8100 Analog out

[BrokeEngineer]

Here's the deal. We run a lot of small concerts in our large conference room and have a nice selection of board, mic's, amps, FX gear, FOH monitors and stage monitors. What I don't have is any type of comp./limiters or eq's. Here is what I am going to try. Run the 8100 to the FOH. Only thing, you guessed it, the 8100 has a composite out. Anyone ever try "tapping" into the circuitry before the composite out? Have much success in doing so? Solder right on to it before it gets converted to composite and then put some XLR's onto the back. Why? Cause I have an 8100 laying around I can do this with and I like the sound. Thanks for any tips you might have.
G

 

[ElectricNoodle]

Would it be easier to get a cheap tuner and inject the composite and take the L/R from the tuner? This way if you need the 8100 it won't be a problem.

EN

> Here's the deal. We run a lot of small concerts in our large
> conference room and have a nice selection of board, mic's,
> amps, FX gear, FOH monitors and stage monitors. What I don't
> have is any type of comp./limiters or eq's. Here is what I
> am going to try. Run the 8100 to the FOH. Only thing, you
> guessed it, the 8100 has a composite out. Anyone ever try
> "tapping" into the circuitry before the composite out? Have
> much success in doing so? Solder right on to it before it
> gets converted to composite and then put some XLR's onto the
> back. Why? Cause I have an 8100 laying around I can do this
> with and I like the sound. Thanks for any tips you might
> have.
> G
>

 

[fm_engineer]

> Here's the deal. We run a lot of small concerts in our large
> conference room and have a nice selection of board, mic's,
> amps, FX gear, FOH monitors and stage monitors. What I don't
> have is any type of comp./limiters or eq's. Here is what I
> am going to try. Run the 8100 to the FOH. Only thing, you
> guessed it, the 8100 has a composite out. Anyone ever try
> "tapping" into the circuitry before the composite out? Have
> much success in doing so? Solder right on to it before it
> gets converted to composite and then put some XLR's onto the
> back. Why? Cause I have an 8100 laying around I can do this
> with and I like the sound. Thanks for any tips you might
> have.
> G
>

Don't mess up a good optimod this way! Use the test jacks on the back, but you will need to build a 75uS de-emphasis circuit. You can build a passive circuit by using some caps, but remember it will be unbalanced. I don't recall the values you will need, but you can email or call Orban. Find a couple of center tapped matching transformers, (most stations have a bunch lying around from the old days) but your levels may be in the -10 range even though they are balanced. IIRC, the test jacks are -10, but maybe they are higher. Good luck!

 

[ChiefCheese]

> Here's the deal. We run a lot of small concerts in our large
> conference room and have a nice selection of board, mic's,
> amps, FX gear, FOH monitors and stage monitors. What I don't
> have is any type of comp./limiters or eq's. Here is what I
> am going to try. Run the 8100 to the FOH. Only thing, you
> guessed it, the 8100 has a composite out. Anyone ever try
> "tapping" into the circuitry before the composite out? Have
> much success in doing so? Solder right on to it before it
> gets converted to composite and then put some XLR's onto the
> back. Why? Cause I have an 8100 laying around I can do this
> with and I like the sound. Thanks for any tips you might
> have.
> G
>
Take the audio out off of the motherboard-bridge off of the feed to the HF limiter cards. You can get a balanced feed there. This is essentially the same way the old XT chassis was fed. That way you can benefit from the 2-band compressor, but you can avoid the pre-emphasis. With no manual in front of me I can't provide the details, but I have done it before and it works fine.

 

[SamBuca]

Stop. NEVER run a PA system with FM processing. The drivers are not designed to be pushed at a constant level (hence the peak/RMS values).

You need 2 EQs: monitor mix and FOH. Yes, they need to be 31 band 1/3 octave with up to 12 dB reduction (I'm sure you already know that we never put an EQ into the positive).

You need to crossover your FOH mix and compress each signal independently. If you're running it tri-amped: sibilance protection on the highs, wahwah protection on the mids and make the bass punchy on the lows. If it's bi-amped, don't squash the high end too much or else the midrange in that will duck the highs too much (I run mine between 4:1 and 6:1 depending on the room).

