Wow, the total number of "TV homes" in the US goes down by more than 1.3 million. Is this due to people no longer able to afford cable/sat and not knowing how to tune channels OTA? Or is it a statistical abberation, due to the results of the 2010 census? My home DMA, Charlotte dropped over 60,000 homes and 2 rankings, which I'm very skeptical of.
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2012 Nielsen DMA Rankings
- Thread starter fortmill
- Start date
I think Nielsen bases TV HH based from HH from county data from census figures. They can't be basing it off who subs to cable vs. satellite vs. OTA. Some people have both cable and satellite and could be double counted if so, and there is no easy way to figuring out who is on more than one provider, and who is receiving just OTA or no OTA.
I'm not sure though why there is a drop in TV HH. Even Dallas lost TV HH according to Nielsen.
I'm not sure though why there is a drop in TV HH. Even Dallas lost TV HH according to Nielsen.
Nielsen bases it's numbers on TV homes. The average home for the last season was just under 2.5 people per home.
One answer could be that more people are living together. Let's say getting a roommate or moving back with mom and dad.
That would decrease the number of homes even though the population goes up. There would still only be one home but instead of 2.5 average, there might be 2.75 average.
I'm not saying that IS the reason, but it's an example of how it might work.
One answer could be that more people are living together. Let's say getting a roommate or moving back with mom and dad.
That would decrease the number of homes even though the population goes up. There would still only be one home but instead of 2.5 average, there might be 2.75 average.
I'm not saying that IS the reason, but it's an example of how it might work.
http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/corporate/us/en/public%20factsheets/tv/nielsen-2012-local-DMA-TV-penetration.pdf
Save for Houston, all the top ten markets lost TV homes, though only Washington and Atlanta swapped ranking spots.
I'm surprised that my market, Raleigh-Durham is larger than Charlotte, though just barely. We've always been close, but Charlotte usually stays ahead.
Lots of ranking changes in markets 32-50.
New Orleans seems to have settled at 52 after lots of post-Katrina fluctuation.
El Paso (91) and Jackson, TN (176) are the biggest jumpers in rank, each gaining 6, while the Tri-Cities (Bristol,TN/VA-Kingsport, TN-Johnson City, TN) dropped 5 spots, from 91 to 96.
Save for Houston, all the top ten markets lost TV homes, though only Washington and Atlanta swapped ranking spots.
I'm surprised that my market, Raleigh-Durham is larger than Charlotte, though just barely. We've always been close, but Charlotte usually stays ahead.
Lots of ranking changes in markets 32-50.
New Orleans seems to have settled at 52 after lots of post-Katrina fluctuation.
El Paso (91) and Jackson, TN (176) are the biggest jumpers in rank, each gaining 6, while the Tri-Cities (Bristol,TN/VA-Kingsport, TN-Johnson City, TN) dropped 5 spots, from 91 to 96.
There is something strange about the rankings. The local homebuilders association says there were 15,000 homes and apartments built last year, the COG says the population increases by around 50,000, and local school districts have all reported enrollments way up in the Charlotte metro area this year, yet the number of TV homes decreases by over 60,000? I'm sure CofC types in Charlotte are quite upset to hear Raleigh has surpassed Charlotte in DMA size, and it is quite surprising, considering that the Raleigh-Durham metro size is still far smaller than Charlotte's. My quesion is: how does Neilsen define "TV homes/" Does a "TV home" have to recieve programing from cable, sat, or OTA? Or is any home that owns a TV, a "TV home?" Surely, as I said before, because of the terrible economy, many people have had to drop pay TV, and some of them don't know how to pick up OTA TV (sad but true).
DMA's and metro areas are usually defined very differently. DMA's are much more focused on tv station reach than strict metro area boundaries. This often accounts for the difference between "tv homes" and population size. For example, the Phoenix DMA stretches up to the Northern Arizona border, which extends well beyond the Phoenix metro area. If you want to see the boundaries, you can google "DMA maps".
