3th dutch soundprocessing day

[kegelclub]

hi all!

The pirate-radiostations from the Netherlands are preparing the 3th Dutch soundprocessing day.
This wil take place in the little village Saasveld in the Netherlands the 9th of december (next sunday).

for more information about this unique day please see:

www.niehoff.nl/radio 8)

 

[wgliradio]

How sad when the 8100 holds its own against the 8500 ;D Now, place an Ariane (instead of the 222A) in front of an 8100 XT2 and drive it right past the 8500.

 

[BROADCAST]

How sad when the 8100 holds its own against the 8500 ;D Now, place an Ariane (instead of the 222A) in front of an 8100 XT2 and drive it right past the 8500.

I think that is dreaming!
Sure you can get a modded 8100a/xt2 to sound good,even very good,but putting an Ariane in front of it(or anything else for that matter) is not going to make the setup a 8500 killer

Don't get me wrong i love the 8100a/xt2,it is a classic,not many other processors at that time you can now call a classic.

 

[kevtronics]

The 8100 shown in the flyer has a see-through door. That's a neat way to tease everyone, by letting them see your settings, but not let them adjust it!

 

[wgliradio]

Sure you can get a modded 8100a/xt2 to sound good,even very good,but putting an Ariane in front of it(or anything else for that matter) is not going to make the setup a 8500 killer

Don't get me wrong i love the 8100a/xt2,it is a classic,not many other processors at that time you can now call a classic.

Actually, I have the proof. A properly setup 8100a/XT2 is just as loud as an 8500 for the same amount of objectionable distortion. I have more than enough experience with both boxes to be able to make this statement. Now, this is based on what you perceive as objectionable distortion. I don't like the look ahead limiter/clipping section of the 8500, I much prefer the Card 0 system found in the 8100.

The low end detail in the 8100 with the Ariane is rounder, tighter and full compared to the tubby/clippy low end in the 8500. Voices are much smoother in the 8100 even at extereme settings and the Ariane provides AGC control Orban and Ogonowski could only dream of in the 8500 (in fact, we replaced the front end of an 8500 at a major market FM with an Ariane because it was so poor, others have used Compellors to fix problems). The Orban AGC's have so many band aids because they have been poorly designed all the way back to the 8200 and 8200ST.

All of these examples make the analog 8100a/XT Ariane a much more pleasing experience to listen to than the busy/gruff/gritty bass/AGC poor 8500. The 8100 has the Orban sound and is a very musical box. The 8500 has hints of that same sound, but is way over the top in competitive situations.

 

[kevtronics]

To my ears, the sound of major-market FM radio really reached a low spot in the late '90s... but I don't know whether to blame that on the 8200, or on the first generation of Omnias. Combine that bleeding edge of digital processing with the artifact-galore low-bitrate MP2s and MP3s that were rampant among outside-sourced commercials, news feeds, etc., and often even a bitrate-compressed digital STL, and there was more than enough "digital grunge" to go around, and then some!

Back then I used to listen to the tapes I made of NYC radio in the '80s and early '90s and reminisce of when radio used to sound smooth and energetic -- even at the height of analog overprocessing in the Top 40 war between Z-100 and "Power 95".

Anyway, if you have the patience to download 70+ MB from a slow server, take a listen to the "test mix" posted on that Dutch web site. It's a very eclectic variety of music from CD, vinyl, and MP3s all strung together, from Techno to Polka... but I'm disappointed, no Boten Anna!

 

[stace]

The DSP Xtreme looks cool. Wonder how fast she runs :

but I don't know whether to blame that on the 8200, or on the first generation of Omnias.Boten Anna!

Definately the latter

 

[kevtronics]

Definately the latter

I remember some stations had what I called "burble bass". Instead of tearing up the vocals with clipping distortion, a strong, sustained bass note would itself sort of roll and tumble, giving the bass a "burbly" sound while leaving the vocals clean. Was that an 8200 thing? I haven't heard that kind of effect on the air in years... I just recalled it today by listening to an old tape I made around 1999 and hearing it... then I switched over to current FM, and heard WLTW completely tear up all the vocals on the Pretenders version of "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" with horrible clipping.

 

[CalifZeke]

but I don't know whether to blame that on the 8200, or on the first generation of Omnias.Boten Anna!

Definately the latter

Nope! Definitely the former.

 

[wgliradio]

Nope! Definitely the former.

Yeah, that's an 8200 signature. Selling your soul and sound just to use the word "digital".

