3WS has a slogan of we play your greatest hits. Your greatest hits from my greatest hits may be different. So the question is would you consider a your greatest hits format an oldies format?
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
3WS Question
- Thread starter toddjammin
- Start date
> 3WS has a slogan of we play your greatest hits. Your
> greatest hits from my greatest hits may be different. So
> the question is would you consider a your greatest hits
> format an oldies format?
>
Yea i would consider it a oldies format.<P ID="signature">______________
Bobfm rocks down the house give me an amen.</P>
> greatest hits from my greatest hits may be different. So
> the question is would you consider a your greatest hits
> format an oldies format?
>
Yea i would consider it a oldies format.<P ID="signature">______________
Bobfm rocks down the house give me an amen.</P>
> > 3WS has a slogan of we play your greatest hits. Your
> > greatest hits from my greatest hits may be different. So
> > the question is would you consider a your greatest hits
> > format an oldies format?
> >
>
>
> Yea i would consider it a oldies format.
>
<font face="times new roman" size="3" color="660033">
Affirmative. "Greatest Hits" is the flavor of the day for Oldies stations that are in transition, moving from playing little or no 50s at all, to playing 60s, more 70s and even some select 80s and 90s songs. Oldies is definitive, 50s and 60s; yet Greatest Hits and Classic Hits might be defined a bit more broadly, incorporating 80s and perhaps even 90s a bit more tactfully. Evolution?</font>
> > greatest hits from my greatest hits may be different. So
> > the question is would you consider a your greatest hits
> > format an oldies format?
> >
>
>
> Yea i would consider it a oldies format.
>
<font face="times new roman" size="3" color="660033">
Affirmative. "Greatest Hits" is the flavor of the day for Oldies stations that are in transition, moving from playing little or no 50s at all, to playing 60s, more 70s and even some select 80s and 90s songs. Oldies is definitive, 50s and 60s; yet Greatest Hits and Classic Hits might be defined a bit more broadly, incorporating 80s and perhaps even 90s a bit more tactfully. Evolution?</font>
O
OldiesCat
Guest
works for me.
>
> Affirmative. "Greatest Hits" is the flavor of the day for
> Oldies stations that are in transition, moving from playing
> little or no 50s at all, to playing 60s, more 70s and even
> some select 80s and 90s songs. Oldies is definitive, 50s and
> 60s; yet Greatest Hits and Classic Hits might be defined a
> bit more broadly, incorporating 80s and perhaps even 90s a
> bit more tactfully. Evolution?
>
>
> Affirmative. "Greatest Hits" is the flavor of the day for
> Oldies stations that are in transition, moving from playing
> little or no 50s at all, to playing 60s, more 70s and even
> some select 80s and 90s songs. Oldies is definitive, 50s and
> 60s; yet Greatest Hits and Classic Hits might be defined a
> bit more broadly, incorporating 80s and perhaps even 90s a
> bit more tactfully. Evolution?
>
O
OldiesCat
Guest
works for me, too.
>
> Affirmative. "Greatest Hits" is the flavor of the day for
> Oldies stations that are in transition, moving from playing
> little or no 50s at all, to playing 60s, more 70s and even
> some select 80s and 90s songs. Oldies is definitive, 50s and
> 60s; yet Greatest Hits and Classic Hits might be defined a
> bit more broadly, incorporating 80s and perhaps even 90s a
> bit more tactfully. Evolution?
>
>
> Affirmative. "Greatest Hits" is the flavor of the day for
> Oldies stations that are in transition, moving from playing
> little or no 50s at all, to playing 60s, more 70s and even
> some select 80s and 90s songs. Oldies is definitive, 50s and
> 60s; yet Greatest Hits and Classic Hits might be defined a
> bit more broadly, incorporating 80s and perhaps even 90s a
> bit more tactfully. Evolution?
>
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
First, I'm not trying to be agumentative here. But this does illustrate the growing disconnect that exists between radio professionals and the listeners that those professionals seek to attract to their stations. By capitalizing those various descriptors, you make them into proper nouns that are part of your particular industry jargon. And, there's nothing wrong with an industry having it's own peculiar jargon.
But to those of us who listen to the radio, we still hear those words in lower case. So to us listeners, "greatest hits" describes those songs which had the most chart success for any particular artist or act. It can also describe all of the songs that were hits that were our personal favorites.
Likewise, "Oldies" does indeed mean songs from the 50's and 60's to a radio professional. But to us listeners, "oldies" (in lower case) means any song that isn't new any more.
And while "Classic Hits" means just what you say it means, "classic hits" means "hit songs from the past that are still popular today".
If you ever wonder why you keep promoting your station as "Greatest Hits", "Oldies", or "Classic Hits" but you don't attract as many listeners as you think you should, maybe you should try speaking in the language that your listeners understand instead of using insider industry jargon.
> works for me, too.
> >
> > Affirmative. "Greatest Hits" is the flavor of the day for
> > Oldies stations that are in transition, moving from
> playing
> > little or no 50s at all, to playing 60s, more 70s and even
>
> > some select 80s and 90s songs. Oldies is definitive, 50s
> and
> > 60s; yet Greatest Hits and Classic Hits might be defined a
>
> > bit more broadly, incorporating 80s and perhaps even 90s a
>
> > bit more tactfully. Evolution?
