870AM in Tampa/St. Pete

[93-3TheSurge]

Can you really pull in 870AM WWL in the Tampa/St Petersburg area during daytime hours? According to the coverage map below, you can, but it seems hard to believe that you can pull in a station 473 miles away during daytime ops.

http://www.wwlradio.net/CoverageMap.htm

 

[cd637299]

You bet you can! Although not a super strong signal to where it would make the ratings, WWL's path makes it easily to the FL West Coast. Been there, done that. WIST 690 makes it to parts of the coast also (680 St Pete & 690 Cuba would cause a problem in the Tampa Bay area). I went to a place called Levy (County) Park, and with a Superadio have heard 690, 870, and even 600 & possibly 800 from New Orleans....of course, not strong, but it was there.

cd

 

[smedge2006]

Another problem for WWL anywhere south of New Port Richey is splatter from WGUL on 860. North of there, it's listenable day and night, with some Cuban interference in the background. Easily the strongest signal and the only 24-hour AM service in many Panhandle beach areas.

It can cover all that ground because the signal is cutting across the Gulf, and salt water is 1,000 times or so more conductive than ground, especially Florida sand. Notice the WWL signal doesn't go much more than 100 miles inland.

Wonder how all that oil just south of WWL's transmitter would affect conductivity?

 

[cd637299]

Another problem for WWL anywhere south of New Port Richey is splatter from WGUL on 860. North of there, it's listenable day and night, with some Cuban interference in the background. Easily the strongest signal and the only 24-hour AM service in many Panhandle beach areas.

It can cover all that ground because the signal is cutting across the Gulf, and salt water is 1,000 times or so more conductive than ground, especially Florida sand. Notice the WWL signal doesn't go much more than 100 miles inland.

Wonder how all that oil just south of WWL's transmitter would affect conductivity?





I forgot about WGUL....!! About 50 or more miles either north OR south of Clearwater/Dunedin, and WWL would pop up.

cd

 

[dwtpa97]

Going back to the 1950s (or so), before local 860 went on the air in Clearwater, WWL was receivable 24 hours a day in Tampa (and I'm talking about on a standard indoor console radio, not a Superadio!). As someone previously stated, the signal was not loud enough, compared with local stations, for it to be considered in the local ratings. Also, at night back then, New Orleans' WTIX 690 and WNOE 1060 were regulars, but not clear enough or loud enough to enjoy any kind of audience.

AM band congestion and Cuba have changed all that.

 

[sbe1]

Drive out to the beach and WWL really blasts in. So does 1600 out of Key West, but WRXB splatter will cover it up in Pinellas county. There is another New Orleans area station that comes in cant remember the freq, but it was in the 1300's. 590 up in the panhandle comes in good too. 580 WDBO comes in good too when the splatter from 570 isnt too bad.

 

[badjef]

Drive out to the beach and WWL really blasts in. So does 1600 out of Key West, but WRXB splatter will cover it up in Pinellas county. There is another New Orleans area station that comes in cant remember the freq, but it was in the 1300's. 590 up in the panhandle comes in good too. 580 WDBO comes in good too when the splatter from 570 isnt too bad.

The pattern for WWL is an interesting one.

It is pulled down from the North in favor of East and West coverage. A pattern such as this would normally be a "cardioid" patern that would look similar to a tree with a small trunk. In this case the tree has had its top branches lopped off to make it appear more flattopped.
There is a minor lobe to the south and major nulls in the 4 and 8 o'clock positions. We get sacrificed here on the West Coast of Florida South of Hernando County as a result.
The pattern works for WWL because there will be more energy concentrated on land in the ADI. The Gulf will aid the coverage for the boats there anyway.

We get some left over coverage as a result but severly reduced from what it would be if it were non-directional.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[fybush]

Jeff...are you confusing "pattern" and "coverage map"?

With just two towers, WWL's pattern (check it out at fccinfo.com) is a very simple cardioid, aimed north with a little nub of a back lobe going south.

But the incredible conductivity along the gulf coast pulls even that back lobe way out to the east and west, creating the coverage map you'd see at, say, radio-locator.

 

[badjef]

Jeff...are you confusing "pattern" and "coverage map"?

With just two towers, WWL's pattern (check it out at fccinfo.com) is a very simple cardioid, aimed north with a little nub of a back lobe going south.

But the incredible conductivity along the gulf coast pulls even that back lobe way out to the east and west, creating the coverage map you'd see at, say, radio-locator.

Thank's Scott.

I should have clarified that a little better.

As you can see by the FCC plot:
http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/429239-67135.pdf
The North portion of the cardioid is cut off.
The conductivity, and lack of anything in the way, would give WWL a substantially better south coverage than the electrical pattern would indicate.

The FCC takes their measurements within a certain distance in a 360 degree radius of the transmitter on land so any water coverage is a benefit to the station but not very marketable. Only of use to us as DXers.

IIRC, a 0 degree phased 2 antenna array would give an E-W pattern, given the N-S positioning on the antennas. So, they are tuned slightly from "0" to achieve the existing pattern.

But, in any event, I get very poor reception from here because of 860 in New Port Ritchie.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[ALBX]

Not only does WWL make it to the West coast of Florida, (I'm in Naples, and can pick it up about 25 miles inland daytime) but in New Orleans I was able to receive WFLA 970 (prior to their power increase) and WDAE (620) during the day.

 

[badjef]

Not only does WWL make it to the West coast of Florida, (I'm in Naples, and can pick it up about 25 miles inland daytime) but in New Orleans I was able to receive WFLA 970 (prior to their power increase) and WDAE (620) during the day.

Between the signal of 970 and 620, the 620 has a much better N-S signal and can be picked up in the panhandle not because of the electrical pattern, but because of its location as it straddles the Gandy Causeway on the St. Pete side of the Bay.
The antennas were replaced about 4 years ago.

Even with 970's increased power, they do not have as good N-S with 25kw as they did with 5kw. The E-W was where the improvement was noticed. I used to lose it on I-4 at SR27. Now I keep it considerably further into Orlando.

The reason for both to be heading east is because, at the time, the thinking was that was where the population was moving.

Since the pattern pulls in the North, 970 simuls on 97.9-HD2. WXTB's signal goes a lot further North than 970.

All 3 CC stations are very similar patterns - 620, 970, and 1250 - inasmuch as the East signal was important at the time of the improvements.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Ai4i]

Going back to the 1950s (or so)

And in the early 70's, I could grab them in a parking lot where I attended school in North Miami...yes, mid-day groundwave.

AM band congestion and Cuba have changed all that.

You got that right!