60s Oldies

[semoochie]

It occurred to me that it's been eight years since Oldies stations dumped everything pre-Beatles and eventually became Classic Hits. That means that 1971 is as old as 1963 was then and Classic Hits stations should start to have the same demographics problems that plagued the Oldies stations in 2004. Has there been any industry discussion of jettisoning what's left of the 60s and early 70s? It can't be too far off.

 

[TheFonz]

It occurred to me that it's been eight years since Oldies stations dumped everything pre-Beatles and eventually became Classic Hits. That means that 1971 is as old as 1963 was then and Classic Hits stations should start to have the same demographics problems that plagued the Oldies stations in 2004. Has there been any industry discussion of jettisoning what's left of the 60s and early 70s? It can't be too far off.

The industry discussion should be about how music radio is going to survive. The gap between the "old" generation and the ipod generation has been squeezed to almost nothing.

 

[landtuna]

And yet movie tracks and commercials continue to feature, overwhelmingly, Oldies versus the new sh stuff.

Agencies won't buy Oldies as a format but they'll run commercials that do.

Makes sense to me!

 

[firepoint525]

It occurred to me that it's been eight years since Oldies stations dumped everything pre-Beatles and eventually became Classic Hits. That means that 1971 is as old as 1963 was then and Classic Hits stations should start to have the same demographics problems that plagued the Oldies stations in 2004. Has there been any industry discussion of jettisoning what's left of the 60s and early 70s? It can't be too far off.

Here in Nashville, we just got the new "hippie radio" station http://www.hippieradio945.com just last month, so I hope you are wrong, at least for now. Still, I can't help but think that they are living on borrowed time.

But I don't see 1971 as ever being a "cut-off date," simply because that was not a time of "generational change," as 1963-64 had been. Groups like 3 Dog Night and the Grassroots were in their heyday about that time, and were "mid-career." The next period of "generational change" was 1979-1980, when disco was killed off, and new wave and MTV took over. So hopefully, we have a few more years to enjoy at least mid-to-late '60s music on the radio. I'm 48, so I'm at the tail end of the "hippie radio" generation, myself.

 

[landtuna]

It occurred to me that it's been eight years since Oldies stations dumped everything pre-Beatles and eventually became Classic Hits. That means that 1971 is as old as 1963 was then and Classic Hits stations should start to have the same demographics problems that plagued the Oldies stations in 2004. Has there been any industry discussion of jettisoning what's left of the 60s and early 70s? It can't be too far off.

Here in Nashville, we just got the new "hippie radio" station http://www.hippieradio945.com just last month, so I hope you are wrong, at least for now. Still, I can't help but think that they are living on borrowed time.

But I don't see 1971 as ever being a "cut-off date," simply because that was not a time of "generational change," as 1963-64 had been. Groups like 3 Dog Night and the Grassroots were in their heyday about that time, and were "mid-career." The next period of "generational change" was 1979-1980, when disco was killed off, and new wave and MTV took over. So hopefully, we have a few more years to enjoy at least mid-to-late '60s music on the radio. I'm 48, so I'm at the tail end of the "hippie radio" generation, myself.

If there were such a thing as "hippie radio" it would be what I have always called Protest Rock. Those songs which were anti-Vietnam, anti-draft, anti-establishment and/or documented events related to those such as "Four Dead In Ohio" (the Kent State shootings). There were protest songs from roughly 1965 through the early 70's when the war in Vietnam was dying down. Disco then made its appearance and true Rock began its death spiral.

And since MTV was all about video and not the music I give them no credit for any sort of "generational" change.

 

[firepoint525]

If there were such a thing as "hippie radio" it would be what I have always called Protest Rock. Those songs which were anti-Vietnam, anti-draft, anti-establishment and/or documented events related to those such as "Four Dead In Ohio" (the Kent State shootings). There were protest songs from roughly 1965 through the early 70's when the war in Vietnam was dying down.