> >
>
But to those of us who listen to the radio, we still hear those words in lower case. So to us listeners, "greatest hits" describes those songs which had the most chart success for any particular artist or act. It can also describe all of the songs that were hits that were our personal favorites.
Likewise, "Oldies" does indeed mean songs from the 50's and 60's to a radio professional. But to us listeners, "oldies" (in lower case) means any song that isn't new any more.
And while "Classic Hits" means just what you say it means, "classic hits" means "hit songs from the past that are still popular today".
If you ever wonder why you keep promoting your station as "Greatest Hits", "Oldies", or "Classic Hits" but you don't attract as many listeners as you think you should, maybe you should try speaking in the language that your listeners understand instead of using insider industry jargon.
> works for me, too.
> >
> > Affirmative. "Greatest Hits" is the flavor of the day for
> > Oldies stations that are in transition, moving from
> playing
> > little or no 50s at all, to playing 60s, more 70s and even
>
> > some select 80s and 90s songs. Oldies is definitive, 50s
> and
> > 60s; yet Greatest Hits and Classic Hits might be defined a
>
> > bit more broadly, incorporating 80s and perhaps even 90s a
>
> > bit more tactfully. Evolution?
> >
>
P
Part-timer
Guest
> If you ever wonder why you keep promoting your station as
> "Greatest Hits", "Oldies", or "Classic Hits" but you don't
> attract as many listeners as you think you should, maybe you
> should try speaking in the language that your listeners
> understand instead of using insider industry jargon.
>
The reason is that in research and focus groups, 25-54s say they don't like "oldies" and wouldn't listen to a station that played "oldies".
<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>
> "Greatest Hits", "Oldies", or "Classic Hits" but you don't
> attract as many listeners as you think you should, maybe you
> should try speaking in the language that your listeners
> understand instead of using insider industry jargon.
>
The reason is that in research and focus groups, 25-54s say they don't like "oldies" and wouldn't listen to a station that played "oldies".
<P ID="signature">______________
"With God as my witness, I could have sworn turkeys could fly."</P>
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
And, times change!
> > If you ever wonder why you keep promoting your station as
> > "Greatest Hits", "Oldies", or "Classic Hits" but you don't
>
> > attract as many listeners as you think you should, maybe
> you
> > should try speaking in the language that your listeners
> > understand instead of using insider industry jargon.
> >
>
> The reason is that in research and focus groups, 25-54s say
> they don't like "oldies" and wouldn't listen to a station
> that played "oldies".
>
I'm not saying that you have to use the word "oldies". I'm saying that just because the official radio jargon term might be "Classic Hits", you should be willing to call what you play "The really good stuff from happier times" or "The music that was playing when you first got laid" or some other descriptor that lets the audience know what to expect on your station, and that makes what you're playing sound like it's something the listener wants to hear.
After I wrote that earlier post, it dawned on me that to some people "classic hits" might refer to classical music, like Beethoven's Fifth or the 1812 Overture.
But what I find really interesting is in the current issue of Rolling Stone.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/9257498/teens_save_classic_rock
This quote says a lot: "Teen listenership at New York's Q104.3, the nation's largest classic-rock station, has jumped twenty percent since fall 2002. 'It really started in the past five years,' says Q104.3 DJ Maria Milito. 'You get these boys calling to request Hendrix whose voices haven't changed yet.'"
So maybe listeners don't like hearing the music that they like referred to as "Oldies". Fine. But it seems that an increasing number of very young listeners like really old music. If that's a trend and not a passing fad, when those 12 to 17 year olds grow into 22 to 27 year olds, the station that hooked 'em when they were young stands a good chance of keeping them. If such a station is also doing well with older listeners as well, that bodes well for long-term success.
> > If you ever wonder why you keep promoting your station as
> > "Greatest Hits", "Oldies", or "Classic Hits" but you don't
>
> > attract as many listeners as you think you should, maybe
> you
> > should try speaking in the language that your listeners
> > understand instead of using insider industry jargon.
> >
>
> The reason is that in research and focus groups, 25-54s say
> they don't like "oldies" and wouldn't listen to a station
> that played "oldies".
>
I'm not saying that you have to use the word "oldies". I'm saying that just because the official radio jargon term might be "Classic Hits", you should be willing to call what you play "The really good stuff from happier times" or "The music that was playing when you first got laid" or some other descriptor that lets the audience know what to expect on your station, and that makes what you're playing sound like it's something the listener wants to hear.
After I wrote that earlier post, it dawned on me that to some people "classic hits" might refer to classical music, like Beethoven's Fifth or the 1812 Overture.
But what I find really interesting is in the current issue of Rolling Stone.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/9257498/teens_save_classic_rock
This quote says a lot: "Teen listenership at New York's Q104.3, the nation's largest classic-rock station, has jumped twenty percent since fall 2002. 'It really started in the past five years,' says Q104.3 DJ Maria Milito. 'You get these boys calling to request Hendrix whose voices haven't changed yet.'"
So maybe listeners don't like hearing the music that they like referred to as "Oldies". Fine. But it seems that an increasing number of very young listeners like really old music. If that's a trend and not a passing fad, when those 12 to 17 year olds grow into 22 to 27 year olds, the station that hooked 'em when they were young stands a good chance of keeping them. If such a station is also doing well with older listeners as well, that bodes well for long-term success.
