24/7 staffing issue

[virgilstreetnc]

30 years ago mom and pop had several hardware stores, a movie theater, several independent grocery stores, etc that all needed to advertise to the community.

While I shop at Wal-Mart like everyone else, and am not whining about evil wallyworld, it did have a huge impact on small market radio, as did the consolidation of large grocery chains, malls, car dealers, and others. Most small stations are lucky to have survived that. But thanks to the determination and love of the business, we still have independent owners that don't answer to corporate accountants.

But Xtalker, I am referring to small market radio non-corporate only.

While your points on mid to large market stations may be accurate, you can't paint all radio station in one broad brush and act as if all owners are greed based.

Many are just like you who happen to take the risk of mortgaging the house because they love the business of radio. But, having said that, not everyone has a large debt to pay off either. Every station is unique as are the owners.

And not all are rich, greedy scoundrals pocketing every penny made and treating employees like second class citizens.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

From a long distance away, I have begun to know VirginStreetNC. He and I are at opposite ends of the age spectrum. I envy him for the progress he has made toward realizing the dream I was unable to put together at his age. He has come here and started a discussion that might produce information to help him make some critical decisions he is facing right now. Any you guys are so full of yourselves you do not realize you are feeding him ample servings of horse-puckey mixed with chicken innards or something.

I got OUT of this business in 1971. Don't try to sell me this horse-whatever about all small town stations operating 24 hours a day with competent, capable human beings on duty around the clock. In the 50s and 60s most stations did have orthodox broadcast equipment but somewhere around this 1970 era is when I started seeing consumer goods from K-Mart, etc showing up in control rooms. Owners were thrilled to have day-timers so they wouldn't have the expense of staying on the air until 10 P.M. .... much less 24 hours.

In that era I saw owners give up full-time frequencies to get a slight power increase by going daytime only. After all TV had everyone fully tied up at night so who wants to burn up electricity staying on the air at night.

In my career I developed a technique to evaluate station management and station owners when I was looking for a new job. Yes, you sit through the interview and evaluate the person making the hire just has he (or she) is evaluating you. Here is what learned to do: Somehow get a look at the engineers workbench and the restroom. There you have it... MY BIG SECRET WEAPON. Remember, that was back when every station had to have at least one First Phone engineer on staff. If management didn't give the engineer a respectable place to work, and a clean, good smelling place to take a crap and wash your hands, you could mark it up in your little black book this was a company to run from.

You guys that are painting the 1970s as some kind of golden age in this business for small town radio have some kind of..... hold it a moment: How many of you guys were at least 5 years old in 1970?

While I was in the business I visited stations on my days off and when I travelled. I counted up about 300 stations visited. Five years ago I began an effort to return to the business as an owner even though I am a bit short of capital. I have now walked my way through another 300 stations. I have put together a pro-forma financial statment and business plan for at least six different stations during these five years. Not a single one of them had a presentable crapper! Had I acquired one of them, the first change would have been some soap and wallpaper for the bathroom! Then the staff would be in a better frame of mind to discuss what music we were going to play, who was going to be on duty for those 3 A.M. phone calls about the weather, etc.

I have been following VirgilStreetNC in several different threads. Thank goodness in some of the others he is getting some help and advice.

Your turn, boys.

 

[allenv]

These discussions are simple opinions and I believe we have all shared opinions.I think we all had said some intelligent things.Am I always right?? Hell no.Do I know it all?not hardly..but I base my opinions on 25 years of expeience and I've seen the good,bad and ugly.I'm not trying to steer anyone in any direction.Some topics I start,some I join.I am probably dead wrong in some cases but it is my honest horse droppings &chicken innards It is fun reading the views of others and I always
try to respect my fellow poster.I hope everyone will continue to do the same.

Allen

 

[w00t]

I worked for a station where they "forgot" to pay the water bill and one weekend we HAD NO crapper. Well, we had the crapper, but you didn't want to use it. This was at the largest 100kw class C FM east of I-95. Allen worked there too... he knows where I'm talking about. And people wonder why I talk crap about the company that owned it.