We beat this topic to death last month on the Nashville board, so I won't go into it again. Long story short, the name "hippie radio" is a misnomer. "Baby boomer radio" (which they sometimes also call themselves) is a bit more accurate.

Disco then made its appearance and true Rock began its death spiral.
And since MTV was all about video and not the music I give them no credit for any sort of "generational" change.

Well, again, the "garage band revolution" and the backlash against "over"produced music hit its peak in 1979-80 and killed off disco. Phil Spector must have hated the garage band revolution, because it was a reaction (although it took about 15 years) against the whole "wall of sound" and constantly overdubbed music that really started with him in the early-to-mid '60s. MTV, although it was a reaction to this change, was certainly a part of this change, although it came along a year or two later.

 

[landtuna]

Long story short, the name "hippie radio" is a misnomer.

I'd agree with that since "hippies" were in existence as early as the mid-50's in S.F. They tended to frequent jazz clubs in those days and generally kept a low profile. They didn't become media fodder until the Vietnam War came along with the rise of Haight-Ashbury.

 

[semoochie]

"But I don't see 1971 as ever being a "cut-off date," simply because that was not a time of "generational change," as 1963-64 had been." I'm thinking not of generational change but rather reaching the age of 55. That part is a constant.

 

[firepoint525]

"But I don't see 1971 as ever being a "cut-off date," simply because that was not a time of "generational change," as 1963-64 had been." I'm thinking not of generational change but rather reaching the age of 55. That part is a constant.

What does being 55 have to do with 1971? It's generational changes that matter, not arbitrary dates based on age. Here in Nashville, we had Oldies 96.3 from about 1990 (from what I understand, since I didn't live here at the time) until 2005. 97.1 became Oldies 97.1 (even with some of 96.3's former jocks) but they were only able to hold onto the format for one additional year. They bounced around with formats for several years after that, and seemed to have finally settled on classic hits.

The next generational change was 1979-1980, so the next time classic hits stations update their playlists, they will likely drop everything pre-1980, so be careful what you ask for.

 

[semoochie]

The last time this happened, Oldies stations had lost too much of the 25-54 demographic to attract advertisers. All things being equal, we are at the same point this year. Why they tossed out the baby(1963), with the bathwater(1956)is still a mystery to me. The bathwater is now 1964 and well overdue to at least be de-emphasized, as the 50s were before 2004. At some point, 54 year-olds won't connect with this music and it will be a long time before they don't connect with 1980! I would think that abandoning each year, when its time comes up, and adding another, would be the way to go but it didn't happen that way. They're still playing music that 54 year-olds can barely remember, if at all.

 

[CTListener]

The last time this happened, Oldies stations had lost too much of the 25-54 demographic to attract advertisers. All things being equal, we are at the same point this year. Why they tossed out the baby(1963), with the bathwater(1956)is still a mystery to me. The bathwater is now 1964 and well overdue to at least be de-emphasized, as the 50s were before 2004. At some point, 54 year-olds won't connect with this music and it will be a long time before they don't connect with 1980! I would think that abandoning each year, when its time comes up, and adding another, would be the way to go but it didn't happen that way. They're still playing music that 54 year-olds can barely remember, if at all.

I'm 56. The oldest songs that WDRC-FM Hartford plays these days are from 1964. I was a kid then, but I remember them. Since the start of the year, DRC-FM has marginalized the '60s to two or three songs an hour. The '80s get three or four, the '70s get the rest. I'd expect the '60s to be gone by 2020 if the station stays in the format -- and if radio is still around.

 

[landtuna]

The last time this happened, Oldies stations had lost too much of the 25-54 demographic to attract advertisers. All things being equal, we are at the same point this year. Why they tossed out the baby(1963), with the bathwater(1956)is still a mystery to me. The bathwater is now 1964 and well overdue to at least be de-emphasized, as the 50s were before 2004. At some point, 54 year-olds won't connect with this music and it will be a long time before they don't connect with 1980! I would think that abandoning each year, when its time comes up, and adding another, would be the way to go but it didn't happen that way. They're still playing music that 54 year-olds can barely remember, if at all.