> First, I'm not trying to be agumentative here. But this does
> illustrate the growing disconnect that exists between radio
> professionals and the listeners that those professionals
> seek to attract to their stations. By capitalizing those
> various descriptors, you make them into proper nouns that
> are part of your particular industry jargon. And, there's
> nothing wrong with an industry having it's own peculiar
> jargon.
Legitimate observation. The words were "capped" only to distinguish them, much like Album Oriented Rock, Active Rock and Adult Contemporary might be capitalized in trade publications (sometimes known as "cheerleading rags" or "industry fishwrap" [credit to Jim Rome.]) Clearly, the words, slogans and descriptors could be lower case. Even as proper nouns, readers and posters of the board have an understanding of the terminology.
> But to those of us who listen to the radio, we still hear
> those words in lower case. So to us listeners, "greatest
> hits" describes those songs which had the most chart success
> for any particular artist or act. It can also describe all
> of the songs that were hits that were our personal
> favorites.
True. Greatest hits could mean "I Can See For Miles" by The Who (top 10 in 1967) as much as it might mean "Reach Out I'll Be There" by the Four Tops (#1 in 1966.) Oldies, on the other hand might include the Four Tops but not the Who, because of sound, origin, tempo, artists/group, song intensity, etc. Or, it might include ALL songs from the 'Tops and only one or two songs ("Can't Explain") from the Bloody Who. From what I've observed and witnessed, the oldies purists (P1 listeners to oldies stations) seem to discriminate against British Invasion acts. "Bobby Vee is great, Peter and Gordon, not so." I dig oldies personally and have never drawn such a discriminatory distinction. I also prefer the term "classic" as a listener, whether it applies to hits or rock. "Since I Don't Have You" (Skyliners) and "I Want To hold Your Hand" (Beatles) have equal appeal to me. Both great songs. Both classics.
Inside and outside the walls, as a subsequent poster noted and as you note in the following paragraph, "Oldies"/"oldies" connotes music from 1955 to perhaps 1963. And as noted, focus groups and just plain ol' average radio listeners aged 55-64 who dig the music often prefer the term "oldies" as it applies to a genre of music from 55-63, e.g., Buddy Holly, Shirelles, Everly Brothers, Drifters, Skyliners and The King. Many a listener, in the 55-64 demo (to use the corresponding Arbitron and research subset) identifies with "oldies." But just as clearly, younger listeners, say 35-54 find the term unsettling or unappealing. Perhaps it's ageist to some people, but the distinction is factual. "Oldies" doesn't work as well with younger (i.e., 35-54)listeners, who identify and relate better to "classic" whether it's classic hits or classic rock. The same might be (subject to testing) applied to "greatest hits," as in "greatest hits of all time" or "Pittsburgh's greatest hits."
> Likewise, "Oldies" does indeed mean songs from the 50's and
> 60's to a radio professional. But to us listeners, "oldies"
> (in lower case) means any song that isn't new any more.
>
> And while "Classic Hits" means just what you say it means,
> "classic hits" means "hit songs from the past that are still
> popular today".
Affirmative. Songs like "We Are Family" have as much validity as say, "Satisfaction." Yet "We Are Family" probably wouldn't find its way into rotation at an oldies station while "Satisfaction" would. In a greatest hits or classic hits station, both songs are acceptable and are likely staples of the format, while the Skyliners' "Since I Don't Have You" is excluded from that rotation.
> If you ever wonder why you keep promoting your station as
> "Greatest Hits", "Oldies", or "Classic Hits" but you don't
> attract as many listeners as you think you should, maybe you
> should try speaking in the language that your listeners
> understand instead of using insider industry jargon.
I always thought a good slogan would be "We just play good freakin' music that most listeners between the ages of 35 and 64 really dig." Too long. Hell, it takes up 3 seconds on the intro, and that's without the call letters! As in law, journalism and writing, words are the tools of the trade. Pith counts for something. What's happening in many markets such as Pittsburgh (BTW, congrats on the win sin 'XL) and Buffalo is that "oldies" stations are employing different words (tools) and slogans to describe an evolving product that will attract younger (35-44) listeners. Oldies stations seem to won 55-64 year olds, they need to get more 35-44 year olds. I know you know all this stuff, I'm only stating it for the record.
Nobody that I know is getting any younger, but "old" isn't a word that people want to be connected with, especially Women, 35-54 and even 35-64. "Oldies" no longer carries the charm it may have had when so many oldies stations were launched in the mid and late 80's and the songs that were played were 10 to 30 years old. A 30 year old song back then was a hit in 55-58; these days it was a hit in 76! Hence, the Spencer Davis Group's superb "Gimme Some Lovin'" gives way to Steve Winwood's "While You See A Chance." Both "greatest hits" in my estimation, while only the former qualifies as an "oldie." The words "greatest hits" and "classic hits" aren't so much the industry's idea as they were responses to what listeners or consumers implied were accurate descriptors of the product.
Thanks for the time.
> illustrate the growing disconnect that exists between radio
> professionals and the listeners that those professionals
> seek to attract to their stations. By capitalizing those
> various descriptors, you make them into proper nouns that
> are part of your particular industry jargon. And, there's
> nothing wrong with an industry having it's own peculiar
> jargon.
