3WS PD

[OldiesCat]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but you are factually WRONG. I did look at "the book", that's where I got my information. I do not and never have quoted ratings I can't back up (I only wish we could actually quote numbers here, but it's against RI policy).

I'm not arguing with "facts"- you guys are. You are factually wrong and the more and more you try to portray your opinion as "facts", the less effective your discussion is.

>
> The facts are as we've stated. There is no myth. He has
> brought down 3WS' ratings to their lowest in history.
>
> Look at book by book by book. You will see it.
>
> IF you were in the know, you would be aware that the higher
> ups knew of Gillispie's inadequecies and sublime programming
> very soon after he started. The ongoing low ratings and
> overall sound of the station are just two of the things that
> got him fired.
>
> THOSE are the facts, OldiesCat. Don't even bother to
> respond, because you cannot argue with fact.
>
> Mr. Music
>

 

[OldiesCat]

So now Mr. Music has "insider facts" about 3WS? Unless he was actually employed by CC and had daily dealings with the former PD, what he says is only anecdotal, 2nd or 3rd hand stories.

Mr Music- did you work at CC-Pittsburgh with Greg Gillespe? "A friend of mine did and said..." doesn't count.

 

[Part-timer]

> Part-timer,
>
> Sheri has a lot of work cut out for her digging that station
> out of the whole that Gillispie took them.
>
> Do you have any access to Arb numbers? Is our friend
> OldiesCat correct in the stating that 3WS is #3?
>
> Regardless, Gillispie was the worst thing that happened to
> Clear Channel Pittsburgh.
>
> I was unaware of his focusing on DVE for the first few
> weeks. What did he do? I can't imagine that he added
> anything of value.
>
> I've always thought and heard that he was brought on to 3WS,
> so that K-Rock couldn't hire him. Now that he's "free" do
> you think they will? Or, do you think they've seen what
> destruction he's done.
>
> Thank you for your above insight and knowledge. It's good
> to actually read fact than being attacked on this site.
>
> Mr. Music
>

I have no access to numbers, I don't work in the business anymore, just happen to have some close friends in high places (guys I used to work with...).

I was told that early on Gillispie sat in DVE's sales meetings every morning. Maybe factual, maybe not, but that's what I heard.

And I'd have to think the jury is out on K-Rock's future. Looking at the numbers Kiss has put together since the departure of the B, CHR may be ripe for an attack again. Then again, I'd filp to Smooth Jazz 93.7 the minute Howard's last shift ends, and go on to quietly bill a bundle of money. Infinity, with properties like the Oasis in Dallas and WSJT in Tampa, is really good at the format.
<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>

 

[OldiesCat]

now I get what's up

Thank you- you've confirmed what I've suspected all along. I'm mostly dealing with bitter, ex-radio wannabees who ride the sour grapes express at every opportunity.


> I love how two of you out of radio(yeah mrmusic, you are OUT
> of radio like every other agency guy) have teamed up to take
> on a guy who still is in radio. For as bad as the station
> has been, as you claim, consider this.
>
> Until hard #'s have been shown, you're all fools.
> Scoreboard!
>
> mrmusic, are you sure that the reason your sales rep hated
> Greg was maybe he didn't buckle on every stupid attempt
> sales has to (BLEEP) out a station for the tiniest buck? Or
> do you believe sales people are the ones with the most
> integrity in the modern era of radio? I dare you to answer.
> It'll show your credibility from here on in on this board.
> BTW, Love your defense, "Who are you, Greg?" That's the sad
> reply from someone with no case. An answer given earlier in
> this thread might be the REAL reason he got axed.
>
> radiorealist, your tired examples of what radio should be(in
> your mind) show how far away from the business you are. You
> remind me of my Professors trying to teach me radio being
> decades out of the biz. I'll tell you the same thing I told
> mine the last time they tried to tell me about the inside:
> You should ask more questions, and talk a lot less.
>
> Go ahead and reply, the only thing you have in common with
> radio people is you love to hear yourself.
>
> You love to hear yourself.
>
> You love to hear yourself.
>
> Read it three times, hope it sinks in.
>

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Re: PD autonomy

> Name me any successful major company that's not structured
> similarly But for the artistic radio community, it's like
> oversight and accountability are a bad thing. Imagine if
> every McDonald's franchise had total freedom- one Big Mac
> could be great and the next in another city or state could
> suck. Think of GM or Toyota building cars with plant
> managers having the "creative freedom" to make cars their
> way- we'd all be wrecking into trees.