We all have a different perspective on this. I'm four months out of business school and see this from the point of view you'd expect in that situation. There is no reason radio can't succeed with a modern business plan, and so far, it is (somewhat). Clear Channel is too big to "get it". Don Curtis gets it, and he makes good money at it with very profitable and successful stations. So does Henry Hinton, his business partner.

So... what works in small markets? It depends on the market. Around here it's news/talk, just ask the above two guys, Ben Ball of WTKF, Troy Dreyfus of Pirate Radio, and Paul Knight of Sea-Comm in Wilmington. In the NC mountains, there are still full service FM's with community events and information -- ask Art Sutton. The stations here are largely automated with some local content. Why? It works for them.

So, that leads me to my next point. How much of the day should you staff it? However much you can while turning the profit you feel you should, and making the station's books come out even. There is NO reason why a station should have live people if it can't support it. Every situation is unique and you should find what works with YOURS. Despite what others here think, it is NOT the responsibility of a company or owner to employ people, neither is it solely the goal. You can serve the public interest just as good with an AudioVault as you can with somebody you're paying minimum wage to watch the board. At 3am on Sunday at least the AudioVault won't fall asleep.

I was in radio for all of about two years. In those two years I had more than enough to realize I wanted to run as far away as I could, even having grown up wanting nothing more than a career as a DJ. I still follow the industry very closely, mainly from the business angle, and see the shape and situation it is in. There may have been a clear-cut business plan for every station in 1965 but that is no longer the case, and many of you need to realize that. I say that with utmost respect to you, but you really do need to understand the state of the industry as it is.

So, learn the area, observe what others around are doing, and get started with the business plan you derive from it. Oh, and if you want to be real smart, go Spanish. It works everywhere now.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Two excellent posts! My post was a bit "over the top" for a purpose. I learned years ago when selling advertising when a prospect made some big objection or complaint about the station, just repeat it back to him so he could hear how crude and over the top his complaint was. I hope you guys will take my message as simply a mirror.... Give VirgilStreetNC and the rest of us some more good messages that teach us something we didn't know yesterday.

Hapy typing.

 

[ZAX Double J]

[quite] At 3am on Sunday at least the AudioVault won't fall asleep.
[/quote]

Ah but IT WILL CRASH I know I owned an AV-100 and so will every automation system out there or computer will crash or just quit woking. Then what are you going to do at 3am? You cannot "walk way" form your main thing that makes you money anymore than you can your transmitter/antenna/tower.

As with everyone else these are my opinions form a part-timer of nearly 23 years in radio. No I've never worked as a PD or MD or GM or even an engineer nor do I know what happened in a station internally 30+ years ago. Hell I was 11 so I couldn't have. But I remember WHAT I heard on the radio and the stations here in the Rocky Mount area many of them are still around. I know I heard a lot more localism, more music variety and radio personalities with that, personality. Maybe you forget that I too am a listener just like all the other listeners and if I can hear changes in radio I know the "true" listeners can hear them. My statemens are merely a generalization and are not targeted at any station unless I specifically mention them. I've been somewhat fortunate that I have only worked at only a small number of stations comapred to others. This may give me a limited perspective on things. SO I may be looking at everything wrong, but I am willing to learn and I admit I am wrong when I am. No one knows it all and couldn't possibly know it all. It's an open board for all to discuss and share ideas and opinions and that's all I try to do. Some may not like what I say and some may just as I may not like some views here, but we are all entitled to our opinions and it's OK so share them and even disagree. I respect everyone's opinion.

 

[w00t]

Ah but IT WILL CRASH I know I owned an AV-100 and so will every automation system out there or computer will crash or just quit woking. Then what are you going to do at 3am?

So the silence sensor pages the engineer, he comes in and fixes it, and goes back home to sleep. Things don't break THAT often if they're properly maintained. I'm a network admin on call whenever my workplace is open... and my phone doesn't really ring all that much with broken things.

The main point here is at 3am you're probably not making money. I've been on the air overnights and played close to 6 hours of uninterrupted music... I think there was one night I had two Bojangles spots an hour and nothing else. And I have a feeling they were freebies thrown at Boj to entice them to buy some other daypart.

You cannot "walk way" form your main thing that makes you money anymore than you can your transmitter/antenna/tower.

If you're not making money in the first place at 3am, what's there to be walking away from?