I obsess over live audio processing as much as I do radio processing

Some fun.....

Sam Buca Tower Of Power(tm):

Sam Buca Mastery of Engineering with Neat and Tidy Wiring:

Crappy view of half the processing/amp rack:

<P ID="signature">______________
</P>

 

[1290wgli]

> Here's the deal. We run a lot of small concerts in our large
> conference room and have a nice selection of board, mic's,
> amps, FX gear, FOH monitors and stage monitors. What I don't
> have is any type of comp./limiters or eq's. Here is what I
> am going to try. Run the 8100 to the FOH. Only thing, you
> guessed it, the 8100 has a composite out. Anyone ever try
> "tapping" into the circuitry before the composite out? Have
> much success in doing so? Solder right on to it before it
> gets converted to composite and then put some XLR's onto the
> back. Why? Cause I have an 8100 laying around I can do this
> with and I like the sound. Thanks for any tips you might
> have.
> G
>

Don't bastardize an 8100 for this. An Orban 424 Compressor Limiter should do the trick and still give you that Orban sound, plus it has a decent De-Esser should you need one. Use tastefully. Much better than an Alesis, DBX or something similar. Find yourself a decent EQ to go along with it, parametric is better. If you're going to do balanced audio, make sure you go all the way. Spec out the headroom of each gear to keep the S/N ratio low. You should'nt hear the processing too much and it should only correct sins in this case. I don't do live sound much, but I would never use the 8100 for something like this.

 

[HD_Ready]

> Here's the deal. We run a lot of small concerts in our large
> conference room and have a nice selection of board, mic's,
> amps, FX gear, FOH monitors and stage monitors. What I don't
> have is any type of comp./limiters or eq's. Here is what I
> am going to try. Run the 8100 to the FOH. Only thing, you
> guessed it, the 8100 has a composite out. Anyone ever try
> "tapping" into the circuitry before the composite out? Have
> much success in doing so? Solder right on to it before it
> gets converted to composite and then put some XLR's onto the
> back. Why? Cause I have an 8100 laying around I can do this
> with and I like the sound. Thanks for any tips you might
> have.
> G
>


Card's 3 and 4 can be tapped very easily, they have non pre-emphasised audio on thier outputs. I soldered cables directly to the cards and brought them to a barrier strip on the back. Sounds great at that point.

 

[BrokeEngineer]

First off, let me say I already know how retarded it is to reply to my own post but this seemed the easiest to do to cover a few posters. Let me assure you that I am not going into this 8100 with a chain saw or blow torch to tapp off nor do I have any intention of "bastardizing beyond repair". We have 3 8100's, 2 of which have the XT2 chassis attatched to them and are used as back ups to our 8400's. This specific box currently resides in the basement collecting dust. After my "test", I plan other uses for it such as trying to feed the headphones of one of my FM's because the jocks hate the program audio when the mic is on (dig delay). No I will NOT sell it and by gear for this room since it is used so little.
Sam...Thanks for sharing those pic's with us, except the one with the wires everywhere, that scared me! We mainly use this room for accoustic showcases, which means we usually have guitars, keys, accoustic bass and an occasional small drum kits. We sometimes have country type of instruments...ie, mando, violin, steel guitar. Buying proper EQ's is out of the question; 4 aux sends for monitors and a 5th to the SPX990, 1 sub group for the subs, 2 sub groups to feed another mixer for the on air feed and the main mix for the FOH. I always run my EQ in the "V" pattern or the sideways "S"...just kidding but it never ceases to amaze me how many touring companies have that setup in FOH rack, it kills me.
Thanks for everyones input, even if I don't agree.

 

[tkarvelis]

>What we have done is use the 8100 test jacks. Just use a consumer to pro match box (Henry Match box) and then deemphasize the balanced output. You also have the ability to adjust the output level.<P ID="signature">______________
You want to book the remote when?!?!</P>

 

[SamBuca]

Oh, the irony...I'm saying this to <u>PoBroke</u>Engineer.

