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4th Anniversary of the DTV Transition
- Thread starter Joey1986
- Start date
Here in Fairbanks, KUAC pulled a BBC and added two audio-only subchannels to go along with World, Create, and UATV: KUAC2 (featuring programming they couldn't fit into KUAC-FM) and KUAC3 (all-classical music).
F
FredLeonard
Guest
Dave said:
Hey, Dave, what's with the pale green typeface? Maybe you think it sets your posts apart and calls attention to them. In fact, it just makes them harder to read due to poor foreground-background contrast. You seem to put a lot of thought into what you post but reading pale green type on gray is too much work.
Both VHF and UHF have been around for more than half a century and TV users should have understood the difference in antenna types long ago. None of that changed with the digital switch.
What did change was the movement of previously VHF stations to UHF but because they continued to advertise themselves with the old RF designation (and still do) people did not realize that their former "channel 3" (RF 3 VHF-lo) was now actually "channel 3" (RF 26 UHF) for example. If there was a failing by the FCC (other than their failure to test the digital propagation in real life situations) it was not to notify viewers that the actual TV station frequency was changing so you may need a different antenna.
Further muddying up the advertising was the insistence by retailers that you now needed a "digital" or "high def" antenna which was absolutely untrue.
It didn't help, of course, that the digital signal was much less powerful than its analog predecessor so people, like me, who had perfect analog reception now had crappy digital reception (and continue to have). There are still TV stations simulcasting a secondary UHF frequency because their primary "HD" VHF digital signal is so poor.
Most big box retailers (Target for example) carry a line of indoor set-top antennas which contain the UHF loop as well as rabbit ear dipoles for VHF reception. They run about $10 and are usually adequate unless you live in a fringe location.
My personal perception of the FCC's actions in this drama was their apparent tunnel vision on the digital conversion box program to the exclusion of other important events - like testing digital in a variety of actual settings.
What did change was the movement of previously VHF stations to UHF but because they continued to advertise themselves with the old RF designation (and still do) people did not realize that their former "channel 3" (RF 3 VHF-lo) was now actually "channel 3" (RF 26 UHF) for example. If there was a failing by the FCC (other than their failure to test the digital propagation in real life situations) it was not to notify viewers that the actual TV station frequency was changing so you may need a different antenna.
Further muddying up the advertising was the insistence by retailers that you now needed a "digital" or "high def" antenna which was absolutely untrue.
It didn't help, of course, that the digital signal was much less powerful than its analog predecessor so people, like me, who had perfect analog reception now had crappy digital reception (and continue to have). There are still TV stations simulcasting a secondary UHF frequency because their primary "HD" VHF digital signal is so poor.
Most big box retailers (Target for example) carry a line of indoor set-top antennas which contain the UHF loop as well as rabbit ear dipoles for VHF reception. They run about $10 and are usually adequate unless you live in a fringe location.
My personal perception of the FCC's actions in this drama was their apparent tunnel vision on the digital conversion box program to the exclusion of other important events - like testing digital in a variety of actual settings.
landtuna said:
I think a fair part of the blame goes to stations for not adequately explaining you needed an all-channel antenna.
I know of at least one viewer who lost three of the five most popular stations because the store that sold him his HDTV told him he had to take down the existing all-channel antenna system he was using with his analog set & replace it with a "digital" antenna -- which of course supported only UHF. Luckily, he still had the "analog" antenna & was able to put it back up..
In general I think a very large share of the blame belongs to retailers who sold antennas they should have known wouldn't work for many of their customers. No, I don't expect the manager of the Ashland City Wal-Mart to know UHF-only antennas won't work there. I certainly expect the guy in charge of purchasing for the electronics department at Wal-Mart in general to know not to be stocking UHF-only stuff.
I do wish they had kept an open mind to compatible modifications to ATSC. For example, Sinclair's request to be allowed to use COFDM modulation.
Bill DeFelice said:
100% agree FCC screwed up big time with DTV they should have made all station increase there power to just about max allowed. When they did the voucher for DTV it should have been for $125 to $150 it should have covered digital converter out door antenna antenna mast and coax. I use to much better signal here in Houston before DTV even though the picture was kinda worse. DTV signal now sucks there like manys they can screw up the picture for 3 to 5 secs like
Big truck driving by
Decent size Law mower
Train
Wind
Storm
Placement of antenna can be 1 inch different and you get some channels and not other not it 1 inch and you get the other channels 1 inch movement should make difference
I would take pre DTV with 40% to 60% better signal and a little crappy signal over DTV.
One other DTV fail is max of 8 sub channels that is to many with that many the picture on all the these channels sucks max should be 4
K
kenglish
Guest
The biggest mistake was, not making every TV and every converter box capable of being upgraded by a simple over-the-air download.
We could have done so many useful things, like updating our EAS System, making the HD channels MPEG-4, adding graphics and such to the EPG, etc.
But, right now, we have to stay stuck in the 2008-mode of Digital Technology, because somewhere, somebody has an old converter or TV set.....from the "last decade".
We could have done so many useful things, like updating our EAS System, making the HD channels MPEG-4, adding graphics and such to the EPG, etc.
But, right now, we have to stay stuck in the 2008-mode of Digital Technology, because somewhere, somebody has an old converter or TV set.....from the "last decade".
It's like the FCC was trying to kill OTA so everyone would have to sign up for cable, without actually coming right out and killing OTA...
I'm going to be different than others and say digital TV has been great when I'm at the lakeside cottage (border of NH & Maine), where we don't have cable. In analog days, we'd get a couple of channels well, a couple with snow or ghosts and a couple that were only barely watchable.
Now we get perfect cable-like reception on most of those channels. For instance, CBS Portland went from barely watchable to perfect. We had been getting ABC with some snow from Manchester. There were so many ghosts on the ABC station in Portland that we almost always watched Manchester 9. Now that's switched. Portland 8 is reliable but Manchester 9 only comes in sometimes. Of course, when 9 does come in, it's perfect.
Then there are all the subchannels. Two stations (ABC, NBC) give us local news channels. NH PBS now has FIVE progam feeds (regular channel, their own alternate channel, World, Kids and Create).
For distance viewing, we still get a few Boston stations most nights and early mornings, from 100 miles away. Again, when they do come in, they're perfect. No ghosts, no snow. Even a couple of Providence stations come in a few times a month, from 130 miles away.
We do still have a good rooftop antenna, pre-amp and rotor. If it wasn't for that rotor, it would be hard to pick up some stations. Unless you've got the antenna pointed in EXACTLY the right direction, there are stations that would totally disappear. So it isn't like the old days where if your antenna was in the general direction of the station you wanted, it would still be OK.
The one downside is that in the middle of a sunny midday, even somewhat reliable stations freeze for a few seconds or even disappear for a few hours. Has anyone else found that sunny mid afternoons actually hurt your reception? That's true especially for the local ABC station that stayed on VHF 8, but also happens sometimes with the NBC and CBS stations which are now on UHF.
So all-in-all, digital was a very good move for me.
Now we get perfect cable-like reception on most of those channels. For instance, CBS Portland went from barely watchable to perfect. We had been getting ABC with some snow from Manchester. There were so many ghosts on the ABC station in Portland that we almost always watched Manchester 9. Now that's switched. Portland 8 is reliable but Manchester 9 only comes in sometimes. Of course, when 9 does come in, it's perfect.
Then there are all the subchannels. Two stations (ABC, NBC) give us local news channels. NH PBS now has FIVE progam feeds (regular channel, their own alternate channel, World, Kids and Create).
For distance viewing, we still get a few Boston stations most nights and early mornings, from 100 miles away. Again, when they do come in, they're perfect. No ghosts, no snow. Even a couple of Providence stations come in a few times a month, from 130 miles away.
We do still have a good rooftop antenna, pre-amp and rotor. If it wasn't for that rotor, it would be hard to pick up some stations. Unless you've got the antenna pointed in EXACTLY the right direction, there are stations that would totally disappear. So it isn't like the old days where if your antenna was in the general direction of the station you wanted, it would still be OK.
The one downside is that in the middle of a sunny midday, even somewhat reliable stations freeze for a few seconds or even disappear for a few hours. Has anyone else found that sunny mid afternoons actually hurt your reception? That's true especially for the local ABC station that stayed on VHF 8, but also happens sometimes with the NBC and CBS stations which are now on UHF.
So all-in-all, digital was a very good move for me.
Gregg said:
As I've reported several times, I lose digital signals when the sun sets behind the antenna farm (South Mountain) here in the Phoenix area. Seems to happen only during late Spring and early Fall when the sun is directly behind the antennas. Mid-summer the sun sets north of the towers and in Winter the sun is south.
If everyone lived in Kansas, DTV would have perfect.
I live in West Virginia, which is not nicknamed 'the Mountain State" for nothing.
Broacasters should be required to increase their signals to replicate as closely as possible their pre-DTV coverage areas, or it all becomes a moot issue, and you have to get DishNetwork and pay the extra five bucks to get your five locals. However, our PBS is from Athens, Ohio, so we miss out on excellent shows produced by West Virginia Public Broadcasting. Also, due to our DMA, we can't get a station all of 35 miles away, but at least we do get an excellent NBC station (WTOV 9 in Steubenville, Ohio).
I live in West Virginia, which is not nicknamed 'the Mountain State" for nothing.
Broacasters should be required to increase their signals to replicate as closely as possible their pre-DTV coverage areas, or it all becomes a moot issue, and you have to get DishNetwork and pay the extra five bucks to get your five locals. However, our PBS is from Athens, Ohio, so we miss out on excellent shows produced by West Virginia Public Broadcasting. Also, due to our DMA, we can't get a station all of 35 miles away, but at least we do get an excellent NBC station (WTOV 9 in Steubenville, Ohio).
