30% More Processing Power?

[LevelDevil]

New to the group. Noticed lots of threads on processing, and here's another one.

My station has a Vorsis AP-1000 (bought by the previous eng) and the Wheatstone guy brought over the new AP-2000 to try. Not really sure there's much new to it. While the manual claims 30% more dsp power, I had a look at the schematics to find out it has the AP-1000 board inside. Closer looking at the physical motherboards of our AP-1000 and the demo AP-2000 reveal they are the SAME board! So, where's the 30% more dsp?

For those wondering how it sounds, not a lot of difference. They added some new voice function, that sort of works, but seems to get fooled a lot and then misprocesses other material. Calls to their company haven't helped much either.

Not real happy here. First, why would they release a new top of line processor shortly after the original, if the original was as good as they claim? Then, why use the same circuitry and say it has more power?

Our PD was never happy with it, and we're switching back to another system.

 

[OttoM]

Not real happy here. First, why would they release a new top of line processor shortly after the original, if the original was as good as they claim? Then, why use the same circuitry and say it has more power?

Our PD was never happy with it, and we're switching back to another system.

Just out of curiosity - you said the boards were the same, but were the DSP chips also identical? Maybe that's where the 30% performance increase came from.

As for your PD's opinion - he's not alone. Some on this board praise the Vorsis units, while most pan them.

 

[LevelDevil]

Just out of curiosity - you said the boards were the same, but were the DSP chips also identical? Maybe that's where the 30% performance increase came from.

As for your PD's opinion - he's not alone. Some on this board praise the Vorsis units, while most pan them.

Sorry, the dsp chips are the same. Even looked up the tech notes on the chips to verify. Took time to closely look at the boards of both units.

 

[menotti1]

30% More Processing Power? Are you sure it wasn't 80% more BS power.(heeee)

 

[dspxscott]

Just out of curiosity - you said the boards were the same, but were the DSP chips also identical? Maybe that's where the 30% performance increase came from.

As for your PD's opinion - he's not alone. Some on this board praise the Vorsis units, while most pan them.

Sorry, the dsp chips are the same. Even looked up the tech notes on the chips to verify. Took time to closely look at the boards of both units.

Most processing companies are becoming increasingly enviromentally friendly and if they can reduce power consumption in a processor then usually will. I know BW broadcast, the makers of the popular DSPX series certainly do.
I can only imagine that Vorsis, the wheatstone company from new bern, NC think like us. I imagine that the original AP1000 had a programmable clock in it that was running at the lowest clock rate required to achieve the required mips from the unit and be enviromentally friendly. Perhaps now their AP2000 code requires more horsepower so they upped the clock rate and got there 30% increase in power from the same DSP's on the same motherboard. Magic, ay!

I love all these flames coming from 0 day posters.

Board moderators! I think you should put the first two (or even three) hex bytes of the posters IP's. I know most people on here have nothing to hide. Let's all play fair people.

 

[wgliradio]

FYI: All the Vorsis boxes have increased wiggle room. Alot of it is for what is already there and the extra room is for further enhancements to their product line.

I doubt very much that Vorsis support has left you in the lurch. They are very responsive to feedback from end users. I have an Air 2+ and an AP-1000 and have never been left behind when coming to them with questions.

 

[LevelDevil]

I can only imagine that Vorsis, the wheatstone company from new bern, NC think like us. I imagine that the original AP1000 had a programmable clock in it that was running at the lowest clock rate required to achieve the required mips from the unit and be enviromentally friendly. Perhaps now their AP2000 code requires more horsepower so they upped the clock rate and got there 30% increase in power from the same DSP's on the same motherboard. Magic, ay!

I love all these flames coming from 0 day posters.

Board moderators! I think you should put the first two (or even three) hex bytes of the posters IP's. I know most people on here have nothing to hide. Let's all play fair people.

Intrigue.

The clock rates appear to the same. I understand about dsp cycles and clock rate, but thank you for your explanation.

