• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

30% More Processing Power?

WGLI

You got it! Nail; Head; Hammer

Same deal with the Orban 8400 and 8500

Level - if the box wasn't worth it it should not have been bought

wgliradio said:
IIRC, the Omnia FM was merely 3 years old before it got replaced by the Omnia 6.
 
RealityCheckr said:
WGLI

You got it! Nail; Head; Hammer

Same deal with the Orban 8400 and 8500

Level - if the box wasn't worth it it should not have been bought

wgliradio said:
IIRC, the Omnia FM was merely 3 years old before it got replaced by the Omnia 6.

The 8400 was in production for five years and received quite a few free software upgrades over its lifetime. 8400s were upgradable for HD processing.

The 8500 replaced the 8400 mainly because we needed more DSP to do some of the new things we wanted to do with the new box. (The 8500 has twice DSP power of the 8400.) Since it was first released, the 8500 has already gotten many free software upgrades, including a major one (v 2.0) that added functionality (an independent equalizer and 5-band compressor for the HD chain) that was not offered when the 8500 was first released.

Bob Orban
 
rorban said:
wgliradio said:
IIRC, the Omnia FM was merely 3 years old before it got replaced by the Omnia 6.

The 8400 was in production for five years and received quite a few free software upgrades over its lifetime. 8400s were upgradable for HD processing.

The 8500 replaced the 8400 mainly because we needed more DSP to do some of the new things we wanted to do with the new box. (The 8500 has twice DSP power of the 8400.) Since it was first released, the 8500 has already gotten many free software upgrades, including a major one (v 2.0) that added functionality (an independent equalizer and 5-band compressor for the HD chain) that was not offered when the 8500 was first released.

Bob Orban

On this topic, seems we've followed the same path as Bob. Omnia.fm had numerous software updates during the 4 - 5 years before Omnia.6 was released. In the same fashion, Omnia.6 came about due to increased DSP resources that could not have been embedded into the Omnia.fm design - Hence a new model. Whomever made the prior comment regarding the time period between Omnia.fm and Omnia.6, sorry your recall was off a bit. :)

-Frank Foti
 
Our company’s products serve the global broadcast market and outside the US there are countries that prohibit the importation of equipment that contains among other things, solder that contains lead. We are among many thousands of electronic equipment manufacturers worldwide affected by the RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances) regulations.

Often an IC’s physical package or its internal performance specs change when the manufacturer modifies them for RoHS compliance. Sometimes parts are even inexplicably and unceremoniously discontinued without much notice. In 2005 when the AP1000 was designed some of its components were not available in RoHS versions yet. So even if there was never going to be an AP2000 a hardware redesign was necessary just to keep up with the RoHS-driven parts obsolescence so we could continue to build AP1000’s and meet demand for the product.

When we had to update the AP1000 design for RoHS (and to create the board to run the new AP2000 code we were developing) we added a bunch of additional DSP so that we could support lots of new features for the AP2000 as we create them. That’s where the "30% more" comes from. DSP MIPS-wise we could technically claim a much higher ‘number’ (because it is) instead of just the minimum that is due to just to just the presence of 30% more physical DSP chips than the original AP1000 had.

In fall 2007 AP1000’s with its existing code modified to run on the new board began shipping with Rev E/F hardware. That is the hardware that LevelDevil says he has and it can be factory upgraded to full AP2000 capability at any time. From the start we've had a painless trade-up process in place to update any AP1000 to the far more powerful AP2000 for any (yes, any) customer who wants it.

About the claim: “Calls to their company haven't helped much either”.

Not so LevelDevil! (Guess he doesn’t know that “I” personally handle calls from APx000 customers and know from our records that I have never talked to him or anyone else with questions about our VoiceMaster algorithm). Nice try though. Next….

He raises the question: “why would they release a new top of line processor shortly after the original, if the original was as good as they claim?

First, manufactures learn a lot from releasing a product into the marketplace (nothing is better than out in the real world!). If they don’t learn from that experience they won’t be around to make the ‘next’ model!

Second, it was the unavoidable need to update the AP1000 hardware design for RoHS compliance.