Sorry for this long post, but I hope it'll clear things up a bit
Nielsen says the decline in household numbers is due to three things
1) Digital transition, many people who can't get signals simply went without. I am one of these people who lost all TV signals, despite living on 3 miles NW of Willis (Sears) Tower. In addition was the rebound effect. People bought digital TVs and coverters and this caused a "spike" in their numbers. This downward in numbers is the adjustment as people throw out their old TV and discontinue converters. Indeed on another board, one poster asked why he was sent a Nielsen survey when he got rid of his TV. Nielsen told him to leave it blanks and send it in.
2) Economy, people are losing TVs due to age and simply not replacing them. They are going without, watching at gyms, or simply having friends record TV shows and watching them on iPods or computers later on.
3) Torrents, there are three known sites which you can download shows within 15 minutes of their completion. And there are hundreds more where you can get the shows within a day
4) Multiple platforms. Nielsen says it plans to expand into measuring all ways people watch TV shows including torrents, iPods, and such but it hasn't. It admits it hasn't perfected measuring time-shifting measurements but plans to.
Nielsen says:
Under this defintion, despite having a TV and a computer with a TV tuner I would not be a household, because I can't tune any channels in my location. When I want to watch a show, I go to the gym or move to the library with my laptop.
Remember sharing also effects it. Last year Nielsen says a household has about 2.5 people. If more people move into a household due to the economy, through roommate shares or moving back with mom and dad it INCREASES the population but it doesn't increase the household. The household size just gets bigger.
For the confusion of Nielsen markets versus the census:
Nielsen defines its own markets. This is NIELSEN not the FCC and this confuses people. Nielsen controls the definition. However the FCC uses Nielsen markets (DMAs) for its purposes. Why? Because it's easier than making up their own definitions. Since Nielsen is really the only game in town, it makes sense in a way to use them. Nielsen is NOT a scientific survey. In their defense, they never once, claimed their numbers were scientific. This comes up a lot in arguments, but for all its shortcomings, Nielsen never said their polls were scientific.
Nielsen rankings differ because they rank them. Tampa is bigger than Miami, simply because it's geographically larger. But by ever definition of US Census, Miami is the bigger of the two.
For the census, the US Government defines 4 basic city groupings.
The first is a "Micropolitan Area" which is defined of a central city of 10,000 - 49,999 and surroundings. This is measured by
social and economic integration with the core as measured by commuting ties.
The Metropolitan Area, which is defined as a central city of at least 50,000 (or two or three cities together which add up to 50,000). This is measured also by social and economic integration with the core as measured by commuting ties. And it always includes at least ONE county, the county they city (cities are in). This can have odd results, especially out west where counties are large. The Reno Metro area includes Washoe County, which extends all the way up to the Idaho state line. Obviously the few people up by the Idaho state line aren't as urban as the people in Sparks, NV, next to Reno. But because the Metro area has to include a county in it's entirety, it is just how it is.
Then there is a thing called a Combined Statistical Areas. This is two or more adjacent Metro areas (or a Metro area and a Micropolitan Area) that are joined economically as measured by commuting ties
This produces conflicts as well. For instance, Kenosha Wisconsin, which has high commuter pattern into Illinois and Chicago. So Kenosha is its OWN metro area, but is also part of the Chicago, Combined Statistical Area, because of the commuting patterns.
Of course Kenosha gets Milwaukee TV, not Chicago TV. but because of the commuting and social integration of Kenosha into Illinois cities and Chicago is greater than that of Milwaukee for US Census purposes it's linked to Chicago.
The last type of US Census are is Urban Area. This is defined as a core city (or group of cities) with 50,000 people. Instead of counties they uses census tracks that are densely settled at least 2,500 people, at least 1,500 of which reside outside institutional group quarters.
The Urban area is sort of new and was developed to answer complaints of Eastern cities that are highly settled. Indeed according to the Urban area, parts of Houston, Phoenix and San Antonio, Jacksonville (and a lot of other cities, some East but most West and Southern) are actually rural not urban. So they are incorporated into a city but are rural in nature not urban.