Legitimate observation. The words were "capped" only to distinguish them, much like Album Oriented Rock, Active Rock and Adult Contemporary might be capitalized in trade publications (sometimes known as "cheerleading rags" or "industry fishwrap" [credit to Jim Rome.]) Clearly, the words, slogans and descriptors could be lower case. Even as proper nouns, readers and posters of the board have an understanding of the terminology.
> But to those of us who listen to the radio, we still hear
> those words in lower case. So to us listeners, "greatest
> hits" describes those songs which had the most chart success
> for any particular artist or act. It can also describe all
> of the songs that were hits that were our personal
> favorites.
True. Greatest hits could mean "I Can See For Miles" by The Who (top 10 in 1967) as much as it might mean "Reach Out I'll Be There" by the Four Tops (#1 in 1966.) Oldies, on the other hand might include the Four Tops but not the Who, because of sound, origin, tempo, artists/group, song intensity, etc. Or, it might include ALL songs from the 'Tops and only one or two songs ("Can't Explain") from the Bloody Who. From what I've observed and witnessed, the oldies purists (P1 listeners to oldies stations) seem to discriminate against British Invasion acts. "Bobby Vee is great, Peter and Gordon, not so." I dig oldies personally and have never drawn such a discriminatory distinction. I also prefer the term "classic" as a listener, whether it applies to hits or rock. "Since I Don't Have You" (Skyliners) and "I Want To hold Your Hand" (Beatles) have equal appeal to me. Both great songs. Both classics.
Inside and outside the walls, as a subsequent poster noted and as you note in the following paragraph, "Oldies"/"oldies" connotes music from 1955 to perhaps 1963. And as noted, focus groups and just plain ol' average radio listeners aged 55-64 who dig the music often prefer the term "oldies" as it applies to a genre of music from 55-63, e.g., Buddy Holly, Shirelles, Everly Brothers, Drifters, Skyliners and The King. Many a listener, in the 55-64 demo (to use the corresponding Arbitron and research subset) identifies with "oldies." But just as clearly, younger listeners, say 35-54 find the term unsettling or unappealing. Perhaps it's ageist to some people, but the distinction is factual. "Oldies" doesn't work as well with younger (i.e., 35-54)listeners, who identify and relate better to "classic" whether it's classic hits or classic rock. The same might be (subject to testing) applied to "greatest hits," as in "greatest hits of all time" or "Pittsburgh's greatest hits."
> Likewise, "Oldies" does indeed mean songs from the 50's and
> 60's to a radio professional. But to us listeners, "oldies"
> (in lower case) means any song that isn't new any more.
>
> And while "Classic Hits" means just what you say it means,
> "classic hits" means "hit songs from the past that are still
> popular today".
Affirmative. Songs like "We Are Family" have as much validity as say, "Satisfaction." Yet "We Are Family" probably wouldn't find its way into rotation at an oldies station while "Satisfaction" would. In a greatest hits or classic hits station, both songs are acceptable and are likely staples of the format, while the Skyliners' "Since I Don't Have You" is excluded from that rotation.
> If you ever wonder why you keep promoting your station as
> "Greatest Hits", "Oldies", or "Classic Hits" but you don't
> attract as many listeners as you think you should, maybe you
> should try speaking in the language that your listeners
> understand instead of using insider industry jargon.
I always thought a good slogan would be "We just play good freakin' music that most listeners between the ages of 35 and 64 really dig." Too long. Hell, it takes up 3 seconds on the intro, and that's without the call letters! As in law, journalism and writing, words are the tools of the trade. Pith counts for something. What's happening in many markets such as Pittsburgh (BTW, congrats on the win sin 'XL) and Buffalo is that "oldies" stations are employing different words (tools) and slogans to describe an evolving product that will attract younger (35-44) listeners. Oldies stations seem to won 55-64 year olds, they need to get more 35-44 year olds. I know you know all this stuff, I'm only stating it for the record.
Nobody that I know is getting any younger, but "old" isn't a word that people want to be connected with, especially Women, 35-54 and even 35-64. "Oldies" no longer carries the charm it may have had when so many oldies stations were launched in the mid and late 80's and the songs that were played were 10 to 30 years old. A 30 year old song back then was a hit in 55-58; these days it was a hit in 76! Hence, the Spencer Davis Group's superb "Gimme Some Lovin'" gives way to Steve Winwood's "While You See A Chance." Both "greatest hits" in my estimation, while only the former qualifies as an "oldie." The words "greatest hits" and "classic hits" aren't so much the industry's idea as they were responses to what listeners or consumers implied were accurate descriptors of the product.
Thanks for the time.
O
OldiesCat
Guest
3WS
why not a Who hit from the same era? What's so different between The Who, Stones, Doors? I think you're right about the bias against the Brits, main reason being many purists (listeners and Programmers) resent the British Invasion begun by the Beatles because that totally put the brakes on the last vestiges of '50s music. A bunch of really big acts stopped having hits the instant Beatlemania hit America (girl groups, teen idols, Drifters, Sam Cooke, Orbison, even Elvis to a degree).
If they were major Top 40 hits the audience now says they want to hear as part of an Oldies station's mix, we play the hits. I'd like my chances of success a lot better if I play "I Can See For Miles" vs. "Honey" by Bobby Goldsboro or some old and tired Bobby Vee hit. It's why it's vital to continue doing music research to stay on top of CURRENT MUSIC trends with oldies (because what worked 15-20 years ago cleary is not working today).
