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3WS PD

Re: PD autonomy

Terrible comparison. Radio isn't an assembly line function that's supposed to be exactly the same wherever you go.

Since you used food, you're not going to sell a lot of deep dish pizza in New York, even though it's No. 1 in Chicago. Cheesesteaks work great in Philly, not so good in San Diego. Sushi might be big in LA, but good luck selling it in Dallas. Those Primanti sandwiches that Pittsburghers love would be laughed at by New Yorkers used to traditional overstuffed NY deli fare.

Cousin Brucie is a NY legend who is just another voice outside the five boroughs. If I'm running an oldies station in Chicago, I hired John Landecker and Dck Biondi, neither of whom means anything in Pittsburgh, where people think Porky Chedwick invented oldies. If I'm running a station in Pittsburgh, I probably can't play "The Rapper" often enough. Everywhere else it's a bubblegum throwaway from a long-forgotten one-shot group.

Every market is different, every competitive situation is different.



> Name me any successful major company that's not structured
> similarly But for the artistic radio community, it's like
> oversight and accountability are a bad thing. Imagine if
> every McDonald's franchise had total freedom- one Big Mac
> could be great and the next in another city or state could
> suck. Think of GM or Toyota building cars with plant
> managers having the "creative freedom" to make cars their
> way- we'd all be wrecking into trees.
>
>
 
> If you continue to contradict me and the others on this
> thread, and as I see from all your other posts you are
> supporing Gillispie, I would have to conclude that you ARE
> Gillispie.

No, Oldiescat works on an oldies station in Detroit, and since there is no Detroit board, he likes to lecture people from other cities that he has no first hand knowledge of.
 
Re: PD autonomy

> Terrible comparison. Radio isn't an assembly line function
> that's supposed to be exactly the same wherever you go.
>
> Since you used food, you're not going to sell a lot of deep
> dish pizza in New York, even though it's No. 1 in Chicago.
> Cheesesteaks work great in Philly, not so good in San Diego.
> Sushi might be big in LA, but good luck selling it in
> Dallas. Those Primanti sandwiches that Pittsburghers love
> would be laughed at by New Yorkers used to traditional
> overstuffed NY deli fare.
>
> Cousin Brucie is a NY legend who is just another voice
> outside the five boroughs. If I'm running an oldies station
> in Chicago, I hired John Landecker and Dck Biondi, neither
> of whom means anything in Pittsburgh, where people think
> Porky Chedwick invented oldies. If I'm running a station in
> Pittsburgh, I probably can't play "The Rapper" often enough.
> Everywhere else it's a bubblegum throwaway from a
> long-forgotten one-shot group.
>
> Every market is different, every competitive situation is
> different.

You're wasting your time telling that to OldiesCat. He works in Detroit, so he is an expert on EVERY market.
 
3WS ratings

You flunked the Evelyn Woodhead School Of Sped Redin'- 3WS is currently the #3 25-54 station in Pittsburgh. How can you possibly say "lowest ratings in years" with a straight face? Tell us what ratings YOU are looking at, because the Arbitron ratings are the only ratings radio stations and advertisers look at.

This isn't me saying he shouldn't have gotten the boot for a number of reasons or me saying he's a great guy. But, you cannot site poor ratings for his dismissal.
>
> Yes, Gillispie was responsible for 3WS performance. HE is
> accountable for its lowest ratings in years.
>
> Mr. Music
>
 
I don't even know the guy, never met him, though I've heard he is quite the hard-ass. But this conversation has been about the station's ratings performance, not his character. I have all the ratings for Pittsburgh and you can't in one post say they have their lowest ratings in years, then in the next say, "well, they ARE rated as high as the previous PD but it's a fluke". Can't have it both ways.

(BTW- I'm looking at 25-54 adult full-week ratings. If you're quoting 12+ numbers, it says something about you because NOBODY guages station success by looking at 12+ numbers, at least not for the past 35 years).
>
> If you continue to contradict me and the others on this
> thread, and as I see from all your other posts you are
> supporing Gillispie, I would have to conclude that you ARE
> Gillispie.
>
> Mr. Music
>
 
> I don't even know the guy, never met him, though I've heard
> he is quite the hard-ass. But this conversation has been
> about the station's ratings performance, not his character.
> I have all the ratings for Pittsburgh and you can't in one
> post say they have their lowest ratings in years, then in
> the next say, "well, they ARE rated as high as the previous
> PD but it's a fluke". Can't have it both ways.
>
> (BTW- I'm looking at 25-54 adult full-week ratings. If
> you're quoting 12+ numbers, it says something about you
> because NOBODY guages station success by looking at 12+
> numbers, at least not for the past 35 years).


