside billboard.

I would also agree that many stations are better programmed by bigger corporations than by the old mom and pop owners.

But this is not always true. For example, If Saul Levine sold KKGO, would Standards still be on the air in L.A?

When you think of the truly great radio stations over the years, (like KMOX, WCCO, WGN, WSB, KDKA, WSM, WLW etc.) what comes to mind is the way they have always served their markets not how well they delivered value to their advertisers. I'm also sure that all of those stations have been profitable since the 1920s.

We found out just how valuable radio still is when during Katrina, WWL was the lifeline for most of the Gulf Coast. Entercom should be praised that the station performed so well during the crisis.

 

[Anyacat]

I will never listen to a Clear Channel station, not that it means anything to Clear Channel as they have determined I am a worthless demographic.

Clear Channel has not "determined" that. Advertisers do not place commercials on stations that appeal to older age groups, principally the over 55 crowd, because most do not want to spend money sending their message to that group. Clear Channel is simply a business, and their job is to provide listener groups that tune in the station in age groups advertisers like.

Business as usual does not have to include me. If radio is solely driven by advertisers, than there really is no hope for any of us. However, David, you do sound as if you are well educated on the subject, so I will assume that your information is accurate. I was under the mistaken impression that radio was there to inform, enlighten and even entertain (and as another posted noted, to serve the public good). Certainly, it is a place to sell things (and that would include records, when such things existed). So, I stand corrected. But that doesn't mean that I will ever knowingly put a dime in the Clear Channel pocket. I honestly believe that corporations such as Clear Channel, and Clear Channel itself, is what's wrong with radio. But, David, you are the expert and you probably disagree.

 

[StLouisIX]

Those who like oldies have 94.7.

I know WRLL has the best variety of any oldies station I have heard. But 94.7 is not that bad, honestly. I get tired of hearing Shannon 24/7.

Either he doesn't sleep or the voice tracker stays awake for him. I think we know the answer to that.

I really wish they could get WLS FM as their call. I mean it's almost a no-brainer.

 

[Anyacat]

Those who like oldies have 94.7.

I know WRLL has the best variety of any oldies station I have heard. But 94.7 is not that bad, honestly. I get tired of hearing Shannon 24/7.

Either he doesn't sleep or the voice tracker stays awake for him. I think we know the answer to that.

I really wish they could get WLS FM as their call. I mean it's almost a no-brainer.

The music is shallow and there is nothing there that makes me laugh. I mean, they have ripped off the RealOldies formula, complete with "hops" at the Willowbrook Ballroom, but without style or substance. They don't seem to want Tommy and Larry, but there do seem to what some RealOldies aspects. I swear, I expect to hear that they have begun doing Animal Stories...so, no, this is not viable for me (on the music alone).

 

[davideduardo]

Business as usual does not have to include me. If radio is solely driven by advertisers, than there really is no hope for any of us. However, David, you do sound as if you are well educated on the subject, so I will assume that your information is accurate. I was under the mistaken impression that radio was there to inform, enlighten and even entertain (and as another posted noted, to serve the public good). Certainly, it is a place to sell things (and that would include records, when such things existed). So, I stand corrected. But that doesn't mean that I will ever knowingly put a dime in the Clear Channel pocket. I honestly believe that corporations such as Clear Channel, and Clear Channel itself, is what's wrong with radio. But, David, you are the expert and you probably disagree.

Of course radio is driven by advertisers, as it has been for 80 years. If there is no revenue in "serving" a particular group of listeners, there is no way a station can serve it as it would go broke. Programming is only sustainable if there is competent management and advertiser support.

 

[b344077]

I don't think things have changed that much since the days I was toiling away in the industry in OKC, Dallas and Washington, DC (plus other markets).

Broadcasting has always been a business, including non-commercial stations; even religious stations (actually they can be the most brutal-like cash and carry only stations.)

Although I don't like what's happening to radio, I understand why it is ocurring with the availability of the multiple resources for programming coupled with de-regulation.

I do find it ironic that advertisers are so tied to research and with it avoid the 55+ segment. This is the one segment that still has plenty of cash to spend but are very discriminating purchasers.

Advertisers know it's easier to motivate younger listeners who have not yet been "educated". It reminds me of the movie "Christmas Story" where the young boy purchases Ovaltine for the decoder ring only to find it all to be an advertising gimmick. That boy is now on his way to become more discriminating in how advertising will motivate him till the day he is sophisticated enough and advertisiers no longer want to sell to his group.

It's like the perfect market segment is stupid/highly motivated/unsophisticated college graduates under 30 with lots of money. Oh yes, holding credit cards with high caps given to them while in college.

