87.7 FM

[MickeyD]

The FCC has set September 1, 2015 as the transition date for analog LPTV stations. There's no exception for channel 6. Construction permits for new analog operations are being dismissed. That effectively puts an end to the 87.7/channel 6 audio operators in a little over 4 years.

That said four years is still plenty of time for existing operators to make money. That's also time to look for an AM ro FM signal to purchased, rent an HD-2 and translator, or build their online presence.

I wouldn't be surprised if some enterprising company doesn't develop an inexpensive audio-only receiver for digital TV signals, much like the fixed tuned SCA receivers of yesterday. It wouldn't work for a mass-appeal format, but might work well for ethnic formats or radio reading services.

Yes and it wil also put an end to DTV on channel 6. Full powered DTV stations are only getting out to a fraction of their audience with the new and improved ATSC DTV system. A DTV station on any VHF channel will just heat the air.

 

[TomT]

If they were in mono, using 50 khz deviation, that would be correct. However, some of these stations have a signal that is really FM broadcast standard, i.e., 75 khz deviation with an FM-broadcast stereo pilot & subcarrier. This is against the TV rules. The FCC would also prefer that the video and audio content be related, but this is easily skirted by using a simple webcam for live "telecasts" of the DJ or video tied to the audio, e.g. music videos.

 

[w9wi]

If they were in mono, using 50 khz deviation, that would be correct. However, some of these stations have a signal that is really FM broadcast standard, i.e., 75 khz deviation with an FM-broadcast stereo pilot & subcarrier. This is against the TV rules. The FCC would also prefer that the video and audio content be related, but this is easily skirted by using a simple webcam for live "telecasts" of the DJ or video tied to the audio, e.g. music videos.

(emphasis mine)

Against the full-power TV rules.

See 73.682 (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2009/octqtr/47cfr73.682.htm),
73.687 (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2009/octqtr/47cfr73.687.htm), and
73.1570. (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2009/octqtr/47cfr73.1570.htm).

These rules define the permissible modulation levels for analog TV. (actually 25KHz, not 50)

Now, read 74.780, (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=74&SECTION=780&YEAR=2000&TYPE=TEXT) which lists those full-power regulations that apply to low-power stations. Note that 73.682, 73.687, and 73.1570 are not on this list. Check the rest of the LPTV rules here: (http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/47cfr74_00.html) (LPTV is 74.701 through 74.784)

Actually, the way I read 73.682(c), it would have been legal for full-power analog stations to use the FM stereo standard. (however, since the rest of 73.682 also applied to full-power analog stations, they'd be limited to 25KHz peak deviation)

Anyway, all of that is a lengthy to say, the way I read it, it is perfectly legal for a LPTV station to use FM radio modulation standards. At least, it will be for the next three years.

 

[MickeyD]

If they were in mono, using 50 khz deviation, that would be correct. However, some of these stations have a signal that is really FM broadcast standard, i.e., 75 khz deviation with an FM-broadcast stereo pilot & subcarrier. This is against the TV rules. The FCC would also prefer that the video and audio content be related, but this is easily skirted by using a simple webcam for live "telecasts" of the DJ or video tied to the audio, e.g. music videos.

(emphasis mine)

Against the full-power TV rules.

See 73.682 (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2009/octqtr/47cfr73.682.htm),
73.687 (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2009/octqtr/47cfr73.687.htm), and
73.1570. (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2009/octqtr/47cfr73.1570.htm).

These rules define the permissible modulation levels for analog TV. (actually 25KHz, not 50)

Now, read 74.780, (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=47&PART=74&SECTION=780&YEAR=2000&TYPE=TEXT) which lists those full-power regulations that apply to low-power stations. Note that 73.682, 73.687, and 73.1570 are not on this list. Check the rest of the LPTV rules here: (http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_00/47cfr74_00.html) (LPTV is 74.701 through 74.784)

Actually, the way I read 73.682(c), it would have been legal for full-power analog stations to use the FM stereo standard. (however, since the rest of 73.682 also applied to full-power analog stations, they'd be limited to 25KHz peak deviation)

Anyway, all of that is a lengthy to say, the way I read it, it is perfectly legal for a LPTV station to use FM radio modulation standards. At least, it will be for the next three years.

The way I see it is, if the FCC hasn't fined any channel 6 LPTV stations yet, it is perfectly alright with them. If the FCC doesn't care neither do I and that seems to apply pirates also.

 

[quadraphonic]

I don't think they'll be breaking the FCC rules about digital tv if they are only licensed for the FM band, unless they are licensed to channel 6 on the TV. So no grandfathering necessary? All will continue as usual, no?

No, it won't continue as usual.

88.1 is the lowest valid frequency for a FM license. (except in VERY limited cases where 87.9 is permitted. There are *TWO* valid licenses on 87.9.) These 87.7 stations are not licensed as FM stations.

They are, as TomT says, the sound channels of analog low-power TV stations. Through a loophole in the rules, they're allowed to broadcast with FM radio technical standards, but they remain licensed as TV stations.

The FCC has decided low-power TV stations must convert to digital in 2015. The 87.7 "FM" stations are currently legal (except Boston!) but their analog licenses will be canceled in three years.