Third, the AP1000 (unveiled NAB 2006) was our first high-end model with advanced features like our revolutionary 31 band limiter/clipper – something never seen before in any audio processor. This is a huge leap forward in peak control technology of a magnitude not unlike what Bob Orban created years ago that was also very revolutionary and something that no one had done before – his first distortion canceled clipper.

And just as other designers did after they released a product to the world, we’ve learned a lot. We’ve listened to our customers. We’ve learned from their experiences in the field. And most importantly we’ve kept careful track of the features and performance they want in an audio processor and we’re busy designing and building new products to fill those needs. Our 100% in-house design and manufacturing, the high sophistication of our development tools and our large Vorsis R&D staff simply allows us to design new products and respond to competitive challenges more quickly and efficiently than most of our competitors can. There is nothing wrong with that advantage...

Audio processing (at least for the 30-some years I’ve been involved with it) is a highly subjective science. The processor that pleases you or me will probably displease someone else and you know what? That’s perfectly okay! Not liking a processor’s design or its sound, regardless of your personal feelings or even your professional biases, doesn’t make the product itself wrong. Nor does it make its design or its designers incompetent. It simply means that it’s probably the wrong processor for you. That's why we offer a ‘we’ll take it back if you don’t like it’ test drive of all of our audio processors. So if you don’t like it there’s no need to raise a ruckus on public boards with veiled attempts to cast doubt on our company’s intentions, our integrity, or to try to dissuade others from considering our products. Simply don’t buy it!

I’m always willing to discuss our technologies, processing philosophies, and how to get the most from our products with genuinely interested individuals. Since I’ve never spoken to LevelDevil I’ll even offer the same to him. All I ask in return is that you approach our approach to audio processing with an open mind and a willingness to learn some new ways of doing things!

Jeff Keith, CPBE, NCE
Senior Product Development Engineer
Vorsis Audio Processors
252-638-7000
[email protected]
 
FFoti1 said:
Whomever made the prior comment regarding the time period between Omnia.fm and Omnia.6, sorry your recall was off a bit. :)

-Frank Foti

According to the Omnia site, the Omnia FM was introduced in 1997 (I would probably think at NAB in April). The Omnia 6 started shipping in the spring of 2001 (I thought it had been out in the fall of 2000). That's 4 years, not bad off the top of my head ;)

Also, the Omnia 6 was forward thinking for Omnia. DAB was probably a huge consideration, plus their introuduction of a 6 band topology. Instead of having plug ins like the Omnia FM, you had one box that did it all. Just because it was only 4 years later, and the AP-2000 only 3, doesn't mean the former product was a failure. In fact, the Omnia FM was the first digital processor with acceptable results AFAIK. The 6, 8400, VP-1000 etc etc have all raised the bar since.
 
Every product has a marketing life cycle, like new and improved Tide(sure).Processors are no different.Platform changes and DSP power increases make it possible.Staying slightly ahead of the curve is the key.Plus having one strong sales and marketing arm never hurts.
 
menotti1 said:
Every product has a marketing life cycle, like new and improved Tide(sure).Processors are no different.Platform changes and DSP power increases make it possible.Staying slightly ahead of the curve is the key.Plus having one strong sales and marketing arm never hurts.

That's certainly true for a $10 bottle of Tide or a $500 computer. When one's plunking down ten large for a product, they usually don't expect that within two years it's totally redesigned - RoHS or no RoHS. Makes one wonder if that "learning from the real world" really means the paying customers are doing beta testing that's usually done before a product is released.
 
GM has been doing it for years.I don;t buy Tide anymore,i switched to the new FUGG detergent.I figure if Tide can't clean it FUGG it..
 
Rob Stutson said:
That's certainly true for a $10 bottle of Tide or a $500 computer. When one's plunking down ten large for a product, they usually don't expect that within two years it's totally redesigned - RoHS or no RoHS. Makes one wonder if that "learning from the real world" really means the paying customers are doing beta testing that's usually done before a product is released.

Hate to tell you, but in the real world, every year people by $20,000 automobiles that are only redesigned again the next model year. Vorsis took the steps to make sure they old AP-1000 could be upgraded.
 