I have a Rane RPE 228d programmable EQ sitting here in the closet...it's yours for $200 shipped.

Hell, I'll give you my entire club gear for $10,000 <P ID="signature">______________
</P>

 

[KRXOEngineer]

> >What we have done is use the 8100 test jacks. Just use a
> consumer to pro match box (Henry Match box) and then
> deemphasize the balanced output. You also have the ability
> to adjust the output level.
>

Yes.. I have done this on a contract station that was feed to a station elsewhere via ISDN. You will have to get inside the matchbox and add some padding to not overload the audio though. I remember the audio was WAAYYYY hot when we first tried it without modifying the matchbox. In our case we were able to turn off the pre-emp so that wasn't a problem, however, you might be able in your case to build a de-emp network right in the matchbox to get it flat for your audio needs.

Good luck!

 

[CW]

> >What we have done is use the 8100 test jacks. Just use a
> consumer to pro match box (Henry Match box) and then
> deemphasize the balanced output. You also have the ability
> to adjust the output level.

IF you have the money and want to do it best way, get a mod monitor tied to the composite out and use the monitor's audio out....they are De-emph'ed and +4dbm level.....take just the + and GND out to drive an unbalanced system.....viola!!

Trying to mod the 8100 is not a good idea....but if you are really into it, I would contact Bob Orban himself and ask his opinion....I would think the 8100 is overkill for your purpose....a couple of 528 mic proc using line in/out would probably be better and easier to deal with.

 

[BrokeEngineer]

a couple of 528 mic proc using line in/out would
> probably be better and easier to deal with.

Do you have a couple of 528's laying around you are willing to give me? Those would be great to use on the vocal portions but have you ever tried to use a mic proc on a dobro? fiddle? accoustic bass? Sounds like butt...

 

[BrokeEngineer]

> Oh, the irony...I'm saying this to PoBrokeEngineer.
>
> I have a Rane RPE 228d programmable EQ sitting here in the
> closet...it's yours for $200 shipped.


I might take you up on this but I really need a comp/limiter to "round out" the FOH. Not to concerned about the monitors, only a few artists have had a problem with it in the 150 or so concerts we have run. Nice pics BTW, when do we go halfsies on the Vertec array?
G

 

[wwes]

> We have 3 8100's, 2 of which have the XT2 chassis attatched
> to them and are used as back ups to our 8400's. This
> specific box currently resides in the basement collecting
> dust.

OK Po...here's the best thing you can posibly do....
pull off one of those back-up XT's (toss in the 8100 if so moved)...
and donate it to WSTB.
You...Al & Tom will feel so good in the morning...
or not.
UB
www.SundayOldiesJukebox.com
www.wwes.org

 

[BrokeEngineer]

Yeah! I'll get right on that....sorry I missed the SBE meeting the other, Travel softball for my daughter was the priority that evening. I do plan on testin soon but the study CD's are still garbage sorry...I do ned to get you a more aggresive proc., the current one has no balls...yes, I still listen and on Sundays on occasion too.
G

 

[wwes]

> Yeah! I'll get right on that....sorry I missed the SBE
> meeting the other, Travel softball for my daughter was the
> priority that evening. I do plan on testin soon but the
> study CD's are still garbage sorry...I do ned to get you a
> more aggresive proc., the current one has no balls...yes, I
> still listen and on Sundays on occasion too.
> G
>
An XT would help....and I know a Glen who'd love to tweak the whole pkg as was done you-know-where!
Or...just have Tom toss us a 10k donation...tax ded....such a deal!
Yeah....I knew you guys weren't showing at the SBE mtg....
we had 32 that night...& prob a lot more next month (for the picnic mtg)!

If you have any cert feedback....
let em know....it helps all.

You're a good man GS....keep that dial on 88-9...
Call up some Sunday & they'll say Hi...the jocks actually answer phones...
& love it when the radio pros check in!
Bill
www.SundayOldiesJukebox.com
www.wwes.org