You have just affirmed that Clear Channel is the McDonald's of radio. That's not a complement, necessarily.

But what I argued was that the station PDs are severely constricted. I'm not arguing for "creative freedom" (ok, but not that much)--I'm arguing for ANY FREEDOM from the likes of CC's Programming VPs. It's the cluster concept that steams me...you, oldies station, can't do too good because we have this other station to protect. That's constriction. When you can't compete, the product suffers. We're seeing that with 3WS and WMJI. They're still good stations, but they're not great, and they're not performing to their potential. Same with WDVE--good station, and does very well--but it has been (and can be) better.

This is a dual indictment of the cluster programming model and the constriction placed on PDs by it. A WMJI PD is such in name only; Van Dyke will be similar, unfortunately.

> Your characterization of guys like Romano and Metheny is
> exagerated, trust me.
> It's a popular myth that gets pounded over and over on this
> board (because that gives a lot of wannabees an easy out
> because they haven't made it or got fired or budgeted out of
> a gig) but it is just that- a myth.

I guess. But I've never heard anyone say anything to combat these "wanna be" claims or to prove the opposite, and I've heard it from more than one source who was "budgeted out". One guy was hardly a wanna-be--twenty-plus years at WGAR.

 

[Radio_Realist]

> So now Mr. Music has "insider facts" about 3WS? Unless he
> was actually employed by CC and had daily dealings with the
> former PD, what he says is only anecdotal, 2nd or 3rd hand
> stories.
>
> Mr Music- did you work at CC-Pittsburgh with Greg Gillespe?
> "A friend of mine did and said..." doesn't count.

In the business of radio airtime sales, there are two different groups of insiders. There are those who are "insiders" on the selling side, and there are those who are "insiders" on the BUTING side.

This concept may be difficult for a radio professional to grasp, but those who work on the customer side, those who actually BUY radio airtime, often have as good a track on what's going on as those on the SELLERS side.

I have met very few people who work on the buying side of any business who don't have very good knowledge of what's going on over on the sellers' side. Maybe if you worked at a higher level of management at whatever Detroit oldies station you call home, you'd be aware that your business depends on DOLLARS BILLED, not just on how many ears are tuned in.

As I said before, if you cannot translate your station's ratings share into billable airtime, then your ratings share doesn't mean diddle-squat.

Maybe you should consider that possibility that your customers might be among the people you should be paying attention to. That is, if you want your business to be successful. Ratings that don't translate into billings are as meaningless as the critcal acclaim of industry pundits. Neither means anything if you can't convert them into dollars.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Re: off point

> I don't disagree. BUT THAT WASN'T THE POINT- my original
> way-up-the-line post was taking issue with the statement
> that Greg Gillespe was responsible for "3WS' lowest ratings
> in years" when their current Arbitron ratings are as strong
> as ever.
>
> I really wonder why that's so hard to understand.

It's no harder than getting you to grasp that ratings don't mean didly-squat if they can't be leveraged into airtime billing. Ratings are a means to an end, not the end itself. If you can't turn your ratings into dollars, then you've failed.

Why can't you understand that?

Or do things work differently in Detroit? Does the station where you work pay you in ratings points instead of dollars?

How cares what the ratings of 3WS are as measured by Arbitron? What really counts is their ratings measured by Dunn & Bradstreet.

 

[Radio_Realist]

Re: now I get what's up

> Thank you- you've confirmed what I've suspected all along.
> I'm mostly dealing with bitter, ex-radio wannabees who ride
> the sour grapes express at every opportunity.