IMO live overnights are good for ONE thing: training new up-and-comers. If there's not one to train, set the computer to "auto" and we'll see you at 6am.

 

[virgilstreetnc]

thanks for comments cowboy, but I've been around the block a few times with both good and bad employers in both large and small markets. I always loved the small market side and when we were able to grab a small station we did.

Certainly no offense has been taken by the many different opinions on the topics I've started or participated in. I just try to clarify my positions and questions are based on small market, where owners do love what they do.

The large markets are sterile and you can't help but be put off by arrogant or flat out ignorant owners. Having cash does not make you a business expert, and much like government, throwing money at a problem to cover your ignorance is not the answer.

And some of the most hard-core, live at the station, never take a bath, I LIVE AND BREATH radio guys used to come up with the most unique automation processes before the PC computer age. This was automation before the public even knew what automation was.

You'd have reel to reels hooked up to cart machines hooked up to cassette machines hooked up to turn tables hooked up to an egg timer!

They could not afford to hire overnight guys, but you could never say these guys didn't deserve to own a station just because they did not have a silver spoon stuck in their mouth. They were radio!

 

[allenv]

Woot,
What a time it was with Bill O'Brien,Stephanie Gladwell and that crew.Damn eight years ago already.I never want to hear 1999 again.Live Action Broadcast(a remote)..A boombox that broke down everyone 8 miles and tearing the snowcone guy's door off at the Pitt Co. fair after I tried to tell Stephanie there was no room for Bobzilla
inside the fair.I once did 4 remotes in one day.Greenviile,Kinston,Jacksonville,Morehead City.Keep your knob on Bob.It was fun but my God were there so ego's across the street from Buddy's Family Resturant or what??? What happened to Marty the one hand party???
Rachael Kawallowsi,She once told me her boardwork was as tight as her ass.Maybe
so.She was a Tripp.She never took advantage of the company dental plan.What a time.How about us at the Beach music festival??? and all those pictures of O'Brien
with James Brown,Sting etc.. on his wall.You could do wonders at the photo mat..
How many GMs did we go through???? That time was second only to Archway in terms of a soap opera.I had fun though..What memories....

 

[w00t]

Woot,
What a time it was with Bill O'Brien,Stephanie Gladwell and that crew.Damn eight years ago already.I never want to hear 1999 again.Live Action Broadcast(a remote)..A boombox that broke down everyone 8 miles and tearing the snowcone guy's door off at the Pitt Co. fair after I tried to tell Stephanie there was no room for Bobzilla
inside the fair.I once did 4 remotes in one day.Greenviile,Kinston,Jacksonville,Morehead City.Keep your knob on Bob.It was fun but my God were there so ego's across the street from Buddy's Family Resturant or what??? What happened to Marty the one hand party???
Rachael Kawallowsi,She once told me her boardwork was as tight as her ass.Maybe
so.She was a Tripp.She never took advantage of the company dental plan.What a time.How about us at the Beach music festival??? and all those pictures of O'Brien
with James Brown,Sting etc.. on his wall.You could do wonders at the photo mat..
How many GMs did we go through???? That time was second only to Archway in terms of a soap opera.I had fun though..What memories....

Rachel told me her boardwork was tighter than uh... something else. I won't go there! And yeah, Bill was a hell of a PD to work for. It was a shame when he got let go.

I still talk to Marty quite often. He works at G105 now in Raleigh.

They still have Bobzilla I think. How it still runs I'll never know.

 

[ZAX Double J]

OK I give up. I see the point is moot. I guess I'm trying to save the job of all those up and comers, but hell let's get rid of them too then there won't be anyone who even wants to run a station in the future. After a few generatons there won't even BE radio stations becuase no one was inspired by an on-air person to get into the business. It was an on-air personilty (several actually) that inspired me to get into this business, If it was not for them I'd be doing something else entirely and would not have such a passion for this business. SO if you take all the annoucers away and let there be a jukebox then where does that leave you.