Theres is a difference between a hard-ass programmer (one who knows what he's doing) and a lame-ass hard to work for programmer who didn't know what he was doing. The latter was Gillispie.

Nobody looks at 12+ numbers. We all know it's the 25-54 numbers that count. You don't need to talk down to us here. I use numbers everyday in my work and deciding on which station to buy.

What I was trying to convey, was if 3WS had a #3 ranking it was in the very, very beginning of the Gillispie reign and all the work for that high book was done without his "guidance". It was not his to take credit. That was all the doing of the airstaff. From what I understand, they have a hard work ethic. Even having to endure this idiot as a program director, they continued their hard work.

Yes, you can characterize numbers with "flukes". Diary distributions happen all the time. Why do you think the People Meter has been invented? Because even Arbitron knew that diary discrepencies happen.

No, this conversation hasn't totally been about station performance. You can't have one without the other, especially when talkiing about Greg Gillispie. Nationwide, the whole radio community knows that this guy can't program effectively and successfully. He also makes life unbearable for those who have to work with him. That, accompanied with his horrible character, is why he was FIRED.

End of conversation Greg. I mean, Oldiescat.

Mr. Music
 
> > If you continue to contradict me and the others on this
> > thread, and as I see from all your other posts you are
> > supporing Gillispie, I would have to conclude that you ARE
>
> > Gillispie.
>
> No, Oldiescat works on an oldies station in Detroit, and
> since there is no Detroit board, he likes to lecture people
> from other cities that he has no first hand knowledge of.
>

Well, I don't know why then he'd want to attach himself to someone who the radio community hates. Yes, even the Vps and directors.


It'll just be the death of Oldiescat's radio career if people of importance read this thread and figure out who he is.


Mr. Music
 
Re: PD autonomy

> > Terrible comparison. Radio isn't an assembly line function
>
> > that's supposed to be exactly the same wherever you go.
> >
> > Since you used food, you're not going to sell a lot of
> deep
> > dish pizza in New York, even though it's No. 1 in Chicago.
>
> > Cheesesteaks work great in Philly, not so good in San
> Diego.
> > Sushi might be big in LA, but good luck selling it in
> > Dallas. Those Primanti sandwiches that Pittsburghers love
> > would be laughed at by New Yorkers used to traditional
> > overstuffed NY deli fare.
> >
> > Cousin Brucie is a NY legend who is just another voice
> > outside the five boroughs. If I'm running an oldies
> station
> > in Chicago, I hired John Landecker and Dck Biondi, neither
>
> > of whom means anything in Pittsburgh, where people think
> > Porky Chedwick invented oldies. If I'm running a station
> in
> > Pittsburgh, I probably can't play "The Rapper" often
> enough.
> > Everywhere else it's a bubblegum throwaway from a
> > long-forgotten one-shot group.
> >
> > Every market is different, every competitive situation is
> > different.
>
> You're wasting your time telling that to OldiesCat. He works
> in Detroit, so he is an expert on EVERY market.

Perhaps Oldiescat can hire Greg Gillispie and have him take his station down in flames, like he's taken EVERY station he has worked.

Mr. Music
 
3WS

Nice try (no get) on the "Greg" thing.

The ratings I'm quoting are CURRENT, today's most recent Arbitron ratings. He was there for a couple of years, if my memory serves me, and they are still Top 3 in a Top 25 market. I don't doubt he was a pain to work for, but that's a separate issue from the station's ratings performance- you can try and spin it any way you like, but the numbers don't lie.

>
> End of conversation Greg. I mean, Oldiescat.
>
> Mr. Music
>
 
I'm not attaching myself to anyone.

The only, ONLY thing I'm challenging is this myth that the (now) former PD brought 3WS' ratings to their lowest point in years- that is just not true.

Stick with the facts, boys.



