2012 Nielsen DMA Rankings

[KeithE4]

WOW! Now that's an insult to add to injury, indeed! Chicago KNOWS that those NW Indiana counties are apart of their urbanized area, so why would just ignore them although. It's bad enough if they do it to them also other metro counties as well. It's kind of sad how in the nation's #3 largest TV market stations have yet to figure out how to functionally operate and use news bureaus in their vast urbanized area, let alone DMA.

NW Indiana is about 10% of the Chicago TV market in population. It's also (with some exceptions) poor-to-working-class, with some rural areas. It's even less relevant to Chicago than northern New Jersey is to NYC.

Unless things have changed since I lived there, you don't get much news about Will, McHenry, Kane, or Kendall Counties in Illinois either, other than severe weather or traffic problems. Why? My guess is because the viewers with money are in Cook, DuPage, and southeastern Lake (IL) Counties. They don't care about what Mayor Daley (the first one) decades ago called "the country towns."

 

[Markxxx]

Interestingly enough, WLS, WGN and WMAQ are good about covering stories in Kenosha. OK they have to be major stories, but they do cover them and Kenosha, while in the Chicago Combined Statistical Area, it is in the Milwaukee DMA.

NW Indiana has declined so much. In fact Hammond is now the largest city in the area, just squeaking past Gary in population. The glory days of Gary, with population, economic growth and jobs, ended 40 years ago and that really hurts the news coverage of the area.

 

[dave73]

Interestingly enough, WLS, WGN and WMAQ are good about covering stories in Kenosha. OK they have to be major stories, but they do cover them and Kenosha, while in the Chicago Combined Statistical Area, it is in the Milwaukee DMA.

NW Indiana has declined so much. In fact Hammond is now the largest city in the area, just squeaking past Gary in population. The glory days of Gary, with population, economic growth and jobs, ended 40 years ago and that really hurts the news coverage of the area.

For someone who still lives in Gary (not by choice), I know very well about Gary's economic downfall. Hammond is slowly being revitalized, while Gary isn't even trying to fix their problems. Even neighboring town Merrillville is slowly showing economic decline, along with Griffith.

Yes, I feel for people who live in NW Indiana. There is never any news coverage on Chicago stations of any state news from Indiana. Frankly, most of the news seems to come from Cook County anyway. Where I live, in Lake County, is generally ignored aside from weather as well. However, at least we do get in-state political coverage. I don't think I've ever seen one Chicago station cover a story about Indiana's governor, senators, state budget, tax policies or anything else like that.

Those of you who live in Lake County, IN and who can't get South Bend affiliates are screwed as far as news is concerned.

Lake County Indiana gets completely ignored of Indiana government races, except for when WYIN decides to carry them. Other than WYIN, NW Indiana residents don't find out about anything until they pick up the newspaper, or find it online. Porter & LaPorte Counties of Indiana who have OTA TV can get South Bend stations, & can get some of that info. Lake County Indiana residents don't even get to see the Hoosier Lottery drawings. WGBO used to carry those drawings prior to 1995 when it was an English language independent station. They did it because they were desperate to carry anything that would bring them money, since WPWR-TV took the best programming, leaving WGBO with the scraps. The only reason NW Indiana residents can see Powerball drawings is because the Illinois Lottery joined Powerball, or we would not see that at all (Northern Lake & McHenry County people who can pickup Milwaukee stations can see Powerball on one of their stations). I will say that since TV went digital, I have a better chance at locking in the signal of some South Bend stations, that I plan to get a deep fringe UHF only antenna for South Bend stations. WNDU & WSBT used to be the easiest stations to get in the analog days. Now, WSBT is still the easiest, because they returned to 22, but I find WNDU the most difficult, due to staying on channel 42, since returning to 16 would have required them to go directional to protect WYIN, who broadcasts on channel 17, & South Bend & Cedar Lake (WYIN's transmission site) are about 60 miles apart (need at least 68 miles separation to prevent adjacent channel interference). WYIN is already directional toward South Bend that protected WNDU's now defunct analog signal (WYIN is also directional toward Lafayette, protecting the now defunct WLFI analog signal, when they were on 18, but is now VHF on 11)