 

[kegelclub]

We've thought a long time about the mix , and boten anna didn't even cross our minds for 1 second ;D

 

[rrsounds]

Definately the latter

I remember some stations had what I called "burble bass". Instead of tearing up the vocals with clipping distortion, a strong, sustained bass note would itself sort of roll and tumble, giving the bass a "burbly" sound while leaving the vocals clean. Was that an 8200 thing? I haven't heard that kind of effect on the air in years... I just recalled it today by listening to an old tape I made around 1999 and hearing it... then I switched over to current FM, and heard WLTW completely tear up all the vocals on the Pretenders version of "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas" with horrible clipping.

I know exactly what you are talking about. I had plenty of experience with 'burble bass' at Z100, and I found it to be really annoying. It is not just bass, but the intermodulation of bass and midrange caused by clipping.

One of the things that surprised me was that the channel balance seemed to influence the magnitude of the distortion, which led me to believe that if the bass was balanced properly (i.e., mono), it wouldn't burble so much. My next conclusion was that this particular source of intermodulation would therefore be minimized by reducing the bass response in the L-R program. By doing so, you'd force the bass toward mono.

I tried a matrix with reduced-bass response in the L-R and was happy with the result.

When creating the analog Ariane (a matrix-only processor), I purposefully left out the lowest band in the L-R, and allowed the response to fall off at the rate of the next higher band's low-end response (-6dB/octave, at roughly 120 Hz), a subtle yet effective form of L-R bass reduction, which appears to reduce imbalance-based bass-burbling. Since humans are relatively insensitive to directionality at low frequencies, it's my opinion that subjectively it's a good tradeoff.

As long as the channels are carefully balanced into the final processor, the effect carries through to the subcarrier, where reduced low frequency L-R energy is an especially good thing when multipath is a problem.

L-R bass reduction is not a cure-all, but it seems to help in the burble department. It is a defeatable option in the Sequel.

Kind Regards,
David

 

[kevtronics]

BTW, the New York City FMs have been an Omnia stronghold for quite awhile now, but rumor has it that WCBS-FM switched from Omnia to Optimod (8500HD?) upon the re-debut of their Oldies/Classic Hits format.... or not even rumor -- Bob Shannon himself proclaimed it on Alan Sniffen's board.

 

[fm-engineer]

BTW, the New York City FMs have been an Omnia stronghold for quite awhile now, but rumor has it that WCBS-FM switched from Omnia to Optimod (8500HD?) upon the re-debut of their Oldies/Classic Hits format.... or not even rumor -- Bob Shannon himself proclaimed it on Alan Sniffen's board.

link?

 

[CalifZeke]

BTW, the New York City FMs have been an Omnia stronghold for quite awhile now, but rumor has it that WCBS-FM switched from Omnia to Optimod (8500HD?) upon the re-debut of their Oldies/Classic Hits format.... or not even rumor -- Bob Shannon himself proclaimed it on Alan Sniffen's board.

The purpose of this post is...?

 

[kevtronics]

The purpose of this post is...?

To fan the flames of the Orban vs. Omnia debate that this thread seems to have stirred up.

 

[CalifZeke]

The purpose of this post is...?

To fan the flames of the Orban vs. Omnia debate that this thread seems to have stirred up.

The only one fanning any flames here, is you. For all the negative comments you make about one product, it seems you have never used, or truly understand it. You wouldn't know the first thing about processing a major market station.

 

[kevtronics]

The only one fanning any flames here, is you. For all the negative comments you make about one product, it seems you have never used, or truly understand it. You wouldn't know the first thing about processing a major market station.

Note that I have been an equal opportunity basher of the 8200 and the older Omnias. Digital done wrong is digital done wrong, regardless of whose name is on the faceplate.

And the first thing about processing a major market station is how it sounds on the air! Despite the major improvements in distortion control that have been made by the latest processors, when your station sounds objectionably distorted even on a clock radio, something is definitely being done wrong.

 

[CalifZeke]

]
Note that I have been an equal opportunity basher of the 8200 and the older Omnias. Digital done wrong is digital done wrong, regardless of whose name is on the faceplate.

It's always easy to be a critic. You need to get some real world experience as compared to being a basher. Anyone can be the latter, but much more difficult to be the former.

 

[kevtronics]

It's always easy to be a critic. You need to get some real world experience as compared to being a basher. Anyone can be the latter, but much more difficult to be the former.

Hey, if you're a fan of the 8200 or the original Omnia, that's fine. There is an entire industry created around audio processing devices that purposely add noise, grunge, and distortion to audio, to create a desired "effect." However, that effect does not belong on the air!