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2008: IN WITH THE OLD

R

Runrigger

The latest census figures released today show that RI is losing people faster than any other state. We lost just over 3,800 people ending up with about 1.058 million residents. I'm sure some research weenie can twiddle with the numbers, but frankly who is moving away & who is moving in? Granted some retirees may relocate to better climates, but I'm willing to bet those moving out are younger people looking for areas that provide better opportunities. As far as moving in, I'd venture to guess they're coming in from other countries.

So is it time for some station to simply accept who lives here, who has always lived here, & program to who is available rather than to who you wish were available? Is it time for someone to just accept that there's a hole for a 60s & 70s oldie format presented the way radio presented itself during its heyday? At this point I would even go so far as to say some 50s music would fit in. Maybe some 80s music that fits with the rest of the music? Basically an AM radio gold format with energetic jocks who can "crush & roll", hit the posts, deliver the one-liners, & entertain.

I know the same research weenies who can twiddle with census numbers can claim even if such a station delivered good numbers, they wouldn't be numbers agencies would buy. What about local AEs? I don't buy completely the theory that no one under 55 would listen & especially don't buy theories from people who can't explain anything or program a station unless they can assign a number to everything. I'm sure there are 60s & 70s based oldie formats working somewhere & given what this state's population is like I can't see why someone with a programming sense can't make it work here.

It really is time someone went with a station that actually sounds good rather than one that simply fits because of what others in the cluster are programming. I think Hall Communications needs to buy one of the CC stations in the market & do it since WCTK is quickly becoming the only station on Oxford with a pulse.
 
i think a station exactly like pro fm was back in the very late 80's and early 90's would be perfect. musically thats what providence needs now..... im 29 now and thats the stuff i grew up with and im sure theres alot more in my age braket ........... i find there just to many stations playing the same crap...... lite 105, 93.3 its almost.... but a little to lite for my taste..... b101 comes close.... but now enough pop
 
If I recall, the median age of the market was about 37. That being said, why in God's name would any radio company in its right mind program a 60s and 70s oldies station???? I don't know many 37 year olds that want to hear "Because" by the Dave Clark Five. Just because Rhode Island lost 3,500 people in the last census doesn't mean the people left are close to retirement age.

And unfortunately Runrigger, you're absolutely right. That format will draw an audience that's 55 and up, and no agency will touch that demo. They'd rather have 1000 women 18-34 than 3000 persons 55+. As far as local AEs selling it, maybe to some extent, but if agencies aren't interested, direct numbers won't be great either.
 
Re: So riddle me this...

Holland Cooke said:
Which Providence stations are playing the new Eagles album?
Click to expand...

WCTK plays or played the single How Long (if you want to still call them singles). I don't know if HJY touched anything from the new album or if either AC station played How Long.

It isn't a matter of who wants to hear Because. The song is no more a tune out than Convoy, which I've heard played on B101 on the request lunch hour. It's a matter of rotation. Because is 1964, as is Satisfaction. I know the agencies are a problem everyone has to live with but still believe a lot of the theory behind what should be played & which stations agencies should buy are based on old wives' tales. I honestly believe people don't really go seeking what they really want to hear on the radio, but choose from what's available in the market. They don't leave stations in droves because there really aren't many other places for them to go. Too many stations make changes solely for the purpose of getting rid of the listeners they don't want.

I'm not saying any station in either the Clear Channel or Citadel clusters should do it & it would be too time consuming to start downloading PDF files from the census website to over analyze this, but in this state I do believe a format that incorporated the top 40 hits of what is now the classic hits format along with legitimate hits from the 60s & 70s that have fallen by the wayside would work if the right station did it & knew how to sell it. There are oldies stations playing both Hot Stuff by Donna Summer & Yes I'm Ready by Barbara Mason. It's no more far-fetched than hearing Before He Cheats in the same quarter hour as More Than A Feeling on Coast.