This is what confuses people. Once you get below the big three. New York is always first, LA is always second and Chicago is always third. You start running into problems. Washington-Baltimore can be fourth by combining them. San Francisco and San Jose climb right up there. But by simple metro area definitions those examples are split and rank much lower.
Lists also confuse, because not all cities have equal components. For instance, Atlanta using a combined statistical area (CSA) is bigger than Miami, because Miami doesn't have a combine statistical area. It's hemmed in by the Everglades so it stands on it's own and doesn't appear on a list of CSAs.
By other rankings, Miami IS bigger than Atlanta.
So if this causes confusion, just remember with so many ways to define a city and it's surroundings, you can have completely different answer and all of them right, depending on which list and which definition you're using
Nielsen says the decline in household numbers is due to three things
1) Digital transition, many people who can't get signals simply went without. I am one of these people who lost all TV signals, despite living on 3 miles NW of Willis (Sears) Tower. In addition was the rebound effect. People bought digital TVs and coverters and this caused a "spike" in their numbers. This downward in numbers is the adjustment as people throw out their old TV and discontinue converters. Indeed on another board, one poster asked why he was sent a Nielsen survey when he got rid of his TV. Nielsen told him to leave it blanks and send it in.
2) Economy, people are losing TVs due to age and simply not replacing them. They are going without, watching at gyms, or simply having friends record TV shows and watching them on iPods or computers later on.
3) Torrents, there are three known sites which you can download shows within 15 minutes of their completion. And there are hundreds more where you can get the shows within a day
4) Multiple platforms. Nielsen says it plans to expand into measuring all ways people watch TV shows including torrents, iPods, and such but it hasn't. It admits it hasn't perfected measuring time-shifting measurements but plans to.
Nielsen says:
Under this defintion, despite having a TV and a computer with a TV tuner I would not be a household, because I can't tune any channels in my location. When I want to watch a show, I go to the gym or move to the library with my laptop.
Remember sharing also effects it. Last year Nielsen says a household has about 2.5 people. If more people move into a household due to the economy, through roommate shares or moving back with mom and dad it INCREASES the population but it doesn't increase the household. The household size just gets bigger.
For the confusion of Nielsen markets versus the census:
Nielsen defines its own markets. This is NIELSEN not the FCC and this confuses people. Nielsen controls the definition. However the FCC uses Nielsen markets (DMAs) for its purposes. Why? Because it's easier than making up their own definitions. Since Nielsen is really the only game in town, it makes sense in a way to use them. Nielsen is NOT a scientific survey. In their defense, they never once, claimed their numbers were scientific. This comes up a lot in arguments, but for all its shortcomings, Nielsen never said their polls were scientific.
Nielsen rankings differ because they rank them. Tampa is bigger than Miami, simply because it's geographically larger. But by ever definition of US Census, Miami is the bigger of the two.
For the census, the US Government defines 4 basic city groupings.
The first is a "Micropolitan Area" which is defined of a central city of 10,000 - 49,999 and surroundings. This is measured by
social and economic integration with the core as measured by commuting ties.
The Metropolitan Area, which is defined as a central city of at least 50,000 (or two or three cities together which add up to 50,000). This is measured also by social and economic integration with the core as measured by commuting ties. And it always includes at least ONE county, the county they city (cities are in). This can have odd results, especially out west where counties are large. The Reno Metro area includes Washoe County, which extends all the way up to the Idaho state line. Obviously the few people up by the Idaho state line aren't as urban as the people in Sparks, NV, next to Reno. But because the Metro area has to include a county in it's entirety, it is just how it is.
Then there is a thing called a Combined Statistical Areas. This is two or more adjacent Metro areas (or a Metro area and a Micropolitan Area) that are joined economically as measured by commuting ties
This produces conflicts as well. For instance, Kenosha Wisconsin, which has high commuter pattern into Illinois and Chicago. So Kenosha is its OWN metro area, but is also part of the Chicago, Combined Statistical Area, because of the commuting patterns.