 

[BRNout]

The only reason NW Indiana residents can see Powerball drawings is because the Illinois Lottery joined Powerball, or we would not see that at all (Northern Lake & McHenry County people who can pickup Milwaukee stations can see Powerball on one of their stations). I will say that since TV went digital, I have a better chance at locking in the signal of some South Bend stations, that I plan to get a deep fringe UHF only antenna for South Bend stations. WNDU & WSBT used to be the easiest stations to get in the analog days. Now, WSBT is still the easiest, because they returned to 22, but I find WNDU the most difficult, due to staying on channel 42, since returning to 16 would have required them to go directional to protect WYIN, who broadcasts on channel 17, & South Bend & Cedar Lake (WYIN's transmission site) are about 60 miles apart (need at least 68 miles separation to prevent adjacent channel interference). WYIN is already directional toward South Bend that protected WNDU's now defunct analog signal (WYIN is also directional toward Lafayette, protecting the now defunct WLFI analog signal, when they were on 18, but is now VHF on 11)[/color]

Your post exactly illustrates my point about certain counties being "stuck" in a DMA and with local channels that virtually ignore them. Aside from WYIN's bush-league newscast, people in NW IN have no information. Didn't realize that even Merrillville was suffering, so that can't help either.

With respect to reception: thanks to the digital conversion, you need to have an excellent antenna and/or be pretty close to the WI border now to pick up any TV from Milwaukee. Then again, Chicago signals aren't guaranteed anymore either!

Was just talking with some colleagues who were telling me that - at one time - channels 4 (WTMJ) and 6 (now FOX 6, former CBS) from Milwaukee were once offered on cable in northern Lake County. They were replaced with Chicago Telemundo and Univision affiliates. That was well before my time here. We still get WMVS-10 (PBS) on Comcast, but that's it. If you have U-Verse, you don't even get that. These guys were just grousing about how TV news in Chicago is only interested in Chicago and how Northbrook is a "far north suburb" to them! That's how the subject came up. So the disgruntlement is all around. I've always imagined that people in the New York market (but outside the city) had it even worse. Their local news is 75% focused on the city itself leaving little time for coverage of northern NJ, Long Island, Westchester/Rockland/Orange, or (God forbid) Fairfield County, CT.

Back to Indiana....I was under the impression that people in all but Lake County (i.e. Porter, LaPorte Counties) were offered South Bend affiliates on cable. So, Michigan City, Porter, Valpo, etc. do get those. Don't know about Newton County, but I'd hope that channel 18 from Lafayette would at least be available there. Folks in Gary, Hammond, etc are the ones who are totally left out. Doesn't seem right.......

 

[dave73]

The only reason NW Indiana residents can see Powerball drawings is because the Illinois Lottery joined Powerball, or we would not see that at all (Northern Lake & McHenry County people who can pickup Milwaukee stations can see Powerball on one of their stations). I will say that since TV went digital, I have a better chance at locking in the signal of some South Bend stations, that I plan to get a deep fringe UHF only antenna for South Bend stations. WNDU & WSBT used to be the easiest stations to get in the analog days. Now, WSBT is still the easiest, because they returned to 22, but I find WNDU the most difficult, due to staying on channel 42, since returning to 16 would have required them to go directional to protect WYIN, who broadcasts on channel 17, & South Bend & Cedar Lake (WYIN's transmission site) are about 60 miles apart (need at least 68 miles separation to prevent adjacent channel interference). WYIN is already directional toward South Bend that protected WNDU's now defunct analog signal (WYIN is also directional toward Lafayette, protecting the now defunct WLFI analog signal, when they were on 18, but is now VHF on 11)[/color]

Your post exactly illustrates my point about certain counties being "stuck" in a DMA and with local channels that virtually ignore them. Aside from WYIN's bush-league newscast, people in NW IN have no information. Didn't realize that even Merrillville was suffering, so that can't help either.