Chuck most of the pre-64 and focus on listeners 45-54 and get out of the standard, "old" oldies model. Satellite and Internet radio can get away with it- terrestrial radio cannot because you can't sell it enough to survive.
>
> True. Greatest hits could mean "I Can See For Miles" by The
> Who (top 10 in 1967) as much as it might mean "Reach Out
> I'll Be There" by the Four Tops (#1 in 1966.) Oldies, on the
> other hand might include the Four Tops but not the Who,
> because of sound, origin, tempo, artists/group, song
> intensity, etc. Or, it might include ALL songs from the
> 'Tops and only one or two songs ("Can't Explain") from the
> Bloody Who. From what I've observed and witnessed, the
> oldies purists (P1 listeners to oldies stations) seem to
> discriminate against British Invasion acts. "Bobby Vee is
> great, Peter and Gordon, not so." I dig oldies personally
> and have never drawn such a discriminatory distinction. I
> also prefer the term "classic" as a listener, whether it
> applies to hits or rock. "Since I Don't Have You"
> (Skyliners) and "I Want To hold Your Hand" (Beatles) have
> equal appeal to me. Both great songs. Both classics.
>
> Inside and outside the walls, as a subsequent poster noted
> and as you note in the following paragraph,
> "Oldies"/"oldies" connotes music from 1955 to perhaps 1963.
> And as noted, focus groups and just plain ol' average radio
> listeners aged 55-64 who dig the music often prefer the term
> "oldies" as it applies to a genre of music from 55-63, e.g.,
> Buddy Holly, Shirelles, Everly Brothers, Drifters, Skyliners
> and The King. Many a listener, in the 55-64 demo (to use the
> corresponding Arbitron and research subset) identifies with
> "oldies." But just as clearly, younger listeners, say 35-54
> find the term unsettling or unappealing. Perhaps it's ageist
> to some people, but the distinction is factual. "Oldies"
> doesn't work as well with younger (i.e., 35-54)listeners,
> who identify and relate better to "classic" whether it's
> classic hits or classic rock. The same might be (subject to
> testing) applied to "greatest hits," as in "greatest hits of
> all time" or "Pittsburgh's greatest hits."
>
> > Likewise, "Oldies" does indeed mean songs from the 50's
> and
> > 60's to a radio professional. But to us listeners,
> "oldies"
> > (in lower case) means any song that isn't new any more.
> >
> > And while "Classic Hits" means just what you say it means,
>
> > "classic hits" means "hit songs from the past that are
> still
> > popular today".
>
> Affirmative. Songs like "We Are Family" have as much
> validity as say, "Satisfaction." Yet "We Are Family"
> probably wouldn't find its way into rotation at an oldies
> station while "Satisfaction" would. In a greatest hits or
> classic hits station, both songs are acceptable and are
> likely staples of the format, while the Skyliners' "Since I
> Don't Have You" is excluded from that rotation.
>
> > If you ever wonder why you keep promoting your station as
> > "Greatest Hits", "Oldies", or "Classic Hits" but you don't
>
> > attract as many listeners as you think you should, maybe
> you
> > should try speaking in the language that your listeners
> > understand instead of using insider industry jargon.
>
> I always thought a good slogan would be "We just play good
> freakin' music that most listeners between the ages of 35
> and 64 really dig." Too long. Hell, it takes up 3 seconds on
> the intro, and that's without the call letters! As in law,
> journalism and writing, words are the tools of the trade.
> Pith counts for something. What's happening in many markets
> such as Pittsburgh (BTW, congrats on the win sin 'XL) and
> Buffalo is that "oldies" stations are employing different
> words (tools) and slogans to describe an evolving product
> that will attract younger (35-44) listeners. Oldies stations
> seem to won 55-64 year olds, they need to get more 35-44
> year olds. I know you know all this stuff, I'm only stating
> it for the record.
>
> Nobody that I know is getting any younger, but "old" isn't a
> word that people want to be connected with, especially
> Women, 35-54 and even 35-64. "Oldies" no longer carries the
> charm it may have had when so many oldies stations were
> launched in the mid and late 80's and the songs that were
> played were 10 to 30 years old. A 30 year old song back then
> was a hit in 55-58; these days it was a hit in 76! Hence,
> the Spencer Davis Group's superb "Gimme Some Lovin'" gives
> way to Steve Winwood's "While You See A Chance." Both
> "greatest hits" in my estimation, while only the former
> qualifies as an "oldie." The words "greatest hits" and
> "classic hits" aren't so much the industry's idea as they
> were responses to what listeners or consumers implied were
> accurate descriptors of the product.
>
> Thanks for the time.
>
why not a Who hit from the same era? What's so different between The Who, Stones, Doors? I think you're right about the bias against the Brits, main reason being many purists (listeners and Programmers) resent the British Invasion begun by the Beatles because that totally put the brakes on the last vestiges of '50s music. A bunch of really big acts stopped having hits the instant Beatlemania hit America (girl groups, teen idols, Drifters, Sam Cooke, Orbison, even Elvis to a degree).