I have an elderly uncle who lives in Mission, Texas and all of his life he's used radio as his source for information. Now his choices are spanish, country, rock/country hybrid and conservative talk(much of it latch key operations). He's been a life long liberal but finds little to hear other than a very bad NPR station. Say what you want about the Fairness Doctrine but in the smaller markets, all they have now is Bill O'Reilly, "The Rush Hour", etc.

I've hooked him up with XM and so ends his dependence on the very tool he grew up with and depended up all of his life. By the way, he's worth big bucks and is still willing to spend it. It's just that he's over 55!

 

[ChrisBase]

I think we'll have to take a "wait and see" approach. WVON 1690 has the possiblity to seriously compete with a WGN, WLS, etc. With all the issues that are going on around us daily, it's nice to know that there is another talk outlet to provide another point of view.

 

[Ultimajock]

I'm not suggesting that the FCC or any other government agency should start going this route here.

...I should hope not -- the average member of the Federal Communications Corruption owes I.Q. points when compared to who gets a seat on the CRTC...

 

[Ultimajock]

Of course radio has always been a commercial medium in the U.S.

...not always. The station in the U.S. that has operated continually for the longest time is WHA, the flagship for Wisconsin Public Radio in Madison. Its operation as 9XM long pre-dates that of 8XK, the experimental outfit that became KDKA...

 

[oldradiosRcool]

I think we'll have to take a "wait and see" approach. WVON 1690 has the possiblity to seriously compete with a WGN, WLS, etc. With all the issues that are going on around us daily, it's nice to know that there is another talk outlet to provide another point of view.

Such as what?

 

[oldradiosRcool]

Hi,
Well the oldies were nice while they lasted.
Oh Well.
And what type of talk does WVON do?

The type of talk show that WVON produces are: Revolting, Discriminating, Racism saying bad things and puttng down people who are Caucasian and against American Indian heritage people like myself. They take pride of themselves and they think that they're way much better than anyone on this whole planet!!!...

I wouldn't worry about this new radio station. All things considered, do you think their clientel have the money to pay for advertising? I give it less than a year.

 

[Anyacat]

Hi,
Well the oldies were nice while they lasted.
Oh Well.
And what type of talk does WVON do?

The type of talk show that WVON produces are: Revolting, Discriminating, Racism saying bad things and puttng down people who are Caucasian and against American Indian heritage people like myself. They take pride of themselves and they think that they're way much better than anyone on this whole planet!!!...

I wouldn't worry about this new radio station. All things considered, do you think their clientel have the money to pay for advertising? I give it less than a year.

I think you will find that in this instance anyway, it will be difficult to kill this golden goose. Clear Channel's Earl Jones was rewarded with a promotion for doing the deal and was recently feted by the Black Caucus in Washington DC. It was as if Jones made a gift of 1690 to WVON. It won't matter how much revenue WVON pulls in as long as it makes its payments to Clear Channel. And who knows, maybe Jones gave them a sweet deal for the buy-out at the end of the lease. Although, I will be interested to see whether Clear Channel exerts some influence over content, although it said it wouldn't and whether at the end of 5 years, WVON finds that it is owned or co-owned by Clear Channel.

 

[uncamark]

What you all seem to forget:

In the last book, despite not being on the air for nine hours a day and not enjoying the greatest signal in the world, WVON had *triple* the ratings of WRLL in total households. Even if their demos aren't much better, the fact that 'VON has a much bigger audience than WRLL says much about the move.

And the WVON audience is not the WGCI or Power 92 audience--it is much better educated and higher income. It is *not* gangbangers or B boys.

Real Oldies was already a lost cause that only could be saved by the continued absence of an FM oldies station after WJMK went Jack. WZZN pretty much put the nail in the coffin.

It's time to go on to satellite and the Internet if you want pre-Beatles oldies.

 

[smashedcd]

What you all seem to forget:

In the last book, despite not being on the air for nine hours a day and not enjoying the greatest signal in the world, WVON had *triple* the ratings of WRLL in total households. Even if their demos aren't much better, the fact that 'VON has a much bigger audience than WRLL says much about the move.

And the WVON audience is not the WGCI or Power 92 audience--it is much better educated and higher income. It is *not* gangbangers or B boys.

Real Oldies was already a lost cause that only could be saved by the continued absence of an FM oldies station after WJMK went Jack. WZZN pretty much put the nail in the coffin.

It's time to go on to satellite and the Internet if you want pre-Beatles oldies.

they are still online...


www.realoldies1690.com