That would likely be the case in developed nations where there is a strong rule of law. In lesser developed nations, particularly those with no reciprocity agreements, there may be little enforcement and no fees set by legislation.
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2016-2020 Royalty Rate For Webcasters Rises
- Thread starter davideduardo
- Start date
That would likely be the case in developed nations where there is a strong rule of law. In lesser developed nations, particularly those with no reciprocity agreements, there may be little enforcement and no fees set by legislation.
I think a non-profit streamer could be a certified state non-profit. Law recognizes a state non-profit just as legitimate as a federally recognized non-profit. Remember 501c3 is only one type of non-profit. A state non-profit is usually very simple and only a few dollars. There are typically very, very few requirements. Some states even recognize a single person non-profit.
From a federal standpoint the FCC recognizes a state recognized non-profit. I'd think if the FCC allows, so would a court.
From a federal standpoint the FCC recognizes a state recognized non-profit. I'd think if the FCC allows, so would a court.
In this case, the supposedly independent SoundExchange is basically acting as a mouthpiece for the RIAA.
On a related note, I'm not sure why SoundExchange, whose raison d'etre is collecting fees from media and distributing them to artists, is permitted to advocate against its revenue sources...
They might suggest they're advocating FOR their artists. Depends on how you see it.
I must say that this thread about the latest royalty rates is a perfect example of reasonable, measured, and thoughtful debate. It's so nice not to have the typical: 'corporate radio sucks', spewing revisionist history according to a minority of regular contributor's memory, and of course my favorite; 'radio is irrelevant, streaming is King'- diatribe. Well done, and thank you!
There should be a certain classification, I think, for the hobby streamer as revenue is not the mission. It would seem to me the hobby broadcaster may expose more new and/or struggling artists than the streamer that might be shooting for revenue. As for me personally, if I really like a particular artist I actually want the CD versus a download. In my mind the CD is more permanent and can always be downloaded for mobile listening.
Having studied some college internet only streams I find the number of listeners is usually quite low. By comparison, I assume the hobby streamer has fewer listeners. For example, a college of about 11,000 or so only gets 1,000 listening sessions a month yet they promote heavily on campus, have an app and seem to be pretty well programmed. From what they shared, about 1,500 to 1,600 listener hours a month was about it. For several colleges I looked at, this is pretty much par for the course. When you start breaking that down, $500 a year can be fairly stiff.
Having studied some college internet only streams I find the number of listeners is usually quite low. By comparison, I assume the hobby streamer has fewer listeners. For example, a college of about 11,000 or so only gets 1,000 listening sessions a month yet they promote heavily on campus, have an app and seem to be pretty well programmed. From what they shared, about 1,500 to 1,600 listener hours a month was about it. For several colleges I looked at, this is pretty much par for the course. When you start breaking that down, $500 a year can be fairly stiff.
If they want to play radio, they need to pay. One way of thinning of a giant herd.
Yikes!...1600 listener hours/month, I would have expected a lot more from a college station that was well promoted on campus. Assuming the Apple iTunes directory continues next year,for the station below(which I admin) being listed there meant the difference between having maybe 1000 hrs/mo to 4000 hrs/mo or more.
Still, it's strictly a hobby for the site owner and myself. He's paying about $300/yr as it is. A raise to $500 year won't be the end of the world, but a 501c3 might. I'm hoping a state chartered non-profit will be enough. If so, I may go ahead and renew the one I established for my dearly-deleted LPFM.
Marvin at StreamLicensing is still digesting the implications of this ruling on us. So for now, it's wait and see, but a doubling of rates is what I'm expecting for us small-play hobby stations.
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Nah, there really needs to be no difference in rates. The artist doesn't deserve to lose money because a listener chooses to get their fix of the artist's product from a hobbyist instead of a station that can actually generate funds. If someone is listening to the former, that's potentially less revenue, and spins, for the latter meaning less for the person that actually created the music.
You can qualify for the non-profit pricing if you are only a state non-profit. At least in Tennessee, where we incorporated, we had to have a board and some other documents before we started the organization. We were a state non-profit for a few months when we were waiting on our federal 501(c)3 status. I think most hobbyist stations don't make much of any money anyway, most are paid out of pocket.
Hello btw... first post is always fun!
Hello btw... first post is always fun!
Welcome aboard DrMobbins!
Frank
Frank
And hello Dr., I've been thinking the same thing. If worse comes to worse and assuming the CRB is silent on what constitutes a proper non-profit charter, the highly esteemed Roadhouse as shown below may operate under my Colorado non-profit established for a former LPFM CP. But just to be clear, I want to be sure the CRB language is silent on the subject of what constitutes a non-profit before January 1.
For the record, guidance from another Internet radio board is indicating that if we are not a government entity (town,county, school district) or an IRS 501c(3) registered non-profit, then we don't qualify for non-profit rates. Apparently the CRB sharpies don't miss a beat, unlike the FCC.
More likely the pressure comes from SoundExchange. They don't want to lose a penny. Or any fraction thereof.
How legally might Sound Exchange choose what 'laws' it chooses to follow? State certified non-profits are just as legit as any federally recognized and to determine one over the other is something that can wind up in court. Federal agencies consider state recognized non-profits equally with IRS federally recognized non-profits. So, if the Federal Government does not distinguish between state and federally recognized non-profits, then how might a court, obviously a federal one, distinguish or allow for discrimination between Federal and State? One big correction, 501(c)3 is only one classification of not for profit federally recognized entities, so to specify only one classification of legitimate non-profit is obviously incorrect as other versions of non-profits would be allowed as well. And I should note, you will have filings to do as a non-profit, state and federal.
They're just looking out for their clients. And they have a budget to take these things to court. Something the hobbyist may not have.
Granted they have deeper pockets than hobby streamers but my point is if the courts and federal and state governments recognize both state and federally regulated non-profits, then how might Sound Exchange ignore all but one specific type of IRS non-profit? They might have deep pockets but what entity would be so stupid as to refuse to recognize other legitimate non-profit entities the government and the courts recognize on not just a state but federal level. And how about a 501(d) or a 521(a)?
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