 

[cgould]

Sorry, the dsp chips are the same. Even looked up the tech notes on the chips to verify. Took time to closely look at the boards of both units.

I've seen the box, and the lid has "tamper detection" tape on all corners...I take it you don't plan on returning the unit for repair or trade-in anytime soon?



-Cornelius

 

[fm-engineer]

If I had one (Vorsis), and if they still made the A500 console, I would trade it for the console in a heartbeat. I still have a place in my heart for the old Wheatstone and Pacific analog boards. ;D

Sorry, the dsp chips are the same. Even looked up the tech notes on the chips to verify. Took time to closely look at the boards of both units.

I've seen the box, and the lid has "tamper detection" tape on all corners...I take it you don't plan on returning the unit for repair or trade-in anytime soon?



-Cornelius

 

[Sgeirk]

I'm not going to take this off on a tangent, but amen!

 

[littlejohn]

I'll go for the Pacific. Battleships throughout, and excellent sound. And a noise floor below a lot of today's digital mixers (Compare the BMX III specs to what's being sold).
Wheatstone built a good product, but I never felt it was as physically rugged. When you stand on it to change a tracklight, it gave a bit. The Pacific didn't budge. Also, in the early days, when you called Wheatstone for a module, the parts guy would ask "Uh, what;'s the serial number of that board??" Mix and match between them could be a problem.
That being said, I use their digital stuff now and love it. Rugged and good looking, and the jocks like them.
Maybe we could get Jack Williams to participate here and lay some wisdom on us from time to time... ?

 

[whit979]

We're testing the new Vorsis VP-8 right now and I must say that there is some substantiation to what they are saying. Yes, it comes with its own set of minor issues just like many other budget boxes, but the things they have introduced into the processing world (specifically the VBMS bass system) are nothing short of amazing. I would put the VP-8 and the DSPX almost equal in loudness and both boxes can get crazy loud with little, if any, distortion.

Maybe I'm a sucker for good marketing but I bought into the Vorsis claims and have not been disappointed thus far.

 

[Jay Tyler]

Greetings LevelDevil,

Thank you once again for evaluating both AP-1000 and the AP-2000. Good or bad we appreciate all your feedback and encourage others to "step outside the box" and try our Vorsis processors. As matter of fact we are currently running a promotion 7/15/08 - 10/15/08 with our distributors. They will ship you our AP-2000 or FM-2000 with a no hassle return policy. After working with us here at Vorsis, if for any reason our processors do not meet the clients expectations they can return it to the distributor with no questions asked.

Mr. Devil, (can I call you Level?) if you are truly unhappy with the AP-1000 you have on-site please contact me directly via telephone (252) 638-7000 and you have two options:

1) Ship your AP-1000 back to us and we can upgrade the motherboard (yes they are different) and we will work with you to get your desired sound.

2) If after that your are not satisfied with the performance you can return it for a full refund.

If you still have the AP-2000 demo which "I the Wheatstone Guy" brought by and you are unhappy with it condition 2 applies here as well. We will be happy to take it back no questions asked.

Please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

Jay Tyler
Sales Engineer
Wheatstone / Vorsis
[email protected]

 

[dtube1]

I put an Omnia6 in last month; but I played with an AP2k at a conference two months ago. Tonally, I found it capable of doing whatever the operator wanted it to do. After about an hour with it, I could get the sound I wanted with some play-room. I do like the topology and approach of the GUI - its more "audio guy" than "CE" oriented IMO. I was able to fool the the voice processing on some material, though. To be honest, I'm leaning towards it for my HD project this Fall.
-D

 

[LevelDevil]

Mr. Devil, (can I call you Level?) if you are truly unhappy with the AP-1000 you have on-site please contact me directly via telephone (252) 638-7000 and you have two options:

1) Ship your AP-1000 back to us and we can upgrade the motherboard (yes they are different) and we will work with you to get your desired sound.

2) If after that your are not satisfied with the performance you can return it for a full refund.

If you still have the AP-2000 demo which "I the Wheatstone Guy" brought by and you are unhappy with it condition 2 applies here as well. We will be happy to take it back no questions asked.