If they were major Top 40 hits the audience now says they want to hear as part of an Oldies station's mix, we play the hits. I'd like my chances of success a lot better if I play "I Can See For Miles" vs. "Honey" by Bobby Goldsboro or some old and tired Bobby Vee hit. It's why it's vital to continue doing music research to stay on top of CURRENT MUSIC trends with oldies (because what worked 15-20 years ago cleary is not working today).
Chuck most of the pre-64 and focus on listeners 45-54 and get out of the standard, "old" oldies model. Satellite and Internet radio can get away with it- terrestrial radio cannot because you can't sell it enough to survive.
>
> True. Greatest hits could mean "I Can See For Miles" by The
> Who (top 10 in 1967) as much as it might mean "Reach Out
> I'll Be There" by the Four Tops (#1 in 1966.) Oldies, on the
> other hand might include the Four Tops but not the Who,
> because of sound, origin, tempo, artists/group, song
> intensity, etc. Or, it might include ALL songs from the
> 'Tops and only one or two songs ("Can't Explain") from the
> Bloody Who. From what I've observed and witnessed, the
> oldies purists (P1 listeners to oldies stations) seem to
> discriminate against British Invasion acts. "Bobby Vee is
> great, Peter and Gordon, not so." I dig oldies personally
> and have never drawn such a discriminatory distinction. I
> also prefer the term "classic" as a listener, whether it
> applies to hits or rock. "Since I Don't Have You"
> (Skyliners) and "I Want To hold Your Hand" (Beatles) have
> equal appeal to me. Both great songs. Both classics.
>
> Inside and outside the walls, as a subsequent poster noted
> and as you note in the following paragraph,
> "Oldies"/"oldies" connotes music from 1955 to perhaps 1963.
> And as noted, focus groups and just plain ol' average radio
> listeners aged 55-64 who dig the music often prefer the term
> "oldies" as it applies to a genre of music from 55-63, e.g.,
> Buddy Holly, Shirelles, Everly Brothers, Drifters, Skyliners
> and The King. Many a listener, in the 55-64 demo (to use the
> corresponding Arbitron and research subset) identifies with
> "oldies." But just as clearly, younger listeners, say 35-54
> find the term unsettling or unappealing. Perhaps it's ageist
> to some people, but the distinction is factual. "Oldies"
> doesn't work as well with younger (i.e., 35-54)listeners,
> who identify and relate better to "classic" whether it's
> classic hits or classic rock. The same might be (subject to
> testing) applied to "greatest hits," as in "greatest hits of
> all time" or "Pittsburgh's greatest hits."
>
> > Likewise, "Oldies" does indeed mean songs from the 50's
> and
> > 60's to a radio professional. But to us listeners,
> "oldies"
> > (in lower case) means any song that isn't new any more.
> >
> > And while "Classic Hits" means just what you say it means,
>
> > "classic hits" means "hit songs from the past that are
> still
> > popular today".
>
> Affirmative. Songs like "We Are Family" have as much
> validity as say, "Satisfaction." Yet "We Are Family"
> probably wouldn't find its way into rotation at an oldies
> station while "Satisfaction" would. In a greatest hits or
> classic hits station, both songs are acceptable and are
> likely staples of the format, while the Skyliners' "Since I
> Don't Have You" is excluded from that rotation.
>
> > If you ever wonder why you keep promoting your station as
> > "Greatest Hits", "Oldies", or "Classic Hits" but you don't
>
> > attract as many listeners as you think you should, maybe
> you
> > should try speaking in the language that your listeners
> > understand instead of using insider industry jargon.
>
> I always thought a good slogan would be "We just play good
> freakin' music that most listeners between the ages of 35
> and 64 really dig." Too long. Hell, it takes up 3 seconds on
> the intro, and that's without the call letters! As in law,
> journalism and writing, words are the tools of the trade.
> Pith counts for something. What's happening in many markets
> such as Pittsburgh (BTW, congrats on the win sin 'XL) and
> Buffalo is that "oldies" stations are employing different
> words (tools) and slogans to describe an evolving product
> that will attract younger (35-44) listeners. Oldies stations
> seem to won 55-64 year olds, they need to get more 35-44
> year olds. I know you know all this stuff, I'm only stating
> it for the record.
>
> Nobody that I know is getting any younger, but "old" isn't a
> word that people want to be connected with, especially
> Women, 35-54 and even 35-64. "Oldies" no longer carries the
> charm it may have had when so many oldies stations were
> launched in the mid and late 80's and the songs that were
> played were 10 to 30 years old. A 30 year old song back then
> was a hit in 55-58; these days it was a hit in 76! Hence,
> the Spencer Davis Group's superb "Gimme Some Lovin'" gives
> way to Steve Winwood's "While You See A Chance." Both
> "greatest hits" in my estimation, while only the former
> qualifies as an "oldie." The words "greatest hits" and
> "classic hits" aren't so much the industry's idea as they
> were responses to what listeners or consumers implied were
> accurate descriptors of the product.
>
> Thanks for the time.
>
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Oldies
Correct- the don't consider the brand of music termed Oldies to be "their" music.
However, 25-54s are not tested for this. It's WAY too wide an age range. No 25, 30 or even 35 year old has much interest in 60s or even much 70s music. Likely 45-54s are polled (at least, if you want accurate answers).
If you think about this, somebody that's 40 years old today was born in 1966, meaning they graduated High School around 1984- that puts their music center between 1979-1988 or so (from 15 yrs old until about the time they got out of college). There is almost NOTHING for these people on an Oldies station that plays much 60s music at all.