But then there are always those agencies & old wives' tales. Talk stations skew older. Stations like The Bridge can survive. We have 3 Latino stations going after ad dollars. In an age where younger demos scoff at radio & find their music elsewhere, WBRU is still around & selling spots even though they target the very group that supposedly doesn't know what a radio is.
 
I think I agree with some of what everyone is saying here. It's just a shame that no one is willing to take chances or actually stand back and listen to what they really sound like without quantifying everything. I do not believe a format like this would appeal only to 55 plus. I believe each cluster looks at the potential audience in toto and decides this group goes to this station, that group goes to that station, etc. Holland has said it before. Does Providence need a second AC station? No, or at least not in Coast's present form. Clear Channel needs the AC station. That doesn't mean Providence needs it. Disagree with the format idea if you must but call things like they are and let's not pretend programming or format decisions are based on what the audience wants. Agencies are calling the shots and letting the average quantifying media buyer dictate programming is like letting your 4 year old manage the household finances. Sad but true. If people keep leaving the state watch what happens to national buys as Providence dips down lower in market size.
 
Oh and as an afterthought I had to log back on to ask just why the hell Coast would play Carrie Underwood next to More Than A Feeling? It's a 31 year old AOR song. The only station that should play it back to back with a current is HJY. Cat Country wouldn't play Before He Cheats next to a 31 year old song. If Coast can play a 1976 classic rock song next to a current country crossover I think we can assume the 60s would work on a station that doesn't play currents. Of all the songs released in 1976 THIS is the one someone decided would work on an AC station? It's probably the only song from 1976 93.3 even plays. And with a straight face we're even disputing what really would work in this market? If nothing else at least we're really talking radio rather than snow that melted 3 days ago.
 
I think the fallacy here is that not enough people under 55 would listen.Where did B101's old audience go and where did they pull new listeners from?AM music radio really starting losing ground around 1980.If you were listening to top 40 radio around then you're probably in your 40s and top 40 radio in 1980 still played gold from the 60s and 70s.A format centering primarily on the 60s and 70s wouldn't be much different than today's classic hits format except that the harder rock album type cuts would be gone and the playlist wouldn't be so restrictive.I think the restrictive playlist for classic hits stations is key here.WODS in Boston made some of the same changes B101 did but still retained that fun sound,still plays more 60s,and doesn't play The Clash.You'll hear Love Will Keep Us Together along with some rockier stuff they never touched before.They are all 60s and 70s and they do well.B101 may have had to make some changes but let's face it.They went too far and they went lackluster.And now with certain stations in a certain building being on autopilot after mornings I have to wonder how many decisions made in the last five years were even good ones.Budget cuts don't just happen.They're caused.Change is needed but it will take a boutique station mentality to do it.I like the idea of an old line top 40 delivery too.I'd like EdMcMann to disappear from Providence like everyone else but let's face it he and Robby Bridges are really the only two real DJs in this market.
 
And we wonder why listening is down...

Holland Cooke said:
Which Providence stations are playing the new Eagles album?
Click to expand...

Runrigger said:
WCTK plays or played the single How Long (if you want to still call them singles). I don't know if HJY touched anything from the new album or if either AC station played How Long.
Click to expand...

As the guy who works on my boat would say, "There's your problem right there!"

Subjectively: This may be The Eagles' best work yet. I won't go as-far-as to say it's like when-the-Earth-stopped-turning-on-its-axis in the Summer of '67 when Sgt. Peppers came out. But Long Road Out of Eden is, instantly, one of my personal top ten.

Objectively: This release is more-than-just-an-album. Even more-than-just-a-comeback, for one of the most-prolific, most-successful acts in the musical life of the biggest generation of USA population.

Theirs was the longest piece on 60 Minutes about a month ago. We saw halting stories about these iconic performers, intense personalities who found solo success after their band broke up. The rare kind of window-INTO-a-story that is 60 Minutes' hallmark.

But 60 Minutes also told the trend story.
See what's NOT on The Eagles album?
No Asylum logo.
The Eagles released this masterpiece with NO RECORD LABEL.