Why would going from making a small paycheck working on the selling side of the broadcast industry to making twice as much working on the buying side of the industry make anyone bitter? Speaking as someone who has worked on the selling side and the buying side of several industries, let me assure you, being the one doing the buying beats being the one doing the selling.

 

[OldiesCat]

off point

My understanding is their billing has not suffered, mostly due to the fact their ratings have been consistent throughout.

(and drop all the "how it works in Detroit" things- you're showing why you aren't in radio anymore)
>
> It's no harder than getting you to grasp that ratings don't
> mean didly-squat if they can't be leveraged into airtime
> billing. Ratings are a means to an end, not the end itself.
> If you can't turn your ratings into dollars, then you've
> failed.
>
> Why can't you understand that?
>
> Or do things work differently in Detroit? Does the station
> where you work pay you in ratings points instead of dollars?
>
>
> How cares what the ratings of 3WS are as measured by
> Arbitron? What really counts is their ratings measured by
> Dunn & Bradstreet.
>

 

[OldiesCat]

WWSW's billing has not faltered of late. I checked- they're as strong as ever.

Now what kind of spin are you going to try to pull out of your butt?

 

[Radio_Realist]

Re: off point

> My understanding is their billing has not suffered, mostly
> due to the fact their ratings have been consistent
> throughout.

And MY understanding is that their billing HAS suffered, based on contacts with people who are actually involved in the buying and selling of airtime here in Pittsburgh.

> (and drop all the "how it works in Detroit" things- you're
> showing why you aren't in radio anymore)

I made the decision to accept larger paychecks by switching from working in radio to working outside radio. More specifically, I decided I'd rather earn more money by being responsible for, among other things, buying airtime instead of trying to sell airtime.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

> And I'd have to think the jury is out on K-Rock's future.
> Looking at the numbers Kiss has put together since the
> departure of the B, CHR may be ripe for an attack again.
> Then again, I'd filp to Smooth Jazz 93.7 the minute Howard's
> last shift ends, and go on to quietly bill a bundle of
> money. Infinity, with properties like the Oasis in Dallas
> and WSJT in Tampa, is really good at the format.
>

That would probably (absolutely?) kill Lite Rock 92.9, and take some females away from both 3WS and Wish.

Brilliant move, in my opinion. The smooth jazz format was killed just on the cusp of a big resurgence of it the last time around (104.7).

>>>>>
Appropriate that post 1020 occur on this board--Happy 85th KDKA!<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Johnny Morgan on 10/16/05 09:06 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[OldiesCat]

billing

Unless you have a true inside connection, you haven't a clue (and you've proven over and over again you don't).

 

[Chowder]

Re: 3WS ratings

> You flunked the Evelyn Woodhead School Of Sped Redin'-

Also, comprention has in-creased wonder-fully. I recommend the Ev Evelyn Woodhead Sped Redin' course to all my friends out there, and you tell 'em you heard it here first on Roller Derby.

 

[Mrmusic]

> So now Mr. Music has "insider facts" about 3WS? Unless he
> was actually employed by CC and had daily dealings with the
> former PD, what he says is only anecdotal, 2nd or 3rd hand
> stories.
>
> Mr Music- did you work at CC-Pittsburgh with Greg Gillespe?
> "A friend of mine did and said..." doesn't count.
>

I work with people who work in the building. Since you don't know my background Mr. Know-it-all, I have worked and still have contact with those "higher ups" in programming. And, I am close enough to know the sentiment of what that building was like when Gillispie was employed there. No, not with their airstaff, but with their sales staff and other people of importance. I sat in a few meetings with my sales clients to have experienced this jerk.

I guess you haven't been in radio that long because if you were truly a radio person, you should know better than to attach yourself onto a loser. Anyone reading this thread would think the same as all of us who see you defending your "but, the latest book" crap. So you have at your disposal "the book". Big deal! Brag about something good.

