880 signal

[davideduardo]

I do remember articles going around that KNX and KGO OTA signal can be heard in China and Philippines at night.

... by DXers and with extreme difficulty. KGO has a null towards SE Asia, so it would be an incredible catch.

While North American stations are on a 10 kHz separation plan, Asia uses 9 kHz so many channels are open if you have a good receiver, such as a vintage R8 Drake or similar. But for the average listener, neither station is ever going to be heard no matter how hard they try.

How often do US Dxers hear those countries?

 

[recto101]

I do remember articles going around that KNX and KGO OTA signal can be heard in China and Philippines at night.

... by DXers and with extreme difficulty. KGO has a null towards SE Asia, so it would be an incredible catch.

While North American stations are on a 10 kHz separation plan, Asia uses 9 kHz so many channels are open if you have a good receiver, such as a vintage R8 Drake or similar. But for the average listener, neither station is ever going to be heard no matter how hard they try.

How often do US Dxers hear those countries?

I never use an OTA radio to get DX Philippines. I use the webstream to get China and Philippine radio.

 

[davideduardo]

I never use an OTA radio to get DX Philippines. I use the webstream to get China and Philippine radio.

When the band was much less congested in the 70's, and using a top of the line R390A receiver with Collins mechanical filters in it, I never heard either the Philippines or China on medium wave. From central AZ, I did get New Zealand, Hawaii, Australia, and Kota Kinabalu as well as weak carriers from Japan, but not even the high power VOA in the Philappines or one of the just-under-a-megawatt stations in China.

The conclusion is that, save for a few DX catches by experienced DXers, KGO and KNX are not generally DXable in the last half-Century in those places.

 

[SonoSational18]

The St. George UT station is on 890 and definitely not a daytimer. I once picked them up in Anaheim, CA at night like a local. KRVN/880 is also a full-timer. Keep in mind that there can occasionally be atypical signal propagation. This might result in a station being heard in an area that should be intheir null or AM signals skipping in broad daylight. In southern Ohio, I once heard WCBS under WRFD early in the afternoon. I also heard WCFL (now WMVP) from Chicago in New Jersey around 3pm one day. There may also be times when a station is either purposely or accidentally running their daytime pattern after dark. Stations sometimes test a daytime array in the middle of the night.

 

[radioman148]

In the 60s I picked up WCBS, WNBC, WABC, & WBZ in Seattle. As late as the early 80s I heard WCBS in Southern California after KRVN signed off.
Today you can still pick up WCBS in the UK if you try one of the receivers at Global Tuners.

 

[cyberdad]

Today you can still pick up WCBS in the UK if you try one of the receivers at Global Tuners.

Same goes for WFAN, WOR, and WABC if you use the Global Tuners online receiver located in Northern Ireland. Then there's WBBR....perhaps the easiest and Most reliable North American signal in Europe. It helps (usually) that Europe (along with Africa and Asia) uses 9khz spacing. The result being that most North American stations thus come in on "split" channels across the pond.

As for WCBS, in addition to the Northern Ireland receiver, I've also snagged it on online receivers based in Sweden and Germany. No luck, however, "barefoot" with a couple of good portable units while traveling over there.

 

[badjef]

Picking up a station that is "streaming" their audio online does not qualify since you are not using the over the air (OTA) signal.

Anybody can find a website and listen to an audio feed.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[del_griffith]

There was a 5000 watt daytimer in Columbus, OH (they are now 23,000 watts day, 6,100 critical hours) on 880. In 1978, the area was hammered by a blizzard. They station got FCC permission to operate past sunset during the weather emergency.

They received a letter or phone calls from people in California listening to the coverage.

And that with only 5,000 watts.

 

[davideduardo]

There was a 5000 watt daytimer in Columbus, OH (they are now 23,000 watts day, 6,100 critical hours) on 880. In 1978, the area was hammered by a blizzard. They station got FCC permission to operate past sunset during the weather emergency.

The FCC does not grant permission to daytimers to stay on during an emergency nor to severely directional night facility stations to operate with day facilities. Paraphrasing the FCC rules, a station may make this determination on its own, and may broadcast emergency information provided it does not run commercials while not on the licensed values.

 

[DanStrassberg]

The St. George UT station is on 890 and definitely not a daytimer. I once picked them up in Anaheim, CA at night like a local. KRVN/880 is also a full-timer. Keep in mind that there can occasionally be atypical signal propagation. This might result in a station being heard in an area that should be intheir null or AM signals skipping in broad daylight. In southern Ohio, I once heard WCBS under WRFD early in the afternoon. I also heard WCFL (now WMVP) from Chicago in New Jersey around 3pm one day. There may also be times when a station is either purposely or accidentally running their daytime pattern after dark. Stations sometimes test a daytime array in the middle of the night.

St George UT on 890 and Lexington NE on 880 are not merely full-timers; they are ex Class II-A AMs. The II-A class was created by "breaking down" half of the Class I-A clear channels. (I believe that a total of 13 I-A channels were affected.) One Class II-A was assigned to each "broken-down" I-A frequency. Today, the ex-II-As are simply Class Bs, but when these stations first took to the air on their I-A frequencies, the only other US station on the channel at night was the dominant I-A. Class II-As were theoretically allowed some protected nighttime skywave service, but in practice the protected skywave coverage was minimal at best and in many cases probably did not exist at all. Class II-As had to (and ex II-As still have to) protect the co-channel ex I-A's 0.5 mV/m 50% skywave contour. II-As' nighttime coverage was limited to areas outside the dominant co-channel Class I-A's 25 microvolt/meter 10% skywave contour.