>
> The reason is that in research and focus groups, 25-54s say
> they don't like "oldies" and wouldn't listen to a station
> that played "oldies".
>
Correct- the don't consider the brand of music termed Oldies to be "their" music.
However, 25-54s are not tested for this. It's WAY too wide an age range. No 25, 30 or even 35 year old has much interest in 60s or even much 70s music. Likely 45-54s are polled (at least, if you want accurate answers).
If you think about this, somebody that's 40 years old today was born in 1966, meaning they graduated High School around 1984- that puts their music center between 1979-1988 or so (from 15 yrs old until about the time they got out of college). There is almost NOTHING for these people on an Oldies station that plays much 60s music at all.
>
> The reason is that in research and focus groups, 25-54s say
> they don't like "oldies" and wouldn't listen to a station
> that played "oldies".
>
Re: Oldies
The biggest reason for burying the identifier "Oldies" is agencies. Oldies demos are a tough enough sell without having the name thrown in their faces as reinforcement. No matter what you call 3WS, listeners are going to identify it as oldies.
Your "music center" is 'way too limited. Kids get into popular music from the time they're 10, at the latest, so you're lopping off five important years there. In fact, music probably matters more to a person in those years because you don't have a lot of other things to think about, aside from homework.
One reason oldies stations have been blown up (WCBS-FM/New York being the most prominent example) is you can't serve both ends of the demo scale. An old Herman's Hermits record doesn't matter to someone who grew up in the '70s and '80s, yet the "newer" stuff isn't necessarily going to snag the "vintage" listener, either. So you hope for a compromise, knowing that the older listeners will be so disenfranchised from any other music format that they'll stick with you. They may hurt the demos, but they keep the overall share up.
With their adjustments, 3WS now sounds like WTAE did in the late 70s, its final throes as a music station with some clout.
> Correct- the don't consider the brand of music termed Oldies
> to be "their" music.
>
> However, 25-54s are not tested for this. It's WAY too wide
> an age range. No 25, 30 or even 35 year old has much
> interest in 60s or even much 70s music. Likely 45-54s are
> polled (at least, if you want accurate answers).
>
> If you think about this, somebody that's 40 years old today
> was born in 1966, meaning they graduated High School around
> 1984- that puts their music center between 1979-1988 or so
> (from 15 yrs old until about the time they got out of
> college). There is almost NOTHING for these people on an
> Oldies station that plays much 60s music at all.
> >
> > The reason is that in research and focus groups, 25-54s
> say
> > they don't like "oldies" and wouldn't listen to a station
> > that played "oldies".
> >
>
The biggest reason for burying the identifier "Oldies" is agencies. Oldies demos are a tough enough sell without having the name thrown in their faces as reinforcement. No matter what you call 3WS, listeners are going to identify it as oldies.
Your "music center" is 'way too limited. Kids get into popular music from the time they're 10, at the latest, so you're lopping off five important years there. In fact, music probably matters more to a person in those years because you don't have a lot of other things to think about, aside from homework.
One reason oldies stations have been blown up (WCBS-FM/New York being the most prominent example) is you can't serve both ends of the demo scale. An old Herman's Hermits record doesn't matter to someone who grew up in the '70s and '80s, yet the "newer" stuff isn't necessarily going to snag the "vintage" listener, either. So you hope for a compromise, knowing that the older listeners will be so disenfranchised from any other music format that they'll stick with you. They may hurt the demos, but they keep the overall share up.
With their adjustments, 3WS now sounds like WTAE did in the late 70s, its final throes as a music station with some clout.
> Correct- the don't consider the brand of music termed Oldies
> to be "their" music.
>
> However, 25-54s are not tested for this. It's WAY too wide
> an age range. No 25, 30 or even 35 year old has much
> interest in 60s or even much 70s music. Likely 45-54s are
> polled (at least, if you want accurate answers).
>
> If you think about this, somebody that's 40 years old today
> was born in 1966, meaning they graduated High School around
> 1984- that puts their music center between 1979-1988 or so
> (from 15 yrs old until about the time they got out of
> college). There is almost NOTHING for these people on an
> Oldies station that plays much 60s music at all.
> >
> > The reason is that in research and focus groups, 25-54s
> say
> > they don't like "oldies" and wouldn't listen to a station
> > that played "oldies".
> >
>
O
OldiesCat
Guest
Re: Oldies
***TRUE. Plus, from a branding perspective, "Oldies" is a brand name that means (for the most part) Sixties music. It was so well branded for about 20 years that stations who want to evolve away from the '50s/early '60s into the '70s MUST drop the Oldies brand name if they want to be credible (to the 40-somethings) that they are NOT a 50s/doo wop machine.
> The biggest reason for burying the identifier "Oldies" is
> agencies. Oldies demos are a tough enough sell without
> having the name thrown in their faces as reinforcement. No
> matter what you call 3WS, listeners are going to identify it
> as oldies.
***NOT MY MUSIC CENTER- it's common knowledge that THE MOST INFLUENTIAL music and memories come from the years when you started driving & dating up into the first couple of years in college. There are a lot of songs I know from when I was really young but what I consider "my music" (the songs that evoke the most profound memories) come from about 15 years old into my early 20s. And, for those who listen to library-based stations (oldies, classic rock, etc.) that is what THEY have been saying for years.