Of course Kenosha gets Milwaukee TV, not Chicago TV. but because of the commuting and social integration of Kenosha into Illinois cities and Chicago is greater than that of Milwaukee for US Census purposes it's linked to Chicago.
The last type of US Census are is Urban Area. This is defined as a core city (or group of cities) with 50,000 people. Instead of counties they uses census tracks that are densely settled at least 2,500 people, at least 1,500 of which reside outside institutional group quarters.
The Urban area is sort of new and was developed to answer complaints of Eastern cities that are highly settled. Indeed according to the Urban area, parts of Houston, Phoenix and San Antonio, Jacksonville (and a lot of other cities, some East but most West and Southern) are actually rural not urban. So they are incorporated into a city but are rural in nature not urban.
This is what confuses people. Once you get below the big three. New York is always first, LA is always second and Chicago is always third. You start running into problems. Washington-Baltimore can be fourth by combining them. San Francisco and San Jose climb right up there. But by simple metro area definitions those examples are split and rank much lower.
Lists also confuse, because not all cities have equal components. For instance, Atlanta using a combined statistical area (CSA) is bigger than Miami, because Miami doesn't have a combine statistical area. It's hemmed in by the Everglades so it stands on it's own and doesn't appear on a list of CSAs.
By other rankings, Miami IS bigger than Atlanta.
So if this causes confusion, just remember with so many ways to define a city and it's surroundings, you can have completely different answer and all of them right, depending on which list and which definition you're using
You skipped the difference between MSA and CMSA, which is probably where some of the confusion on these boards lie.
For example, the Los Angeles MSA is defined as only Los Angeles and Orange Counties and is a combination of the Los Angeles/Long Beach/Glendale metro area and the Santa Ana/Anaheim/Irvine metro area. The Los Angeles CMSA (Combined Metropolitan Statistical Area), though, is the above Los Angeles MSA along with the Riverside/San Bernardino MSA and the Oxnard/Ventura/Thousand Oaks MSA. The addition of the two other MSAs adds nearly 6 million people to the CMSA- it doesn't change LA's rank as the #2 market, but there is a great difference between 12 and 18 million people.
Nielsen forgoes all of these official government definitions, though, as if you look at the Nielsen map of the Los Angeles market- it includes way more than the CMSA. While standardizing some of this would be nice, for the purposes of radio and television ratings and rankings v. government data, it really doesn't matter. Nielsen rankings are for TV stations to be able to sell their product to advertisers- and media buyers know all of this information.
For example, the Los Angeles MSA is defined as only Los Angeles and Orange Counties and is a combination of the Los Angeles/Long Beach/Glendale metro area and the Santa Ana/Anaheim/Irvine metro area. The Los Angeles CMSA (Combined Metropolitan Statistical Area), though, is the above Los Angeles MSA along with the Riverside/San Bernardino MSA and the Oxnard/Ventura/Thousand Oaks MSA. The addition of the two other MSAs adds nearly 6 million people to the CMSA- it doesn't change LA's rank as the #2 market, but there is a great difference between 12 and 18 million people.
Nielsen forgoes all of these official government definitions, though, as if you look at the Nielsen map of the Los Angeles market- it includes way more than the CMSA. While standardizing some of this would be nice, for the purposes of radio and television ratings and rankings v. government data, it really doesn't matter. Nielsen rankings are for TV stations to be able to sell their product to advertisers- and media buyers know all of this information.
I don't really agree with this. How did Savannah go up four spots in the market rankings all the way to 92 while Charleston didn't add any? Savannah must have added a county to the market.
I would very seriously doubt that Savannah, or any other market, added counties to their DMA. Since cable is more and more only carrying in market stations, and sat generally only carries in-market stations, it would be very difficult to justify changing a county from one market to another. And yes, Savannah jumping 4 markets lifted my eyebrows as well. Metro Savannah and the nearby Hilton Head metro both grew moderately during the past ten years---meanwhile all of the remaining DMA counties lost population! Meanwhile, in the Charleston DMA, only Williamsburg County lost population, while the Charleston metro grew at a faster rate than the Savannah (and Charleston is already a MUCH larger metro than Savannah).charlestondxman said:
Raleigh's DMA includes Fayetteville and some outlying areas. Cleveland includes Akron and Canton, Tampa includes Sarasota, Philly includes Allentown. All these additions bump the primary city profile.