> Well, I don't know why then he'd want to attach himself to
> someone who the radio community hates. Yes, even the Vps
> and directors.
>
>
> It'll just be the death of Oldiescat's radio career if
> people of importance read this thread and figure out who he
> is.
>
>
> Mr. Music
>
 
> Theres is a difference between a hard-ass programmer (one
> who knows what he's doing) and a lame-ass hard to work for
> programmer who didn't know what he was doing. The latter was
> Gillispie.
>

Remember why he was brought in...

K-Rock had just gone on the air with Howard, and CC was circling the wagons around the mothership (DVE). Gillespie had a hige Rock programming background; Labrozzi had just departed for Baltimore, so they had one open salary slot in the building. They gave Greg the 3WS and 970 PD titles, and had him focus on DVE for the first few weeks or months he was there.

But as Paul Harvey would say, now we know.... the REST of the story. Howard spit in Infinity's face despite their show of loyalty in replacing the CC markets he lost. K-rock never made a dent in DVE, 3WS will do fine with or without him, and we've all heard about what he's like to work with, so why keep him?

Sherri was on the same page with Labrozzi as far as what 3WS' direction should be, and there was some sentiment that she should have had the job in the first place when Dave left. So I'd look for a return to what they sounded like a while back, with the qualifier that oldies as a format is evolving right now anyway.

Additionally, the return of Penguins' hockey is an interesting factor. When they're good they help the station, but their last season was a big detriment to the numbers. Hopefully for all concerned they'll play well and interest will be high.<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>
 
Re: PD autonomy

I love how two of you out of radio(yeah mrmusic, you are OUT of radio like every other agency guy) have teamed up to take on a guy who still is in radio. For as bad as the station has been, as you claim, consider this.

Until hard #'s have been shown, you're all fools. Scoreboard!

mrmusic, are you sure that the reason your sales rep hated Greg was maybe he didn't buckle on every stupid attempt sales has to (BLEEP) out a station for the tiniest buck? Or do you believe sales people are the ones with the most integrity in the modern era of radio? I dare you to answer. It'll show your credibility from here on in on this board. BTW, Love your defense, "Who are you, Greg?" That's the sad reply from someone with no case. An answer given earlier in this thread might be the REAL reason he got axed.

radiorealist, your tired examples of what radio should be(in your mind) show how far away from the business you are. You remind me of my Professors trying to teach me radio being decades out of the biz. I'll tell you the same thing I told mine the last time they tried to tell me about the inside: You should ask more questions, and talk a lot less.

Go ahead and reply, the only thing you have in common with radio people is you love to hear yourself.

You love to hear yourself.

You love to hear yourself.

Read it three times, hope it sinks in.
 
> I'm not attaching myself to anyone.
>
> The only, ONLY thing I'm challenging is this myth that the
> (now) former PD brought 3WS' ratings to their lowest point
> in years- that is just not true.
>
> Stick with the facts, boys.

Then I suggest YOU re-read some facts, such as these insider facts about Mr. Gillespe posted by Mrmusic, from his post of 10/13/05 at 02:40 PM.

"He has even DETERRED new business. And, he has been able to sever ongoing business. Thanks to his arrogance has lost quite a few places of business that were always a staple on 3WS (one of which is one of my other clients, so I know firsthand) You call that doing a great job with the station?"

Maybe they do things differently in Detroit, but in Pittsburgh, ratings only have meaning insofar as they can be translated into sales. And manager who manages to pull ratings numbers yet simultaneously alienate advertisers who withdraw from the station is NOT making a positive accomplishment. Ratings are an important tool in an airtime sales staff's kit, but if those ratings aren't translated into sales success, then the ratings don't mean squat.

Of course, this is a moot argument, since the ratings have also been slipping. But the bottom line is that the important thing for a radio station is the bottom line. Gillespe did not increase the bottom line for 3WS, he reduced it. That's the only figure that matters.
 
Re: sorry,

> No, you're incorrect. They're 3rd ranked 25-54. For an
> oldies station in 2005, that is phenomenal.
>
> (DISCLAIMER: I'm not talking about the artistic merits of
> the station, ONLY their ratings performance, the measuring
> stick we're all heald up to in radio these days).

Funny, at every radio station I've ever been involved with, either as an employee, a vendor, a free-lance contractor, or a client, the only performance metric that really counted was revenue generated. Ratings were a means to that end, not the end itself.
 