 

[radioman148]

Today you can still pick up WCBS in the UK if you try one of the receivers at Global Tuners.

Same goes for WFAN, WOR, and WABC if you use the Global Tuners online receiver located in Northern Ireland. Then there's WBBR....perhaps the easiest and Most reliable North American signal in Europe. It helps (usually) that Europe (along with Africa and Asia) uses 9khz spacing. The result being that most North American stations thus come in on "split" channels across the pond.

As for WCBS, in addition to the Northern Ireland receiver, I've also snagged it on online receivers based in Sweden and Germany. No luck, however, "barefoot" with a couple of good portable units while traveling over there.

I did pick up WCBS in London with the radio near the window of my hotel room in 1977. This was right before London sunrise. I doubt that I could do that today with all the noise.

 

[WNTIRadio]

Picking up a station that is "streaming" their audio online does not qualify since you are not using the over the air (OTA) signal.

Anybody can find a website and listen to an audio feed.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Jeff, these are web controlled tuners that stream their audio back to you. So yes, they are actual OTA signals being picked up by (mostly) Icom PCR-1500 style boxes, with some Yaesu and Kenwood models thrown in. Maybe the occasional JRC or Drake, whatever can be computer controlled. Pretty cool site.

I have a PCR-1500 that I've been thinking about adding to the pool, just haven't gotten around to it.

 

[badjef]

Picking up a station that is "streaming" their audio online does not qualify since you are not using the over the air (OTA) signal.

Anybody can find a website and listen to an audio feed.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Jeff, these are web controlled tuners that stream their audio back to you. So yes, they are actual OTA signals being picked up by (mostly) Icom PCR-1500 style boxes, with some Yaesu and Kenwood models thrown in. Maybe the occasional JRC or Drake, whatever can be computer controlled. Pretty cool site.

I have a PCR-1500 that I've been thinking about adding to the pool, just haven't gotten around to it.

The key word is "streaming". You can be anywhere listening to the audio, but you aren't there with the radio. A relationship between the radio and person is lost.

I was also looking for one to put on as well. My AM reception is very poor. Too much electrical interference.

But if you are looking at DX-ing, I would submit to you that listening in that manner does not qualify in the discussion.

An antenna, AM (/FM) reception radio, and electric power (batteries or "holes").

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[del_griffith]

There was a 5000 watt daytimer in Columbus, OH (they are now 23,000 watts day, 6,100 critical hours) on 880. In 1978, the area was hammered by a blizzard. They station got FCC permission to operate past sunset during the weather emergency.

The FCC does not grant permission to daytimers to stay on during an emergency nor to severely directional night facility stations to operate with day facilities. Paraphrasing the FCC rules, a station may make this determination on its own, and may broadcast emergency information provided it does not run commercials while not on the licensed values.

You are technically correct. But they did call the FCC to verbally advise and to make sure it was ok. And they did receive a telegram a bit later confirming the okay. And maybe it's because the station isn't a stand alone station in the market, but does have a big signal. Most of the emergency language appears to be for a sole source if you will in the area.

 

[Jay Walker]

DXing from South Central Kansas in the 60's through the 70's I never was able to receive any of the NY stations. I always thought that odd but figured I was in an area that was either over-shot or under-shot by the first "bounce" or because 770 KOB "owned" the frequency in my location Never could hear 880, 660, or 770.

I used a variety of receivers, Hammerlund, Collins, Hallicrafters, Zenith TO's as well as the usual "All American Five". Antennas were for the most part long wires and rotatable loops.

Nightly regulars were KFI, KOA, KSL, KOB, KNX, XELO/PJB/CKLW, XEX, XEG, XERF, KOMA, KFAB, WHO, WLS, WBBM, WWWE, WLW, KSTP, WLAC, WSM, WSB, KDKA and pretty much all points in between. Try as I might I never had success with DXing further north east than KDKA.

As a current avid ham radio operator of a converted classic Western Electric 451 AM broadcast transmitter on 1885 khz on 160 meters it's easy to work CONUS including the formally elusive northeastern New England states. I attribute this to the "near HF" spectrum characteristics of 160m compared to 880 khz at 341 meters.

Fun stuff...

 

[nd2023]

I heard WCBS 880 in Miami Beach one day in February 2008 in the daytime. I could only hear it while standing in the water.

 

[Doctor_Technical]

Hope that wasn't an ac-powered radio

 

[badjef]

I heard WCBS 880 in Miami Beach one day in February 2008 in the daytime. I could only hear it while standing in the water.

That was a long extension cord.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[nd2023]

I heard WCBS 880 in Miami Beach one day in February 2008 in the daytime. I could only hear it while standing in the water.

That was a long extension cord.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Obviously it was a battery powered radio. Isn't this site full of radio geeks who would take a radio to the beach just to see what they can get?

 

[badjef]

I heard WCBS 880 in Miami Beach one day in February 2008 in the daytime. I could only hear it while standing in the water.

That was a long extension cord.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

Obviously it was a battery powered radio. Isn't this site full of radio geeks who would take a radio to the beach just to see what they can get?

Yes! And PROUD of it!

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!