I don't think it's accurate to say the "FrankenFMs" are operating "improperly", they *are* compliant with the rules. The loophole shouldn't be there, but it is...

I was thinking there were some FMs licensed to 87.7. My bad.

 

[nd2023]

I remember back when Pulse 87 was on the air I tuned a portable analog TV to channel 6 inside an electronics store in Queens. The video was the Pulse 87 logo and the audio definitely sounded loud and distorted. The video had static that varied with the beat of the music on the audio carrier.

At my location 30 miles from NYC, I couldn't "watch" Pulse 87 on channel 6, but I could faintly hear it behind the loud static. It came in with a little static on a car radio tuned to 87.7.

 

[cd637299]

In Miami we have Spanish Christian "Almavision Radio" on ch 6/87.7. All they care about is the 87.7, of course.....often you will see a freeze-frame of a minister, or even some sort of "video setting" text or something. They do run video on DT channel 29, a separate program, and most of the time, I believe, the DT 29 video is what you see on the analog 6.

When I was vacationing in Anchorage in 2003, I wanted to see what was on ch 6 while "The End" FM was running audio. My rental car had the stereo light on 87.7 (which surprised me, as this was my first experience with such stations). I was told where the transmitter was, but my pocket Casio TV could not pick up the ch 6.

Just before Almavision took over ch 6, I did catch Pulse 87 and also 87.7 "the L" out of Chicago, but never was able to catch a video signal....this was strictly 87.7 FM.

cd

 

[w9wi]

The other full-power TV rule that doesn't apply to LPTVs is the one limiting the relative power of the aural transmitter. For full-power stations, the power of the aural transmitter was limited to 22% of the power of the visual transmitter. A station with a 100,000-watt visual transmitter could use as much as 22,000 watts aural power. (there was no lower limit, but of course if you ran too little, nobody would get your sound!)

That rule doesn't apply to LPTVs. The aural power may be as much as 100% of visual. For channel 6, this means a power limit of 3,000 watts. There is no limit on the antenna height of a LPTV*. 3,000 watts from the Sears Tower is roughly 6dB down from a full Class B FM station -- that's pretty much negligible. While driving to Milwaukee, I find 87.7 The L covers almost as well as the "regular" Chicago stations like 93.1/93.9/94.7/etc...

Chris: when the Anchorage station first lit up, they didn't have a visual transmitter at all. The FCC called them on the carpet for that, and they added something -- I don't recall what.

* except the need to avoid interference to other stations. Given the small number of stations on channel 6, this is not difficult to accomplish.

 

[cd637299]

w9wi....

Before I took my trip to Anchorage, I got an e-mail from folks at The End 87.7 who told me IIRC that their video was nature scenery or similar. I was there after the incident you mentioned....I was not aware of that.

What I did not know, though, until later on, was the deal about audio-to-video ratio.

cd

 

[MickeyD]

I remember back when Pulse 87 was on the air I tuned a portable analog TV to channel 6 inside an electronics store in Queens. The video was the Pulse 87 logo and the audio definitely sounded loud and distorted. The video had static that varied with the beat of the music on the audio carrier.

At my location 30 miles from NYC, I couldn't "watch" Pulse 87 on channel 6, but I could faintly hear it behind the loud static. It came in with a little static on a car radio tuned to 87.7.

The audio portion of an analog TV signal always had range and it was only operating at a tenth of teh power of the video portion. Northern NE could get WCSH in POrtland and Southern NE could get Channel 6 in New Bedford.

 

[Ele]

I keep hearing that before the 87.7 ban is supposed to take effect there will be a number of challenges. I would bet a pizza that the ban will not be overturned, but I definitely would not stick my hand out and wager a Mitt sized $10,000.00 bet either. There had to be reasons, other than engineering, for the lawmakers to kick-the-can down way down the road. Lots can (and likely will) happen between now and then.

 

[semoochie]

87.7 is not an FM frequency. It's a TV frequency and TV is digital. It's just a matter of time and that time is 2015.

 

[Ele]

No one is claiming 87.7 is designated as a FM freq. Regarding what will happen to 87.7. . . no one knows. The FCC simply kicked-the-can down the road to 2015 because the legal challenges from 87.7 owners were too problematic to overcome.

Keep in mind 87.7 was supposed to be derailed in 2011. Plenty of arguments ensued on whether or not 87.7 would or should survive. The dyed in the wool engineering types were adamantly opposed to the continuation of 87.7 and were delighted that the FCC issued a 2011 mandate. Opps, did not happen. Will it happen in 2015? The same people saying it would happen in 2011 will now make the same claim for 2015, and the ones saying “not so fast” will claim there is more to come.

IMHO: This reminds me of a football game where there the ref makes a call on the field and the call is thrown upstairs for review. The review in football is immediate, in politics, not so much because we’re talking about a political football (big difference).

 

[Bongwater]

87.7 is not an FM frequency. It's a TV frequency and TV is digital. It's just a matter of time and that time is 2015.

I agree. But most radios already tune to 87.5 (at least.) And if TV cannot use them, FM radio CAN.

I still think it's time to expand the FM band. Any extra frequencies are GOOD frequencies.....