I have been taken to the music radio woodshed several times by David Eduardo regarding the viability of advertising on Oldies genre's so I'm not going there with this post. Rather, I'm just talking about the attraction of the music for us "old timers".

As I have aged, and noted the same of my peers, I have noticed while some have branched out into other genre's, most seem to have stayed with the Oldies (mid-50's through early 80's) as their primary music preference. I cannot think of one peer who listens to any sort of Rock later than the late 80's. So I question your statement that, as we age, we "disconnect" with the music. And if I understood Eduardo correctly he has made the statement that people in general tend to stay with the music they heard as youngsters (under-20 I am assuming). So, there is still a market for Oldies although it isn't as large as it once was. There are stations in smaller markets which still do a brisk business in the genre and don't depend upon agency buys to determine what music they play.

Now to another point....it is a common occurrence for one or more of my kids to hear one of my Oldies (usually a more obscure or really old song) and comment on how much they like it but have never heard it before. The most common place for this to happen in watching TV commercials. (Note that several well known advertisers are now using 50's pop music for their TV commercials.) The daughter still living at home has loaded up her mp3 player with this late 50's music. Sometimes old is new again (the mostly miserable covers that today's "musicians" play notwithstanding.

Please remember I am not saying a commercial radio station could make money playing the Oldies but some obviously are successful at it. There are many variables that go into music radio success and the actual music is only one of them (although probably the most important).

I am two years older than the earliest Boomers so will most probably be gone by the time the last Boomers (those born in 1960) quit listening to music radio but I'm guessing that the Oldies will survive the Boomer generation in the same manner as Standards have because it is simply the best popular music of all time. Whether it is played on the radio is most likely a different topic.

 

[TheFonz]

Please remember I am not saying a commercial radio station could make money playing the Oldies but some obviously are successful at it.

Being part of the 65+ generation, I broke away from commerical radio many years ago. First I went to satellite radio and now I listen to internet radio. And since I'm "spoiled" by not having to listen to commercials, I also find myself being annoyed by TV commercials. I buy or rent TV sitcoms and drams on DVD. It's worth the cost to eliminate the commercials.

 

[semoochie]

I never said anything about disconnecting with the music at a certain age. If a person is 54 now, they were 6 in 1964. When that's the oldest person you're trying to reach, playing music from 1964 doesn't seem to be the way. My point was that chronologically, we're in the same position as eight years ago, when everything before 1964 was suddenly removed. Consequently, we should be on the verge of eliminating everything before 1972, unless something has changed with the public psyche, that makes people want to hear music that they weren't a part of the first time out.

 

[CTListener]

I never said anything about disconnecting with the music at a certain age. If a person is 54 now, they were 6 in 1964. When that's the oldest person you're trying to reach, playing music from 1964 doesn't seem to be the way. My point was that chronologically, we're in the same position as eight years ago, when everything before 1964 was suddenly removed. Consequently, we should be on the verge of eliminating everything before 1972, unless something has changed with the public psyche, that makes people want to hear music that they weren't a part of the first time out.

What about songs like "Stand By Me," "Unchained Melody" and "Oh, Pretty Woman," which found renewed popularity after being placed in hit movies? The songs heard on the movie soundtracks were the original recordings, not remakes by contemporary artists. Shouldn't exceptions be made for these songs? Otherwise, sad to say, you're most likely right. Radio without the Beatles or the Supremes will sound strange, but no stranger than radio without Sinatra or Crosby sounded to my mother when the last "good music" station left the local airwaves.