With respect to reception: thanks to the digital conversion, you need to have an excellent antenna and/or be pretty close to the WI border now to pick up any TV from Milwaukee. Then again, Chicago signals aren't guaranteed anymore either!

Was just talking with some colleagues who were telling me that - at one time - channels 4 (WTMJ) and 6 (now FOX 6, former CBS) from Milwaukee were once offered on cable in northern Lake County. They were replaced with Chicago Telemundo and Univision affiliates. That was well before my time here. We still get WMVS-10 (PBS) on Comcast, but that's it. If you have U-Verse, you don't even get that. These guys were just grousing about how TV news in Chicago is only interested in Chicago and how Northbrook is a "far north suburb" to them! That's how the subject came up. So the disgruntlement is all around. I've always imagined that people in the New York market (but outside the city) had it even worse. Their local news is 75% focused on the city itself leaving little time for coverage of northern NJ, Long Island, Westchester/Rockland/Orange, or (God forbid) Fairfield County, CT.

Back to Indiana....I was under the impression that people in all but Lake County (i.e. Porter, LaPorte Counties) were offered South Bend affiliates on cable. So, Michigan City, Porter, Valpo, etc. do get those. Don't know about Newton County, but I'd hope that channel 18 from Lafayette would at least be available there. Folks in Gary, Hammond, etc are the ones who are totally left out. Doesn't seem right.......

For Porter County Indiana, only WNDU & WSBT are offered on some cable systems (I do know Portage only gets these 2), due to significantly viewed status. It might be possible in Valparaiso, that all South Bend full power stations are available, but not sure. For Newton & Jasper Counties, I'm not sure if South Bend or Indianapolis stations are available on cable. It's possible WLFI is (especially now that their VHF signal goes as far north as Morocco & Demotte & as far south as Indianapolis).

For New York, I've read on other message boards that people complain about New York news. We thought Chicago was bad. I read on other boards that the New York stations don't even cover the entire city with their news.

Back to the Chicago market, I notice for any suburbs that get covered by the news would be: Cicero, Oak Park, Calumet City, Summit, Evanston, & Schaumburg (I don't see the fascination with this suburbs, but I hear a lot about Schaumburg, & I've been there). I don't hear much about Wheeling or Northbrook either (used to work in Wheeling). It really has to be something that the media considers news that they'll report on it. Otherwise, we have to rely on our local newspapers for our news.

 

[Sammi Brie]

Phoenix is a bit like that when it comes to most news items outside of the Phoenix area and Pinal County. There once was KNAZ, a KPNX semi-satellite with local news, but they gave up in 2008 on the idea. Flagstaff usually only gets coverage for weather...you could argue the same with most other areas of the state outside of the four counties that border México (those are in one of two different DMAs).

 

[formeraa]

Phoenix is a bit like that when it comes to most news items outside of the Phoenix area and Pinal County. There once was KNAZ, a KPNX semi-satellite with local news, but they gave up in 2008 on the idea. Flagstaff usually only gets coverage for weather...you could argue the same with most other areas of the state outside of the four counties that border México (those are in one of two different DMAs).

Definitely agree here! It's too bad that at least one of the Phoenix station doesn't have some sort of network of newspapers/radio stations/part-time reporters throughout the Northern part of the state.

 

[arnoldevns]

Wow, the total number of "TV homes" in the US goes down by more than 1.3 million. Is this due to people no longer able to afford cable/sat and not knowing how to tune channels OTA? Or is it a statistical abberation, due to the results of the 2010 census? My home DMA, Charlotte dropped over 60,000 homes and 2 rankings, which I'm very skeptical of.

The number of TV homes did not go down. I am surprised that Nielsen hasn't explained this better, so here goes.
The Census does an actual count of every American every ten years. Every year in between the Census does an estimate of the population for each municipality. Nielsen uses Census data (both the actual census and the estimates) to come up with their yearly numbers for each DMA. By the time you get near the next census some of these yearly estimates are off by quite a bit. Once the data came in for the actual 2010 census, those errors became quite obvioius. (someone mentioned Dallas earlier.. the 2009 estimate for the city's population was off by well over 100,000 people compared to the 2010 actual census) The new DMA numbers just reflect the data from the actual census and show just how far off the mark the census bureau was for some of the 2009 estimates.