Now we can take this a step even further, let's get rid of all the other people in the station because they cost way too much money except the sales department seeing as they're "Gods" anyway maybe they could cut the commercials they are supposed to sell, schedule the music, schedule the commercials, answer the phone, work on the transmitter or computer when it does break, etc. Nothing is impossible they just MAY be able to find time to actually SELL some time on the station. But this is corporate radio's vision of a staffless stations that makes gobs of money through osmosis. Now that is the station the owners WILL love zero overhead and tons of money so they can buy that luxury yacht they've always wanted while the rest of us are living under the bridge with rags for clothes. Unfortunately, THIS IS the vision of this country and it's getting there very fast. It takes people to get the job done.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Some of us in this conversation have also bee participating in the conversations about SMALL stations. I just went back through this thread and realized VirgilStreetNC DID NOT restrict his question on the topic of 24/7 to small stations only.

And yet, the discussion really defaults to small stations. Large market operations will get busy and figure out some way to staff around the clock if they must. It may create some strange or dumb situations, but they can work the cost in if they must.

These stations should have the talent that inspires the next generation in this business for one thing. In some cases it may be the personality of DJs at parties and weddings that inspire young people that they want to be "performers" so they then start looking for places where they can perform. Some will venture into broadcasting.

But even in the sparsest of operations I still see the possibility of inspiring the next generation about the business. Take some little town somewhere. On another board today someone described a station in East Tennessee that was so small that the lady who owns it operates a gift-shop store in the radio station as a second source of income. Think about some little town of 3,000 somewhere in the mountains with ONE full-time owner/manager/salesman/talent. If this person (and it could be a woman or a man) is comfortable with the automation and has personality, the station will sound perky and lively. I use a mountain community for my example because you have a good probability to are going to find 3 to 6 people who have chose to retire there who have broadcasting experience. You hire these people to work 5 or 6 hours a week and suddenly you have a lot a talent in your 2-cup tea-pot radio station.

A 12 or 13 year old kid can listen and never know that a radio station in New York and Chicago or Charlotte has MORE talent on staff that his/her "hero station".

Come on guys. Think positive.

 

[allenv]

Rachael was a good talent but a strange lady.She always seemed to think it was below her to work in Eastern NC.Bill was a nice guy in a tough spot.What worked in Philly did not always work here.Gladwell I like..what a piece of work.I called her
Fran Drescher(the Nanny) on speed.I worked some with Mike Maduske at the East
Carolina Motor Speedway.Where is Dave Tripp??? Erica Sykes??? Penny??? Flav??
Sam Hassell was in Goldsboro with me in 03.Remember the traffic girl that took lunch and never came back one day??? Brian Schimmel where is he??? Bob started with Floyd and has survived many hurricanes not of the weather variety....

Allen

 

[allenv]

Double J is a smart,passionate radio person who works with some people who fail to see what a great asset he is to First Media.Too much time is spent having to please the corporate tie sniffers in Easton,MD.Its a shame, those stations are loaded with good people who have their hands tied but a bunch of guys who have so many vowels in their last names my computer spell check just laughs at me.
The corporate weasels come down every six months or so, give a ra ra speech and head back up 95 having created more problems than there were before their visit.If your last name contains more than 18 letters you should not be allowed
to come near a radio station in North Carolina.Damn Yankees!!

Allen

 

[firecop947]

Allen and I come from the same era of radio. I'm so glad we were able to get into the business when radio still was radio. It seems that in today's cookie cutter industry, there is no room for a young kid to get into the business. Long gone are the days of overnight shifts and live jocks on the weekends.

I started in 1981 at WFTC in Kinston, NC working 6am-Noon on Sunday. I loaded all the church programs, and between 1030 -11am I was able to "jock" playing gospel music. I loved it and could not wait for Sunday to come!

I used to "hang-out during the week at WRNS and learned from Jim Stoddard. He did nights, 6pm - 12mid I think. Jim was a great guy and very helpful in working out my "kinks" on the air. WRNS was known as "The Country Giant".

Here's the line-up as I remember.

6am-12noon - Lou Toler

12noon-6pm - Warren Tyndall (Also did the Swap Shop) Great guy too!

6pm - Mid - Jim Stoddard

Great radio!

All the Best!

Firecop

 

[XTalker]

I think this has been one of the better discussion on this board in a long time. A lot of great thought and ideas have been expressed here. I think we all agree that small town radio can work and that a full service format is the choice that sets the smaller station apart from the more regional ones.

