Maybe this is a David Eduardo question. With the shorter waveband length can someone explain how a 10KW station on 1700, who's fringe signal ends at Jupiter, can be recievied consistently in Orlando before dusk much stronger than any of the 50Kw's such as 940, 850, and 710 who's fringe signals on radio locator touch the southern part of the Orlando metro. Also, much stronger than 560 or 610 on their lower frequencies.
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
1700 FROM MIAMI
- Thread starter tanner
- Start date
Not to step on Mr. Eduardo's territory, but my explanation is 1700 and stations at the upper end of the dial are more amenable to skywave, which is why these x-banders go as far as they do. During the late afternoons/evenings here in Houston, we get the 1700s from both Brownsville and Sherman long before WBAP, KRLD, WOAI, etc. get in here.
schmave said:
Good answer. Those X-Banders behave like shortwave, and they are on relatively unpopulated channels.
The phenomenon described in the first post is also the reason some stations have post-sunrise and pre-sunset powers that are lower than those in the "purer" daylight hours. If you imagine a reception point 1000 miles to the west of a station, the atmosphere at the single-skip point 500 miles to the west of the station may become significantly ionized an hour or so before sunset in the more western location. So the Orlanddo "dusk" reception is a combination of being NW of Miami and the channel being so clear.
Before the US authorized X-Band usage, Argentina had a number of stations from 1610 up, a number of which were heard in the US. I've seent he facilities of several of those stations, and they have very small towers, some are on rooftops even... yet they get out like true shortwave!
Both Schmave and DavidEduardo have nailed it, but there's one other thing that was omitted. When the AM band opens up for skywave, it's always at the top of the band, and most DXers will tell you that 1520 is the frequency to test first. As it's the first one to show any signs of skywave propagation. Somewhere between 1650 and 1680, the band starts taking on a shortwave effect. Here in Ottawa where I am, we've seen the recent addition of CJL0 1690 AM in Montreal. It's an hour and a half away from here. All day the stations strength varies, sometimes fading completely for a few seconds, other times VERY strong. So it continually fluctuates, but the fluctuation is slow. CJLO only runs 1000 watts. Compare that with CJRS 1650 Montreal, also 1000 watts, the signal here in Ottawa during the day is steady until the critical hours.
When then WCMQ 1700 first signed on, was the first x-bander that came in in Southeast Iowa at night before KBGG in Des Moines signed on. They were a nice little station at the time.
When then WCMQ 1700 first signed on, was the first x-bander that came in in Southeast Iowa at night before KBGG in Des Moines signed on. They were a nice little station at the time.
mimo said:
I've never heard the 1520 thing, and I have been an AM DXer for 50 years. In general, you find that openings may cover the high, high end of the AM dial, or sometimes move further down.
When in Puerto Rico, if I heard Libya on 1251 around 2 PM (sunset in PR is close to 6PM all year) on my car radio, I knew I might have some good DX later. When living in AZ, Kota Kinabalu was my sign of good Trans Pacific DX, on 1475.
In Cleveland, in the early 60's, Zagreb on 1133 was my indicator of good central and eastern European openings.
When in Ecuador, if I could get WGBS 710 in the evening in the car, there would be a good north-south path later in the night when most of my locals had signed off at midnight.
I have my take about the "1520 theory." Growing up near Hartford CT my favorites on AM were WPOP-1410 (we pi$$ on people), WDRC-1360 (we don't really care) and the out of markets like WABC and WKBW-1520. I would always check KB 1st right after school since my radio was probably on that freq from the nite before. When KB came in really well , I knew there would be some other more distant stations later on so it was either listen to the music or DX. Unfortunately I listened to the music at least 80-90% of the time so I wasn't a hard core DX er like several friends.
But 1520 was my indicator on whether the band would be quiet or noisy that evening.
But back to the post at hand. From SW Fla i've logged a number of X banders sitting in the parking lot at Englewood Beach from TX, VA, GA, NC and one whose calls I don't remember but numerous references to NE Oklahoma or NW Arkansas. Those X banders REALLY get out just before sunset, part in late fall-early winter.
I don't know how much of that was early skywave and how much was salt water path across the Gulf.
But 1520 was my indicator on whether the band would be quiet or noisy that evening.
But back to the post at hand. From SW Fla i've logged a number of X banders sitting in the parking lot at Englewood Beach from TX, VA, GA, NC and one whose calls I don't remember but numerous references to NE Oklahoma or NW Arkansas. Those X banders REALLY get out just before sunset, part in late fall-early winter.
I don't know how much of that was early skywave and how much was salt water path across the Gulf.
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
About the 1520 thing - we used to check it every afternoon because it would be the first of the skywave stations to come in, and the last out. It is the same with KSTP, WLAC and WCKY. When KOKC lost their primary transmitter a few weeks back, it was even more dramatically like shortwave. Often times, during the middle of the day, you get nighttime like fade in or out on one of these stations if you are within a couple of hundred miles.
As far as X-banders, I used to have a preset on my car for the Chicago 1690 (I live in the Dallas area). It was there when I went to work, it was there when I came home from work. Signal was very strong most of the time. Now KLIF 1700 illegally runs IBOC and jams 1690 (ALL X-banders are supposed to be C-Quam). But I don't care because the Chicago station changed from oldies to talk.
The little group of Radio Disney fanatics I knew in Lubbock, TX, would listen to 620 from Dallas during the day, and / or the 1690 from Denver, which often times boomed in as strong as a local all day during some winter days.
As far as X-banders, I used to have a preset on my car for the Chicago 1690 (I live in the Dallas area). It was there when I went to work, it was there when I came home from work. Signal was very strong most of the time. Now KLIF 1700 illegally runs IBOC and jams 1690 (ALL X-banders are supposed to be C-Quam). But I don't care because the Chicago station changed from oldies to talk.
The little group of Radio Disney fanatics I knew in Lubbock, TX, would listen to 620 from Dallas during the day, and / or the 1690 from Denver, which often times boomed in as strong as a local all day during some winter days.
I know this is drifting way off topic, but did the FCC drop the X-band C-Quam requirement or just quietly decide to ignore it? Are stations applying for waivers when they get their license to cover? I can't think of a single X-band that uses stereo. I think several of them are experimenting with IBOC.
I believe 1690 near Chicago has run IBOC in the past, based on 1680 & 1700 being made worthless around sunrise/sunset in South Central Indiana.poledo said:
J
justplaythehits
Guest
The reference to 1520 might be confused with 1521. There is a 2000KW station in Saudi Arabia that is often heard in the US. It is sort of the 'beacon' for TA DX. Usually if you hear a het on 1521 the TA DX will will be good. Sometimes audio comes through especially in the eastern US and eastern Canada
Alan Furst
http://alanfurst.wordpress.com/
Alan Furst
http://alanfurst.wordpress.com/
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
trusty said:
1. Nope
2 Yes
R
rbrucecarter5
Guest
justplaythehits said:
Yes, I hear that regularly. I haven't had too much luck with TA lately, but when I lived in Houston I had much better luck.
It's like that with many expanded band stations. Even the 1660 in Charlotte, whose groundwave can barely be picked up in Rock Hill, let alone Charleston, like WBT, has a huge signal during the twilight hours all year, even during the summer, throughout the Carolinas.
During the winter, it sometimes comes in all day as far south as Charleston, with the added skywave effect.
1650 in Hampton Roads, another Radio Disney station, also booms in during the late afternoon hours, especially during the winter.
During the winter, it sometimes comes in all day as far south as Charleston, with the added skywave effect.
1650 in Hampton Roads, another Radio Disney station, also booms in during the late afternoon hours, especially during the winter.
- Status