You can either buy it directly from the band (www.eaglesband.com) or from Wal-Mart, which committed to 3 million copies out-of-the-box, and to selling 'em at Wal-Mart prices, in-exchange-for exclusive distribution.

See what just happened?
Another middleman -- the record label -- has been disintermediated.
Like stockbrokers, travel agents, insurance agents, bookstores, et al, record labels are obsoleted by the Internet.
By NOT-exploiting this special moment, radio too takes another step down that road.

All the labels ever really had was distribution.
Bands made their big money touring.
Cash-they-got-from-labels was really just an advance.
The real value they got from labels was PROMOTION.

Every Tuesday, when WPRO would see record guys, it was like Halloween.
They'd drive down from Boston and service the Providence stations.
These guys were REAL characters, whose income was all-about airplay.
So when something-as-momentous-as a new Eagles album or single was coming down, it was a big deal.
THAT'S when the-clout-of being-WPRO paid off.
We'd get first dibs on hot new on-air content, and YOU got the chance to call-in-and-win.

'Seems quaint now.

Who needs a record label...or a radio station...to connect, to reconnect, with The Eagles?
They played the soundtrack of years the biggest, most-wealthy segment of the population remembers wistfully.
The years we teared-up remembering when we saw the Rocky Point movie.

And now they're back.
And no Providence radio station is doing jumping jacks.

And we wonder why listening is down.

Holland Cooke
WPRO-AM Music Director, 1974-1980
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5c_KsSbOGkg
 
The kind of clout you're talking about is gone. The audience has downloaded new music before radio has a chance to hype it. By the way Holland, do you remember the story behind You Don't Bring Me Flowers by Streisand & Diamond? Radio created it. Each artist recorded it solo. Some jock edited the versions into a duet & Barbra & Neil took the cue & recorded it together. Things like that aren't going to happen anymore as radio isn't about to take the creative initiative.
 
RE ''The kind of clout you're talking about is gone."

As we say in [a thick] Rhode Island [accent]: "You got THAT right."
And radio gave it away.

Runrigger said:
Holland, do you remember the story behind You Don't Bring Me Flowers by Streisand & Diamond? Radio created it. Each artist recorded it solo. Some jock edited the versions into a duet & Barbra & Neil took the cue & recorded it together. Things like that aren't going to happen anymore as radio isn't about to take the creative initiative.
Click to expand...

True story.

David Martin was PD of WBZ, and spliced-it-together from separate versions...until Columbia Records served 'em a Cease-and-Desist, then quickly got Diamond and Streisand into the studio.
 
Labels have dictated for years but now stations have more internal powers to answer to too. I noticed The Bridge has an ad in today's Projo promoting the variety of music. Case in point: the first time I heard Christina Aguilera's Candy Man I thought "no way" for CHR. It'll get adds but it won't have legs. However, it's perfect for AC. But no one played it. Why? Did the label not want to cross it over? Did any local station simply decide it's the right kind of song for them regardless of the charts? Yes, The Bridge did. I think the bottom line is that is has to be a smaller station if risks are to be taken. It's just too bad more people don't discover the smaller stations.
 
RE "It's just too bad more people don't discover the smaller stations."

We did NOT rehearse this, right?
(Watch THIS segue.)

Stations like The Bridge WILL "come up," or SEEM TO, when they get the credit they deserve, but aren't getting now.
Because diary-based recall measurement favors lagging brand equity of "bigger" stations.
When Portable People Meters measure ACTUAL listening, roughly twice-as-many-stations show up.
At least that's what's happened so far in Philadelphia, Houston, and New York, where PPM is being toted-around.

For more, download my notes from Arbitron's Consultant Fly-In conference week-before-last:
http://hollandcooke.com/08January.pdf

HC
 
You add a lot to the board Holland. Doesn't matter who agrees or disagrees. At least it's radio talk and not disgruntled talk show junkies taking personal shots. Not much different than what goes on in the hallways. Everybody agrees or disagrees but nobody name calls.
 
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