A lot has been said about overnights, and weekends. We have missed a very important point. While the small broadcaster has trouble justifying a human 24/7, it is certainly a necessary element for survival.

We have the technology to at least create the perception of 24/7 service. 95% of the time, nothing happens, whatever automated or syndicated format is just fine. But when bad weather strikes or there is major breaking news, we have the technology to "wake up" the owner or PD, who could then provide services via remote control.

 

[w00t]

Rachael was a good talent but a strange lady.She always seemed to think it was below her to work in Eastern NC.Bill was a nice guy in a tough spot.What worked in Philly did not always work here.Gladwell I like..what a piece of work.I called her
Fran Drescher(the Nanny) on speed.I worked some with Mike Maduske at the East
Carolina Motor Speedway.Where is Dave Tripp??? Erica Sykes??? Penny??? Flav??
Sam Hassell was in Goldsboro with me in 03.Remember the traffic girl that took lunch and never came back one day??? Brian Schimmel where is he??? Bob started with Floyd and has survived many hurricanes not of the weather variety....

Allen

Bill was an interesting character but to be honest he didn't really know how to program. Either that or he did and the people above him were shouting down such unclear orders that he didn't really know what direction to go. I'm more inclined to go with #2.

Flav I heard left radio after he was let go from 93.3 awhile back. Dave Tripp is the PD of Rock 105.5 in Jacksonville. I don't quite remember Erica Sykes but Penny The Party Girl was the drama teacher at my high school. I never understood why or how she got the job with Bill in the morning.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

A lot has been said about overnights, and weekends. We have missed a very important point. While the small broadcaster has trouble justifying a human 24/7, it is certainly a necessary element for survival.

We have the technology to at least create the perception of 24/7 service. 95% of the time, nothing happens, whatever automated or syndicated format is just fine. But when bad weather strikes or there is major breaking news, we have the technology to "wake up" the owner or PD, who could then provide services via remote control.

No offense to the ladies who read this, but the second paragraph above is where the industry will separate "the men from the boys". The technology to create not only the perception of 24/7 service, but to create the benefits normally attributed to real 24/7 on-duty... is not free. To install the small amount of equipment in more than one home that can interrupt the station and put the emergency conditions audio on the air is a cost that some operators will still moan and groan about. Some will drag their feet and look for loopholes.

 

[XTalker]

It can be done with a reasonable amount of money. It will require a willingness to do it, and the creativity to make it happen.

With programs like pcAnywhere, or web based services like GoToMyPC, you can remotely control virtually any digital automation system.

An audio feed can be as simple as a phone line, or POTS system.

Someone with the knowhow can sit at home and provide virtually any information necessary and control the AudioVault or SS system.

I recall one time putting my cell phone on the air remotely, and broadcasting severe weather coverage while driving to the station. Was it perfect? No, but it provided the service expected from the station.

I believe it is about the willingness and the innovation to make it happen.

 

[ZAX Double J]

Double J is a smart,passionate radio person who works with some people who fail to see what a great asset he is to First Media.Too much time is spent having to please the corporate tie sniffers in Easton,MD.Its a shame, those stations are loaded with good people who have their hands tied but a bunch of guys who have so many vowels in their last names my computer spell check just laughs at me.
The corporate weasels come down every six months or so, give a ra ra speech and head back up 95 having created more problems than there were before their visit.If your last name contains more than 18 letters you should not be allowed
to come near a radio station in North Carolina.Damn Yankees!!

Allen

Thanks Allen for the great words.

All great posts and yes, with technology I could sit at home in my living room and do a complete show and be connected to the station's automation systems. Some systems even have "remote" programs available to do just this very thing. I know iMediaTouch does.

When I started at WEED in August of 1986 I worked both Saturday and Sundays usually from 12pm to 6pm or 6pm until sign off at midnight. There was no automation and yes sometimes I do miss the old turntables and cart machines. But I didn't have anyone there that would "mentor" me and give me feedback on how I was doing as many of you have had which is crucial when you're just getting into the business. I still wish I had that kind of mentoring, but everyone is too busy with daily life. Back then I'd love to have "hung out" at the station more, but I was going to a community college full time and doing other stuff. Had I, things may be different.