Jeff_Keith said:
Third, the AP1000 (unveiled NAB 2006) was our first high-end model with advanced features like our revolutionary 31 band limiter/clipper – something never seen before in any audio processor. This is a huge leap forward in peak control technology of a magnitude not unlike what Bob Orban created years ago that was also very revolutionary and something that no one had done before – his first distortion canceled clipper.

Exactly what is "revolutionary" about a 31-band limiter/clipper other than that it has more bands?

Bob Orban
 
wgliradio said:
Hate to tell you, but in the real world, every year people by $20,000 automobiles that are only redesigned again the next model year. Vorsis took the steps to make sure they old AP-1000 could be upgraded.

Those same people who bought $20,000 automobiles aren't replacing them in two years. They invested in the product and expected it to last for many years. A good design lends itself to shelf life.

The Vorsis eng claimed RoHS was a need to redesign. RoHS was a requirement long before the AP-1000 was released. This means AP-1k is not RoHS compliant based on the admission by their guy.

Weak reasonings posted to my question, which has yet to be answered. Lots of fluff...
 
LevelDevil said:
Why replace the AP-1000? It can be upgraded. And as far as I'm concerned, the AP-1000 will last for years and is upgradeable, unlike an automobile. That's much better. Not easy to retrofit side impact air bags into a vehicle that doesn't have it.
 
rorban said:
Jeff_Keith said:
Third, the AP1000 (unveiled NAB 2006) was our first high-end model with advanced features like our revolutionary 31 band limiter/clipper – something never seen before in any audio processor. This is a huge leap forward in peak control technology of a magnitude not unlike what Bob Orban created years ago that was also very revolutionary and something that no one had done before – his first distortion canceled clipper.

Exactly what is "revolutionary" about a 31-band limiter/clipper other than that it has more bands?
That technical savvy people still fall for marketing gimmicks like 31-band limiters. ;D

I remember an engineer in the DC area that rigged double texar prisms to get 8 bands per channel. He had a home brew crossover that was attached to the mother board, and some type of op amp circuit for the final mixdown. This was in front of an 8100 with the XT chassis. Circa 1986 or so. I don't think more than five or six bands is something never seen before. Maybe not in a production unit, but certainly within home-brew black box territory.
 
wgliradio said:
Why replace the AP-1000? It can be upgraded. And as far as I'm concerned, the AP-1000 will last for years and is upgradeable, unlike an automobile. That's much better. Not easy to retrofit side impact air bags into a vehicle that doesn't have it.

Have not seen any claim the Ap-1k can be upgraded. All marketing stuff talks about new redesign. Just more confusion.
 
I tip for ya.

Once you buy it you should be liasing with support. Once you buy the product it is there job to take care of you, not the sales and marketing people.

That said, both the Sales guy AND the Technical Manager have both offered to upgrade you already.

Also, if you read these replies you would know that you have the "new" mother board so *maybe* this could even be done without returning the product.

Perhaps you could explain just what it is you expect to get by B!tching here? The company has offered anything and everything you could want but you continue to whine.

Or, you are too simple to read the responses to your inappropriate post?

Well?

Next time try calling support!

Another Reality Check brought to you by RealityCheckr

PS - If you do call them, I would suggest you lose the 'tude. As someone that has worked for over a decade in support, I can tell you that people with your attitude do get every bit of support they are entitled to. But when it comes to those little extra's like an employees staying at work for 2 hours late, or going out of his way home to go to Fedex for you, it doesn't happen to those who act like &*&(*(#!^.

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

LevelDevil said:
wgliradio said:
Why replace the AP-1000? It can be upgraded. And as far as I'm concerned, the AP-1000 will last for years and is upgradeable, unlike an automobile. That's much better. Not easy to retrofit side impact air bags into a vehicle that doesn't have it.

Have not seen any claim the Ap-1k can be upgraded. All marketing stuff talks about new redesign. Just more confusion.
 
You expect a company to put out a product and then just quit trying to make a better one? Maybe there are advances in chip technology, or maybe the designer one-ups himself and comes up with an even better design.

Give ‘em a break. They've publicly offered all they possibly can.
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom