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50/60hz
- Thread starter SFM-Ptgal
- Start date
Most times a 60hz motor will run on 50hz without any problem. It will run a little slower than it would on 60 hz and may run a little hotter so make sure it is not overheating. Also make sure the voltage is correct. I may be wrong but I think some countries that use 50hz run mostly on 220-240 volts instead of 110-120 like we use in the USA. If the voltage is to high there will be problems.
rew said:
I have burned up quite a few 60 Hz motors by running them at their rated voltage at 50 Hz. Some motors can take it, some can't. I've also noted that many 60 Hz motors become quite noisy when run at 50 Hz. They almost always run quite a bit hotter on 50 Hz. Basically, it takes more copper and iron to make an inductive device work on a lower frequency than it does at a higher frequency. That is why aircraft are 400 Hz. Motors and other inductors can be smaller, thus lighter.
I'm very sure that in Portugal, the voltage is 220-240 volts. You will need to use a transformer to supply the proper 120 volts. 240 volts will burn up a 120 volt motor very quickly. Otherwise, if the speed isn't an issue, and you can buy the motors cheaply enough, I'd say, "Give it a try." You might get lucky. If you start smelling overheated windings (a distinct aroma) turn them off before they totally go up in smoke.
All that said, I think you are better off getting the right parts from the beginning. If nothing else,it will be less frustrating.
A true 50 hz winding has higher inductance to keep current down, as each wave cycle is longer.
If the motor runs hot simply add a 10 to 20 ohm resistance in series.
When 25 cycle power was used in some areas of the US, all the transformers used in radios were MUCH larger.
When these ares were switched to 60 cycle, all the motors, (refrigerator, fans, washing machines) hd to be retrofitted in order not to run
over twice the speed.. But radios with 25 cycle power supplies were fine as they were.
Any POWER using device might have a problem with 50 cycle if it ws designed for 60, but a turntable motor is such a tiny fractional horsepower
that it is unlikely to smoke, if the voltage is correct.
If the motor runs hot simply add a 10 to 20 ohm resistance in series.
When 25 cycle power was used in some areas of the US, all the transformers used in radios were MUCH larger.
When these ares were switched to 60 cycle, all the motors, (refrigerator, fans, washing machines) hd to be retrofitted in order not to run
over twice the speed.. But radios with 25 cycle power supplies were fine as they were.
Any POWER using device might have a problem with 50 cycle if it ws designed for 60, but a turntable motor is such a tiny fractional horsepower
that it is unlikely to smoke, if the voltage is correct.
Tom Wells said:
I don't know about that. My first bad experience with running 60 HZ motors on 50 Hz was back in my early touring sound days. All our amp racks were cooled with some shaded pole fan motors from Granger. (This was many years ago, before the popularity of Muffin fans.) We did some shows in Mexico, which is 120 volts, more or less. What we did not know was parts of Mexico City were 50 Hz. In one evening, we smoked 24 fans. They did run OK for several hours, but one by one, they quit. It was a very long evening trying to keep racks of Crown DC-300 amplifiers from going into thermal protection.
On a later European tour, we'd figured out the fan problem by purchasing new ones that like 50 Hz. We carried our own three phase power distribution system, including three large step-down transformers that could be tapped to give 120 volts, no matter what the input.
Part of the show involved a magic act that used a lot of motorized props. The supplier of those machines hadn't thought of 50 Hz being a problem. I turned out it was a big problem, although none of them burned up. They were only run for a few seconds, but they all made very loud 50 Hz buzzing sounds that were WAY too audible, even in the back of a 20,000 seat arena. The immediate cure was to play the accompanying music at ear splitting levels to mask the noise, but the eventual cure was to go to the store and buy new motors that liked 50 Hz.
In retrospect, both of these incidents seem kind of funny today, but I can assure you that at the time, they were near disasters. It took a lot of extra work and money to solve the problem that could have been easily avoided if we'd know about it. It is almost always cheaper and easier to do it right the first time than it is to do it twice.
I realize that SFM is doing this for personal enjoyment, and that is great. Experimenting is part of the fun, but he shouldn't be too disappointed if he does not get the results he'd like.
While we are on the subject of 50 /60 Hz, let me toss this one out:
I have an old tube guitar amplifier designed to run on 120 V / 60 Hz. Since I've been living in Europe I've been powering it using a voltage converter to bring the voltage down to 120, but the frequency remains at 50 Hz.
Question: Am I risking any long-term damage to my vintage guitar amp using it this way?
I have an old tube guitar amplifier designed to run on 120 V / 60 Hz. Since I've been living in Europe I've been powering it using a voltage converter to bring the voltage down to 120, but the frequency remains at 50 Hz.
Question: Am I risking any long-term damage to my vintage guitar amp using it this way?
Basnya said:
Probably not, but it would be a good idea to check to see how hot the power transformer gets after about an hour or so of operation. It is normal for it to be quite warm, but if it is so hot that you can't touch it, you are risking burning up the transformer.
I used to run Fender Twins and Ampeg SVT's on 50 Hz in Europe all the time. I never had a problem. A lot of guitar amp manufacturers actually built the same amp for US and foreign consumption. The transformer had taps for both 120 and 240 volt operation. During assembly, the domestic ones were wired for 120 volts and the export versions were wired for 220-240 and supplied with an appropriate European power cord, or sometimes, no mains plug at all. It was cheaper to use a transformer that had the taps and that was happy with 50 Hz than it was to inventory two different parts.
What kind of amp is it?
Basnya said:
Being an old rock and roller form the 70's I actually remember seeing those. Earth was a small manufacturer - there were lots of them in garages and mini-warehouses back then. I don't think they thought much beyond the US market though, so I'm not surprised to hear that it doesn't have 220 voltage taps. They probably used an off the shelf transformer from Stancore, Triad or one of the other transformer suppliers.
If you've been using it this long on 50 Hz with no problem, I wouldn't worry about it a lot. As long as it doesn't get really hot and doesn’t emit very nasty odors, it is probably OK.
Boogie on....
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