 

[willdav713]

I never said anything about disconnecting with the music at a certain age. If a person is 54 now, they were 6 in 1964. When that's the oldest person you're trying to reach, playing music from 1964 doesn't seem to be the way. My point was that chronologically, we're in the same position as eight years ago, when everything before 1964 was suddenly removed. Consequently, we should be on the verge of eliminating everything before 1972, unless something has changed with the public psyche, that makes people want to hear music that they weren't a part of the first time out.

What about songs like "Stand By Me," "Unchained Melody" and "Oh, Pretty Woman," which found renewed popularity after being placed in hit movies? The songs heard on the movie soundtracks were the original recordings, not remakes by contemporary artists. Shouldn't exceptions be made for these songs? Otherwise, sad to say, you're most likely right. Radio without the Beatles or the Supremes will sound strange, but no stranger than radio without Sinatra or Crosby sounded to my mother when the last "good music" station left the local airwaves.

Don't worry Crosby's music will still be around during the Christmas season.

 

[firepoint525]

I would think that abandoning each year, when its time comes up, and adding another, would be the way to go but it didn't happen that way.

I would have thought that, too, but they go with the "generational changes" instead. There was a "mini-generational change" around 1974-75, when disco came in, so if radio starts eliminating their "older oldies," they will likely lose not only the '60s, but also everything up until about 1974-75. This is why we lost ALL the '50s oldies and early '60s oldies in May 2005, when Oldies 96.3 went "JACK." Even so, I remember a listener commenting about them adding late '70s artists like Peter Frampton, the BeeGees, and the Eagles to their playlist. So I thought that they were "evolving." But that turned out not to be the case, and they changed in May 2005.

 

[firepoint525]

I never said anything about disconnecting with the music at a certain age. If a person is 54 now, they were 6 in 1964. When that's the oldest person you're trying to reach, playing music from 1964 doesn't seem to be the way. My point was that chronologically, we're in the same position as eight years ago, when everything before 1964 was suddenly removed. Consequently, we should be on the verge of eliminating everything before 1972, unless something has changed with the public psyche, that makes people want to hear music that they weren't a part of the first time out.

Again, 1972 was not one of those times of "generational change" when everything that had come before it was swept away, as 1964 had been. So I don't see everything pre-1972 being wiped away anytime soon. (Otherwise, how do you explain to listeners why you are playing 3 Dog Night's 1973 hits but not their 1969 hits?) But disco swept in a largely new generation of performers, most of whom had short-lived careers, beginning in the mid-'70s, so it would be fairly easy to eliminate pre-1975 hits with the next format change. (By the same token, I had noticed that Oldies 96.3 had been reluctant to play late '70s music (until about the time of the listener's comment, anyway), except for their core artists, like the Four Seasons and the Beach Boys.)

 

[CTListener]

So I don't see everything pre-1972 being wiped away anytime soon. (Otherwise, how do you explain to listeners why you are playing 3 Dog Night's 1973 hits but not their 1969 hits?)

I don't think the average listener is going to notice that you're not playing "One" anymore but you are playing "Joy to the World." Or that you're still playing Elton John's "I Guess That's Why They Call It the Blues" but not "Your Song." Unless you've got a weekend request show and are telling your jock to answer requests for an "aged out" song with a BS line like "Sorry, we don't have that one" (the line Terry Young uses on Sirius XM's '60s channel when a request comes in for a mid-charter that was dropped from the playlist after Sirius took over, even though the caller remembers hearing it on that very channel just three years ago) and play one of the generationally correct songs instead. Otherwise, your average listener is going to notice only that a bunch of "new" songs are being played (the mid- and late '80s hits), not that the station isn't playing "House of the Rising Sun" anymore.

 

[semoochie]

"(Otherwise, how do you explain to listeners why you are playing 3 Dog Night's 1973 hits but not their 1969 hits?)" It could possibly be the same way that Elvis Presley's 100+ catalog was reduced to two songs! They quit playing the Beach Boys 1963 hits and everything by the Four Seasons before the late 70s as well!