Re: PD autonomy

> I love how two of you out of radio(yeah mrmusic, you are OUT
> of radio like every other agency guy) have teamed up to take
> on a guy who still is in radio. For as bad as the station
> has been, as you claim, consider this.
>
> Until hard #'s have been shown, you're all fools.
> Scoreboard!
>
> mrmusic, are you sure that the reason your sales rep hated
> Greg was maybe he didn't buckle on every stupid attempt
> sales has to (BLEEP) out a station for the tiniest buck? Or
> do you believe sales people are the ones with the most
> integrity in the modern era of radio? I dare you to answer.
> It'll show your credibility from here on in on this board.
> BTW, Love your defense, "Who are you, Greg?" That's the sad
> reply from someone with no case. An answer given earlier in
> this thread might be the REAL reason he got axed.

Dare me to answer? Who the hell are you to pose such a silly question or even say again about defense? Now, you're going off subject here. My ideas and thoughts on sales is not what's important. No, I do NOT think sales people have the most integrity in the modern area of radio. Never, ever said that. There are indeed a lot of great salespeople out there in radio. They are the ones who get it. Talking about sales people as you have posed is irrelevent.

No, my sales contacts over at Clear Channel were not bitter that Gillispie
Quite the contrary, he'd actually would allow a lot of their clients on the air in interviews. But, there were a lot of issues saleswise, that he messed up that affected the bottom line of 3WS.

As with any agency, I have contacts and relationships with people actually on the radio and in sales. So, I think I'm pretty hip to the goings on of radio today. And, couple that with my actual airwork and working at a radio station of yesteryear, I know what good radio should be. (yes, I am also on top of all the computers each radio station uses, and have experience on those systems, too) My experience with radio and programming will allow me to this day to at least do air work at any local station if I wanted.

Yirmumah, what allows you to once again bring up the old attack of us older folks and saying because we are not working in a radio station right now, that we're not qualified or have the right to an opinion? What are your qualifications? Let me guess, you push buttons at KISS?

One glaring mistake you have made. Greg Gillispie is NOT in radio. Hasn't been in radio for 18 years prior to the 3WS gig. And, certainly is not in it now.

Mr. Music
 
Re: 3WS

> Nice try (no get) on the "Greg" thing.
>
> The ratings I'm quoting are CURRENT, today's most recent
> Arbitron ratings. He was there for a couple of years, if my
> memory serves me, and they are still Top 3 in a Top 25
> market. I don't doubt he was a pain to work for, but that's
> a separate issue from the station's ratings performance- you
> can try and spin it any way you like, but the numbers don't
> lie.
>
> >
> > End of conversation Greg. I mean, Oldiescat.
> >
> > Mr. Music
> >
>

OldiesCat-

Okay, so you may not be Greg, but aligning yourself with one of the most hated men in (or should I say out) of radio is something that could taint your career if anybody of imporance reads these boards and figures out who you are Mr. Detroit. Word in radio spreads fast.

Gillispie was there for a little over a year, not two years as you state.

So, you are going on one book, albeit the latest, and not on sound, all the other low books since this man started? I will have to check out the Arbitron numbers myself. I really do not rememember that they were #3. That seems odd to me. If indeed 3WS is #3, then all the credit goes to the airstaff, not Gillispie. He just happened to be in the pd chair, but certainly not responsible for those good numbers.

Greg Gillispie is responsible for bringing 3WS to its lowest period with a lot of low books. (I know, you're going to say they had a #3). Bottom line, and this is the truth, he sunk that radio station and killed it.

Mr. Music

ps. If anyone else has access to the numbers, is Oldies Cat right on the ranking of 3WS at #3? I probably won't get to see the numbers til midweek and was wondering. Part-timer, do you have access to Arb books?
 