They may not be able to for reasons relating to where all the stations are allocated, differences between digital and analog, and other things like that. They should just have a do-over on the DTV allocations.Greg Goodfellow said:
Oh, right. Well, I was hoping someone here would know the directions. I don't want to use scissors because I might want to watch what is on that tape.landtuna said:
UHF "ghosting" has actually proved to be an unintentional advantage. What you are getting are multiple signals and your tuner will pick up the strongest one and lock on to it. Doesn't work that way on VHF.
On another note, I think power increase are in order or more translators to make OTA work.
On another note, I think power increase are in order or more translators to make OTA work.
JeeperOne
Banned
Denver DTV report.....
KWGN 2 (CW)
2.1 Main Programming
2.2 ThisTV
KCNC 4 (CBS)
4.1 Main Programming
KRMA 6 (PBS)
6.1 Main Programming
6.2 PBS V-Me
6.3 PBS Create
KMGH 7 (ABC)
7.1 Main Programming
7.2 KZCO-LP 27 (Azteca America)
7.4 NewsChannel 247
KUSA 9 (NBC)
9.1 Main Programming
9.2 9NEWS Now (WeatherNation TV)
KBDI 12 (PBS)
12.1 Main Programming
12.2 Colorado Public TV +
12.3 Mhz. WorldView
KTFD 14 (UniMas)
14.1 Main Programming
14.2 Bounce TV
14.3 GetTV
KTVD 20 (MyNetwork TV)
20.1 Main Programming
20.2 MeTV
KZDN-LD 26
26.1 TheCool TV (This is according to the station's Wikipedia Page)
KLPD-LD 28
28.1 Home Shopping Network
28.2 BIZ TV
28.3 KCDO 3 (Independent - Sterling)
28.4 Colorado Country
KDVR 31 (FOX)
31.1 Main Programming
31.2 Antenna TV
KPXC 59 (ION)
59.1 Main Programming
59.2 Qubo
59.3 ION Life
Total number of NON religious & foreign language broadcasters as I have it -
BEFORE DTV TRANSITION - 9
AFTER DTV TRANSITION - 20 (11 Subchannels)
Everything else is either a foreign language broadcaster with NO English Diginet or a Godcaster
That's the score here.....
Cheers & 73 ;D
KWGN 2 (CW)
2.1 Main Programming
2.2 ThisTV
KCNC 4 (CBS)
4.1 Main Programming
KRMA 6 (PBS)
6.1 Main Programming
6.2 PBS V-Me
6.3 PBS Create
KMGH 7 (ABC)
7.1 Main Programming
7.2 KZCO-LP 27 (Azteca America)
7.4 NewsChannel 247
KUSA 9 (NBC)
9.1 Main Programming
9.2 9NEWS Now (WeatherNation TV)
KBDI 12 (PBS)
12.1 Main Programming
12.2 Colorado Public TV +
12.3 Mhz. WorldView
KTFD 14 (UniMas)
14.1 Main Programming
14.2 Bounce TV
14.3 GetTV
KTVD 20 (MyNetwork TV)
20.1 Main Programming
20.2 MeTV
KZDN-LD 26
26.1 TheCool TV (This is according to the station's Wikipedia Page)
KLPD-LD 28
28.1 Home Shopping Network
28.2 BIZ TV
28.3 KCDO 3 (Independent - Sterling)
28.4 Colorado Country
KDVR 31 (FOX)
31.1 Main Programming
31.2 Antenna TV
KPXC 59 (ION)
59.1 Main Programming
59.2 Qubo
59.3 ION Life
Total number of NON religious & foreign language broadcasters as I have it -
BEFORE DTV TRANSITION - 9
AFTER DTV TRANSITION - 20 (11 Subchannels)
Everything else is either a foreign language broadcaster with NO English Diginet or a Godcaster
That's the score here.....
Cheers & 73 ;D
JeeperOne
Banned
EDIT Mind you, that's what's available here. I'll post back with what I can actually get ;D
Of those, I can only get the following after doing a rescan.....
KRMA 6 & all subchannels
KMGH 7 & all subchannels
KTFD 14.2 (Weak though)
KTVD 20.1 & 20.2
KDVR 31.1 & 31.2
Everything else is either a foreign broadcaster with NO English Diginet or a Godcaster
My TV also stops on 10.1 as well for some odd reason
Cheers & 73 ;D
Of those, I can only get the following after doing a rescan.....
KRMA 6 & all subchannels
KMGH 7 & all subchannels
KTFD 14.2 (Weak though)
KTVD 20.1 & 20.2
KDVR 31.1 & 31.2
Everything else is either a foreign broadcaster with NO English Diginet or a Godcaster
My TV also stops on 10.1 as well for some odd reason
Cheers & 73 ;D
Here in South Florida (Miami-Ft. Lauderdale) in where I am at, although I get DirecTV, I still use the digital antennas for something else. I get WFOR-CBS, WTVJ-NBC, WBFS-MNT, WFLX-FOX, and WSFL-CW, as well as TBN and the local PBS stations, WPBT, WLRN and WXEL. My main concern is WPLG and WSVN since I live in the suburbs of Northern Ft. Lauderdale and they're hard to get.
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