This whole thread was indeed talking about what an (BLEEP) Greg Gillispie is, in addition to his horrible managing skills. Call it a warning. People need to know about this guy. Especially, if for some stupid reason, he is hired again in Pittsburgh (or anyhwere! Detroit maybe?) This man is not someone you'd want to work with or for.

As Radio Realist pointed out, this is Pittsburgh and not Detroit. People are decent. We don't need immoral people like Gillispie. Aside from character, monetarily, it's the bottom line. He ruined many upon many opportunities to put money into the building. He consistently deterred it and lost big clients. Bottom line MATTERS. Period. Not just one good book.

So, those are the reasons Mr. Gillispie was FIRED. Get that? FIRED.


Mr. Music

 

[OldiesCat]

Wait a minute- the discussion point I challenged you on wasn't whether Gillespie is a jerk or not. YOUR statement that I challenged was about ratings. You were wrong, and NOW it's "well, who cares about the ratings book". That was my entire point, but all you and Radio Unrealist can do is act like 5th grade girls by backtracking and trying to spin the conversation into something I'm not challenging you on.

And, for the 5th time, I am not "attaching" myself to this guy (you apparently have real reading issues). I could care less about him.

Now, for the 10th time- my point was with your incorrect, skewed and biased portrayal of WWSW's ratings. It is the ONLY point I was making at any time.

Geez. The earlier poster was right- a couple of you are indeed morons. Glad you're not in radio anymore.

>
> I guess you haven't been in radio that long because if you
> were truly a radio person, you should know better than to
> attach yourself onto a loser. Anyone reading this thread
> would think the same as all of us who see you defending your
> "but, the latest book" crap. So you have at your disposal
> "the book". Big deal! Brag about something good.
>
> This whole thread was indeed talking about what an (BLEEP)
> Greg Gillispie is, in addition to his horrible managing
> skills. Call it a warning. People need to know about this
> guy. Especially, if for some stupid reason, he is hired
> again in Pittsburgh (or anyhwere! Detroit maybe?) This man
> is not someone you'd want to work with or for.
>
> As Radio Realist pointed out, this is Pittsburgh and not
> Detroit. People are decent. We don't need immoral people
> like Gillispie. Aside from character, monetarily, it's the
> bottom line. He ruined many upon many opportunities to put
> money into the building. He consistently deterred it and
> lost big clients. Bottom line MATTERS. Period. Not just one
> good book.
>
> So, those are the reasons Mr. Gillispie was FIRED. Get that?
> FIRED.
>
>
> Mr. Music
>

 

[Mrmusic]

My original post was indeed about Gillispie's character, lack of programming expertise, people skills, stupidity, and everything else that got him fired. There was no spinning going on in any of my posts. Perhaps you need to go to a reading course as was suggested in one of these other posts.

You kept going on about ONE book. Radio REALIST and I both tried to tell you about the bottom line and the whole other factors of which a radio station needs to run smoothly and consistently.

YOU are the one who was a 5th grade girl backtracking and insisting that Gillispie had "the station on fire". Are you in Pittsburgh to hear it? Both Realist and I tried to tell you in posts what it is truly like to listen to the station. Stop your old fart insinuations. Both Realist and I could probably manage a radio station better than you hands down because of our life experience. The sad part about this forum is that a lot of you younger guys are so bitter and unwilling to learn from us older ones. Such a shame, because you could be a better person if you weren't so bitter and learned acceptance.

OldiesCat, stay on your Detroit forum. Your immaturity and lack of insight to learn or spread your wisdom, however small that may be, are not needed or welcome here. Yes, I have that authority. I saw that others have written the same to you in past posts, so I guess I'm in the majority.


You my friend take the cake! Anyone who read this thread can certainly see you sticking up for that former radio jerk. Calling all of us who are sane, "morons", is another thing an immature and inexperienced person does. Don't try to diffuse your mistake in what everyone can read as you defending this man. Just by stating in your original post (of which you had no knowledge of went on behind the scenes)that he was doing a great job was a huge exaggeration and statement that you didn't have the correct facts. It attached you onto him. Everyone else here was trying to tell you how wrong you were. Perhaps you're scared that in all my warnings to you on this, that "someone of importance" will note the same?