> Your "music center" is 'way too limited. Kids get into
> popular music from the time they're 10, at the latest, so
> you're lopping off five important years there. In fact,
> music probably matters more to a person in those years
> because you don't have a lot of other things to think about,
> aside from homework.
***TRUE. There's mid/late '60s music that has credibility with those in their mid/late 40s (Beatles, Stones, Beach Boys, Motown, Mamas & Papas, etc.) and many who do not(Gary & Playboys, Hermits), the acts that may have had post-'65 hits but have that early '60s sound and feel- very sweet and innocent and poppy. Lightweight songs that are not good fits with the credible late '60s and early/mid '70s hits.
> One reason oldies stations have been blown up (WCBS-FM/New
> York being the most prominent example) is you can't serve
> both ends of the demo scale. An old Herman's Hermits record
> doesn't matter to someone who grew up in the '70s and '80s,
> yet the "newer" stuff isn't necessarily going to snag the
> "vintage" listener, either. So you hope for a compromise,
> knowing that the older listeners will be so disenfranchised
> from any other music format that they'll stick with you.
> They may hurt the demos, but they keep the overall share up.
>
>
> With their adjustments, 3WS now sounds like WTAE did in the
> late 70s, its final throes as a music station with some
> clout.
>
>
>
>
> > Correct- the don't consider the brand of music termed
> Oldies
> > to be "their" music.
> >
> > However, 25-54s are not tested for this. It's WAY too
> wide
> > an age range. No 25, 30 or even 35 year old has much
> > interest in 60s or even much 70s music. Likely 45-54s are
>
> > polled (at least, if you want accurate answers).
> >
> > If you think about this, somebody that's 40 years old
> today
> > was born in 1966, meaning they graduated High School
> around
> > 1984- that puts their music center between 1979-1988 or so
>
> > (from 15 yrs old until about the time they got out of
> > college). There is almost NOTHING for these people on an
> > Oldies station that plays much 60s music at all.
> > >
> > > The reason is that in research and focus groups, 25-54s
> > say
> > > they don't like "oldies" and wouldn't listen to a
> station
> > > that played "oldies".
> > >
> >
>
***TRUE. Plus, from a branding perspective, "Oldies" is a brand name that means (for the most part) Sixties music. It was so well branded for about 20 years that stations who want to evolve away from the '50s/early '60s into the '70s MUST drop the Oldies brand name if they want to be credible (to the 40-somethings) that they are NOT a 50s/doo wop machine.
> The biggest reason for burying the identifier "Oldies" is
> agencies. Oldies demos are a tough enough sell without
> having the name thrown in their faces as reinforcement. No
> matter what you call 3WS, listeners are going to identify it
> as oldies.
***NOT MY MUSIC CENTER- it's common knowledge that THE MOST INFLUENTIAL music and memories come from the years when you started driving & dating up into the first couple of years in college. There are a lot of songs I know from when I was really young but what I consider "my music" (the songs that evoke the most profound memories) come from about 15 years old into my early 20s. And, for those who listen to library-based stations (oldies, classic rock, etc.) that is what THEY have been saying for years.
> Your "music center" is 'way too limited. Kids get into
> popular music from the time they're 10, at the latest, so
> you're lopping off five important years there. In fact,
> music probably matters more to a person in those years
> because you don't have a lot of other things to think about,
> aside from homework.
***TRUE. There's mid/late '60s music that has credibility with those in their mid/late 40s (Beatles, Stones, Beach Boys, Motown, Mamas & Papas, etc.) and many who do not(Gary & Playboys, Hermits), the acts that may have had post-'65 hits but have that early '60s sound and feel- very sweet and innocent and poppy. Lightweight songs that are not good fits with the credible late '60s and early/mid '70s hits.
> One reason oldies stations have been blown up (WCBS-FM/New
> York being the most prominent example) is you can't serve
> both ends of the demo scale. An old Herman's Hermits record
> doesn't matter to someone who grew up in the '70s and '80s,
> yet the "newer" stuff isn't necessarily going to snag the
> "vintage" listener, either. So you hope for a compromise,
> knowing that the older listeners will be so disenfranchised
> from any other music format that they'll stick with you.
> They may hurt the demos, but they keep the overall share up.
>
>
> With their adjustments, 3WS now sounds like WTAE did in the
> late 70s, its final throes as a music station with some
> clout.
>
>
>
>
> > Correct- the don't consider the brand of music termed
> Oldies
> > to be "their" music.
> >
> > However, 25-54s are not tested for this. It's WAY too
> wide
> > an age range. No 25, 30 or even 35 year old has much
> > interest in 60s or even much 70s music. Likely 45-54s are
>
> > polled (at least, if you want accurate answers).
> >
> > If you think about this, somebody that's 40 years old
> today
> > was born in 1966, meaning they graduated High School
> around
> > 1984- that puts their music center between 1979-1988 or so
>
> > (from 15 yrs old until about the time they got out of
> > college). There is almost NOTHING for these people on an
> > Oldies station that plays much 60s music at all.
> > >
> > > The reason is that in research and focus groups, 25-54s
> > say
> > > they don't like "oldies" and wouldn't listen to a
> station
> > > that played "oldies".
> > >
> >
>
- Status
- This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.