Personally, I prefer the markets defined by the very nice rabbitears.info website. They created something called the READS rankings to avoid any possible litigation from Nielsen over using their DMA data. READS is based on population, not households. It breaks down some markets that Nielsen refuses to. (there's a separate market for Bryan-College Station, Texas whereas that market is lumped into Waco-Temple-Killeen in Nielsen even though they are 100 miles away from each other) I would encourage you to check it out.

 

[fortmill]

Wow, the total number of "TV homes" in the US goes down by more than 1.3 million. Is this due to people no longer able to afford cable/sat and not knowing how to tune channels OTA? Or is it a statistical abberation, due to the results of the 2010 census? My home DMA, Charlotte dropped over 60,000 homes and 2 rankings, which I'm very skeptical of.

The number of TV homes did not go down. I am surprised that Nielsen hasn't explained this better, so here goes.
The Census does an actual count of every American every ten years. Every year in between the Census does an estimate of the population for each municipality. Nielsen uses Census data (both the actual census and the estimates) to come up with their yearly numbers for each DMA. By the time you get near the next census some of these yearly estimates are off by quite a bit. Once the data came in for the actual 2010 census, those errors became quite obvioius. (someone mentioned Dallas earlier.. the 2009 estimate for the city's population was off by well over 100,000 people compared to the 2010 actual census) The new DMA numbers just reflect the data from the actual census and show just how far off the mark the census bureau was for some of the 2009 estimates.

Personally, I prefer the markets defined by the very nice rabbitears.info website. They created something called the READS rankings to avoid any possible litigation from Nielsen over using their DMA data. READS is based on population, not households. It breaks down some markets that Nielsen refuses to. (there's a separate market for Bryan-College Station, Texas whereas that market is lumped into Waco-Temple-Killeen in Nielsen even though they are 100 miles away from each other) I would encourage you to check it out.

tested, I had considered that scenario for the the Charlotte DMA, but if my memory is correct, almost every county in this area surpassed the census estimates. The actual city of Charlotte came in at 720,000 versus 710,000 that the census bureau had estimated.

 

[arnoldevns]

Wow, the total number of "TV homes" in the US goes down by more than 1.3 million. Is this due to people no longer able to afford cable/sat and not knowing how to tune channels OTA? Or is it a statistical abberation, due to the results of the 2010 census? My home DMA, Charlotte dropped over 60,000 homes and 2 rankings, which I'm very skeptical of.

The number of TV homes did not go down. I am surprised that Nielsen hasn't explained this better, so here goes.
The Census does an actual count of every American every ten years. Every year in between the Census does an estimate of the population for each municipality. Nielsen uses Census data (both the actual census and the estimates) to come up with their yearly numbers for each DMA. By the time you get near the next census some of these yearly estimates are off by quite a bit. Once the data came in for the actual 2010 census, those errors became quite obvioius. (someone mentioned Dallas earlier.. the 2009 estimate for the city's population was off by well over 100,000 people compared to the 2010 actual census) The new DMA numbers just reflect the data from the actual census and show just how far off the mark the census bureau was for some of the 2009 estimates.

Personally, I prefer the markets defined by the very nice rabbitears.info website. They created something called the READS rankings to avoid any possible litigation from Nielsen over using their DMA data. READS is based on population, not households. It breaks down some markets that Nielsen refuses to. (there's a separate market for Bryan-College Station, Texas whereas that market is lumped into Waco-Temple-Killeen in Nielsen even though they are 100 miles away from each other) I would encourage you to check it out.

tested, I had considered that scenario for the the Charlotte DMA, but if my memory is correct, almost every county in this area surpassed the census estimates. The actual city of Charlotte came in at 720,000 versus 710,000 that the census bureau had estimated.

Yes, they underestimated some areas too.