> > Theres is a difference between a hard-ass programmer (one
> > who knows what he's doing) and a lame-ass hard to work for
>
> > programmer who didn't know what he was doing. The latter
> was
> > Gillispie.
> >
>
> Remember why he was brought in...
>
> K-Rock had just gone on the air with Howard, and CC was
> circling the wagons around the mothership (DVE). Gillespie
> had a hige Rock programming background; Labrozzi had just
> departed for Baltimore, so they had one open salary slot in
> the building. They gave Greg the 3WS and 970 PD titles, and
> had him focus on DVE for the first few weeks or months he
> was there.
>
> But as Paul Harvey would say, now we know.... the REST of
> the story. Howard spit in Infinity's face despite their show
> of loyalty in replacing the CC markets he lost. K-rock never
> made a dent in DVE, 3WS will do fine with or without him,
> and we've all heard about what he's like to work with, so
> why keep him?
>
> Sherri was on the same page with Labrozzi as far as what
> 3WS' direction should be, and there was some sentiment that
> she should have had the job in the first place when Dave
> left. So I'd look for a return to what they sounded like a
> while back, with the qualifier that oldies as a format is
> evolving right now anyway.
>
> Additionally, the return of Penguins' hockey is an
> interesting factor. When they're good they help the station,
> but their last season was a big detriment to the numbers.
> Hopefully for all concerned they'll play well and interest
> will be high.

Part-timer,

Sheri has a lot of work cut out for her digging that station out of the whole that Gillispie took them.

Do you have any access to Arb numbers? Is our friend OldiesCat correct in the stating that 3WS is #3?

Regardless, Gillispie was the worst thing that happened to Clear Channel Pittsburgh.

I was unaware of his focusing on DVE for the first few weeks. What did he do? I can't imagine that he added anything of value.

I've always thought and heard that he was brought on to 3WS, so that K-Rock couldn't hire him. Now that he's "free" do you think they will? Or, do you think they've seen what destruction he's done.

Thank you for your above insight and knowledge. It's good to actually read fact than being attacked on this site.

Mr. Music
 
> I'm not attaching myself to anyone.
>
> The only, ONLY thing I'm challenging is this myth that the
> (now) former PD brought 3WS' ratings to their lowest point
> in years- that is just not true.
>
> Stick with the facts, boys.
>

By the defending of Gillispie, you are attaching yourself to him.

The facts are as we've stated. There is no myth. He has brought down 3WS' ratings to their lowest in history.

Look at book by book by book. You will see it.

IF you were in the know, you would be aware that the higher ups knew of Gillispie's inadequecies and sublime programming very soon after he started. The ongoing low ratings and overall sound of the station are just two of the things that got him fired.

THOSE are the facts, OldiesCat. Don't even bother to respond, because you cannot argue with fact.

Mr. Music
 
off point

I don't disagree. BUT THAT WASN'T THE POINT- my original way-up-the-line post was taking issue with the statement that Greg Gillespe was responsible for "3WS' lowest ratings in years" when their current Arbitron ratings are as strong as ever.

I really wonder why that's so hard to understand.

>
> Funny, at every radio station I've ever been involved with,
> either as an employee, a vendor, a free-lance contractor, or
> a client, the only performance metric that really counted
> was revenue generated. Ratings were a means to that end, not
> the end itself.
>
 
3WS

I'm not aligning myself with anybody. What kind of kool-aid do you guys drink there? I never said he was a great guy, never said I like him, I never said he was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

ALL I took issue with was somebody's suggestion that 3WS' ratings were taking a nosedive because of Greg Gillespe. And it isn't true. Their 25-54 adult ratings have remained consistently high during his tenure there. We're not talking about where credit should or shouldn't go- I can say whether it was the PD because I don't know the man. You are now bordering on ridiculous with the "well, uh, even if the numbers WERE good, uh, gee, it had to the the airstaff not him" backpeddling. He might be a real prick, but 3WS is not broken, not sinking and not dead as you describe.

(and yes, the ratings info is accurate- I do have access to past and current Arbitron ratings, rankings, etc.)

>
> So, you are going on one book, albeit the latest, and not on
> sound, all the other low books since this man started? I
> will have to check out the Arbitron numbers myself. I
> really do not rememember that they were #3. That seems odd
> to me. If indeed 3WS is #3, then all the credit goes to the
> airstaff, not Gillispie. He just happened to be in the pd
> chair, but certainly not responsible for those good numbers.
>
>
> Greg Gillispie is responsible for bringing 3WS to its lowest
> period with a lot of low books. (I know, you're going to say
> they had a #3). Bottom line, and this is the truth, he sunk
> that radio station and killed it.
>
> Mr. Music
>
> ps. If anyone else has access to the numbers, is Oldies Cat
> right on the ranking of 3WS at #3? I probably won't get to
> see the numbers til midweek and was wondering. Part-timer,
> do you have access to Arb books?
>
 
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