On the other hand, Miami-Ft.Lauderdale is significantly smaller in DMA size than actual metro size, as Palm Beach county is separated with its own West Palm Beach DMA.
Less noticeable because NYC is #1 either way: but New Haven is also part of NYC metro,, but in Nielsen DMA, it's part of Hartford-New Haven market.
On the other hand, Miami-Ft.Lauderdale is significantly smaller in DMA size than actual metro size, as Palm Beach county is separated with its own West Palm Beach DMA.
Less noticeable because NYC is #1 either way: but New Haven is also part of NYC metro,, but in Nielsen DMA, it's part of Hartford-New Haven market.
Mark said:
Silly question--but what about apartment buildings? Is each apartment unit counted as a "TV home?"
There is a much larger thing going on that many people are discounting. Not that I have jumped on this bandwagon myself, but I know a few people who have completely cut the cable and ditched the TV for online viewing. With the line between computer and TV blurring every day, and the monitors getting bigger and bigger, I could see this being a big force in the future. These people all consume tv-like content (Hulu, Netflix, and yes, Torrents), but don't have to mess with antennas (especially a problem in apartment buildings, where it is often a violation to have an antenna), and don't have to pay the constant increases of cable TV (more than doubling in the last 15 years).
It's a perfect storm too, because the digital conversion happened, then the economy almost immediately went into a tailspin. So, you have people who "didn't make the switch" combined with people forced to cut the cord.
It's a perfect storm too, because the digital conversion happened, then the economy almost immediately went into a tailspin. So, you have people who "didn't make the switch" combined with people forced to cut the cord.
justpassingthough said:
You're correct, I left them out because the census is phasing out CMSA in favour of CSA and Urban area defintions, which I covered, though for this last census, they technically do exist.
charlestondxman said:
Possible, since Nielsen defines the markets, it is free to shift counties as it sees fit. In fact there's one county in New York state, between Buffalo and Rochester, that has been switched between the two markets several times.
Nielsen does NOT make maps of it's DMAs public. You can buy one. Last I checked it was like $50.00, probably more now. Nielsen is extremely protective of it's maps so if you bought one, and put it on a website, Nielsen would require you pull it. Though some people have gotten around this by creating their own maps based on Nieslen's. I imagine this information would be available to anyone who subscribes to Nielsen such as a TV station.
Tim from Springfield said:
Yes, Nielsen uses lots of different types of housing, even college dorms are counted. Nielsen has noted that it's system isn't perfect and says it is constantly updating it's processes for locating new "household" definitions.
Looks like the Quad Cities Area (western Illinois and eastern Iowa) went down a notch. Now we're the 100th market, overtaken by Greenville, NC. How many DMAs ranked 100 or lower besides the QC don't have CW Plus? And if we continue to drop into the next year, will CW Plus be in our future?
JayR said:The Fort Myers/Naples market jumped three spots from 65 to 62? How is this even possible?
Basically Ft/Meyers went UP 499-504
Dayton, Lexington and Charleston all LOST households. This is why they were ahead of Ft Myers now they are below it.
Southwest Florida is still growing a lot, not as fast as it did, but it's up there. Lehigh Acres went from from 33,430 people to 86,784 alone. Cape Coral added 50,000,
Mark said:
Nielsen was also very protective of the ranking numbers -- back in 2008, Wikipedia was forced to remove the templates of the US television markets, as they included ranking numbers, which was considered by Nielsen to be proprietary information. Eventually, the templates were reinstated, covering geographic areas that resemble Nielsen market areas, without mentioning the market numbers or even "Nielsen" -- and those passed muster.
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