The questions still remain, where is the added 30% more dsp horsepower as claimed? Also, if the AP-1000 was as good, as claimed by Vorsis, why do we feel like we've made a poor investment in the AP-1000, as it was only introduced two years ago?

 

[RealityCheckr]

Hi Levil

While it may be true that MS Vista is a less capable OS than XP, generally as technologvy evolves over a period as long as 2 years things get better.

If you wait infinitely long you can have the best. Otherwise you'll have to make a decision.

This is true with all processors which is one reason why a demo and a/b comparison with another option you are considering (or even better a/b/c with your current processor too) is the way to go.

Moaning and groaning that you can get more for less no than 2 years ago is simply stating you do not understand technology.

Good luck!

PS- instead of moaning in public you should have called and asked to speak to a VP. Results would be the same without damaging the reputation of good people. Your post is exactly why I started posting on this board!

 

[LevelDevil]

While it may be true that MS Vista is a less capable OS than XP, generally as technologvy evolves over a period as long as 2 years things get better.

Moaning and groaning that you can get more for less no than 2 years ago is simply stating you do not understand technology.

Missed the point. If the AP-1000 was as revolutionary as claimed by Vorsis, why the need for a new design in such a short time? Those who bought in to the AP-1000 feel they made a bad investment, especially when the AP-1000 was said to be breaking new ground in processing. If they had the headroom, as claimed by another poster, then why not a software upgrade? Why a whole new unit, and one that has the AP-1000 motherboard inside?

Unless Vorsis is willing to upgrade ALL AP-1000 units to AP-2000 at no cost, seems like a bad investment, and they're not confident in their product if they need to offer a whole new version so soon. Seems this is the case for the late comer processing types over the last few years.

At NAB, I did talk to a VP about this, and got a very lame answer.

 

[menotti1]

i agree with you leveldevil, they need to make it right.Truth of the matter is almost anyone can build a processor,but bringing it to market is a different matter.Getting that strong brand preference like Omnia and Orban is no easy task.i think Vorsis may have borrowed from GM,throw it on the wall and see what happens,well we all can see where GM is heading.you can build it,but can you sell it?

 

[whit979]

Welcome to Business and Marketing 101. When Gillette puts out a razor that vibrates and calls it a "Power" razor, do you really think you'd get a better shave with it vs. the razor with no battery? NO. It's the same product, but it's all about the marketing so that they can sell more razors. Sometimes it's about selling products to people who are skeptical about the original product. I never used Mozilla Firefox to browse the Internet until they came out with Version 2.0, simply because version "1.0" of something often carries some risk along with it. The 2.0 version was basically the same web browser as before, but nevertheless it made me more interested in using the product. Vorsis lists a number of improvements on the AP-2000, possibly all things which could have been updated in the AP-1000 software. But, if upgrading the software and putting a new paint job on the unit is all Vorsis had to do in order to get more people interested in them, then creating the AP-2000 was a no-brainer for Wheatstone.

It appears that most retailers are offering the AP-2000 at about the same price point as the AP-1000 so the best thing to do may be to just count your blessings that somebody plopped down huge coin for a good processor at your station. You could be doing a LOT worse, believe me!

 

[wgliradio]

Missed the point. If the AP-1000 was as revolutionary as claimed by Vorsis, why the need for a new design in such a short time? Those who bought in to the AP-1000 feel they made a bad investment, especially when the AP-1000 was said to be breaking new ground in processing. If they had the headroom, as claimed by another poster, then why not a software upgrade? Why a whole new unit, and one that has the AP-1000 motherboard inside?

Unless Vorsis is willing to upgrade ALL AP-1000 units to AP-2000 at no cost, seems like a bad investment, and they're not confident in their product if they need to offer a whole new version so soon. Seems this is the case for the late comer processing types over the last few years.

At NAB, I did talk to a VP about this, and got a very lame answer.

IIRC, the Omnia FM was merely 3 years old before it got replaced by the Omnia 6.