As far as this thread is concerned, it's CLOSED. As I have stated before Gillispie was FIRED for both personal and professional reasons.

Mr. Music

 

[OldiesCat]

Again, you can't read. I never said "one book"- I always addressed their ratings over the past couple of years. He may have been the biggest a-hole on Earth, but 3WS' ratings during his tenture have been as hot as ever (despite you guy' insistence otherwise). I take back nothing factual I've said about the performance of 3WS.

And if you and UnRealist are so great at programming theory and application, why are you out of radio? It's always a kick to see people out of radio (for Lord knows what reasons) act like they still know better than those in the trenches every day. Either back it up by doing it or shut up about it.

(BTW- I've been doing winning radio for over 25 years).


> You kept going on about ONE book. Radio REALIST and I both
> tried to tell you about the bottom line and the whole other
> factors of which a radio station needs to run smoothly and
> consistently.
>
> YOU are the one who was a 5th grade girl backtracking and
> insisting that Gillispie had "the station on fire". Are you
> in Pittsburgh to hear it? Both Realist and I tried to tell
> you in posts what it is truly like to listen to the station.
> Stop your old fart insinuations. Both Realist and I could
> probably manage a radio station better than you hands down
> because of our life experience. The sad part about this
> forum is that a lot of you younger guys are so bitter and
> unwilling to learn from us older ones. Such a shame,
> because you could be a better person if you weren't so
> bitter and learned acceptance.
>
> OldiesCat, stay on your Detroit forum. Your immaturity and
> lack of insight to learn or spread your wisdom, however
> small that may be, are not needed or welcome here. Yes, I
> have that authority. I saw that others have written the same
> to you in past posts, so I guess I'm in the majority.
>
>
> You my friend take the cake! Anyone who read this thread can
> certainly see you sticking up for that former radio jerk.
> Calling all of us who are sane, "morons", is another thing
> an immature and inexperienced person does. Don't try to
> diffuse your mistake in what everyone can read as you
> defending this man. Just by stating in your original post
> (of which you had no knowledge of went on behind the
> scenes)that he was doing a great job was a huge exaggeration
> and statement that you didn't have the correct facts. It
> attached you onto him. Everyone else here was trying to
> tell you how wrong you were. Perhaps you're scared that in
> all my warnings to you on this, that "someone of importance"
> will note the same?
>
>
> As far as this thread is concerned, it's CLOSED. As I have
> stated before Gillispie was FIRED for both personal and
> professional reasons.
>
> Mr. Music
>

 

[Radio_Realist]

> And if you and UnRealist are so great at programming theory
> and application, why are you out of radio?

I can't speak for Mrmusic, but I make more money and have fewer problems working on the periphery of radio. I still deal with radio stations, but I also deal with newspapers, TV stations, billboard companies, trade show booth companies, and a plethora of other sales, marketing, and advertising people. And, I find that as the various media go, radio is becoming more and more irrelevant. If I didn't enjoy listening to it (sometimes), I wouldn't care about it at all.

As a medium for selling products to the public, people like you making radio as useless as mass market magazines are now.

 

[OldiesCat]

true wannabe

So it's:

a) just about the money (which you refer to all the time, though I doubt
you're swimming in dough as you attempt to portray).
b) you didn't have what it takes to rise up and be a leader and a problem solver (vs. being a bystander who whines about it).

We see. Crystal clear.

> > And if you and UnRealist are so great at programming
> theory and application, why are you out of radio?
>
> I can't speak for Mrmusic, but I make more money and have
> fewer problems working on the periphery of radio. I still
> deal with radio stations, but I also deal with newspapers,
> TV stations, billboard companies, trade show booth
> companies, and a plethora of other sales, marketing, and
> advertising people. And, I find that as the various media
> go, radio is becoming more and more irrelevant. If I didn't
> enjoy listening to it (sometimes), I wouldn't care about it
> at all.