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90's

CC's experiment with an eclectic "GenX" 90's pop format in Louisville is doing great (12+ AQH up 2.0 to 3.8 to 4.3 since Spring).

Obviously even THINKING about something so "exotic" would give a local exec at CC/Columbus or any local big signal a myocardial infarction.  So I hope none are reading, and mega-obviously no such station is in the cards for a good Columbus signal.

Nonetheless, I'd be interested in any opinions on what you think of the music mix.

http://www.yes.com/#WLGX
 
Looks like a great mix of music to me. Actually it looks like they go into the late 80s and early 2000s as well(I saw Def Leppard's "Animal" from '87 and "Take Me Out" from '04 on there as well. If I was programming a station like GenX Radio that's exactly what i'd do to give the station a broader music base to pick from.
 
alans613 said:
Looks like a great mix of music to me.  Actually it looks like they go into the late 80s and early 2000s as well(I saw Def Leppard's "Animal" from '87 and "Take Me Out" from '04 on there as well.  If I was programming a station like GenX Radio that's exactly what i'd do to give the station a broader music base to pick from. 

Right.  A Sean Ross article comparing the current attempts by various stations to do 90's all have a different flavor.  He talked about how this one had the broader approach in terms or era and music style.  Some are strictly 90's and alternative-leaning, while others are strictly 90's and rhythmic leaning.  One interesting point is that these stations, to one degree or another, are mixing songs that you would have had to listen to multiple stations to hear back when they were new.

OK, now the ongoing lament, episode 34:  I know local radio isn't programmed for "me," but even so it has to tell you something when you can name any  OTHER Top 50 market (actually more like Top 100) and I can name at least one good-signal station that I really like there that is performing well-to-oustanding.  That's meant as rhetorical, but if anyone wants to actually name a market, I'll name the station (it most certainly won't always be popular among posters here, but again the point is that it's doing well with listeners).  The ONLY market where I can't name one is Columbus.  It's the ONLY market where I can't name a single big-signal station I like, and NO, that's NOT just a self-fulfilling negative prejudice, given that in the 80's and 90's there was usually at least one good decent-signal I liked at any given time (not that Columbus radio was exactly "stellar" even then).   Any complaining  I did back then was more along the lines of, "well, we have station X which is good, but it would be nice to also have one like station Y in Cincinnati."   Quite different than my current, far more troubling "we have NOTHING I like, and we're the only market that doesn't" refrain.

I know I'm repeating the obvious, but Columbus radio has become hopeless.  Consolidation REALLY hurt this big-signal-deficient market, given that the dominant owner's local execs are the most change-resistant anywhere. But they still pull in some good revenue because, like Rosalie, "they got the power."
 
It's funny this was brought up, as I litterally tuned into this station Friday night. it was awesome! The only thing I wish they would've added were 90's CHR esk jingles. Other than that though, simply awesome! You can go throw it on 103.9! Haha
 
I listened for a little while online and I must admit that it's really not that bad of a station. They do play some 80's and early 2000's along with the 90's and it's a really good solid mix of music. Clear Channel seems to be hitting the nail on the head with some of their newer formats but unfortunately they're in every other city but Columbus.
 
May be CC can put this on an HD2 channel somewhere for now? I know there are only like 6 of us in Columbus with a digital receiver, but hey it's better than that god awful "beat" on 97.9 HD2
 
lovejamminoldies said:
I agree with dawg. Although instead of ATL's Groove, I'd like to see Detroit's 1067 The Beat

Wow! I just got done listening to The Beat online and it's freaking awesome! I'm starting to love Clear Channels new cookies and I'm hungry in Columbus.
 
dawg4life said:
lovejamminoldies said:
I agree with dawg. Although instead of ATL's Groove, I'd like to see Detroit's 1067 The Beat

Wow! I just got done listening to The Beat online and it's freaking awesome! I'm starting to love Clear Channels new cookies and I'm hungry in Columbus.

Not gonna happen here, even though a format like CC's 90's approach or CC's Detroit 106.7 could make a lot more sense for 93.3 WLZT than what they're doing now.  Anything would.  Decent-signal radio execs aren't merely conservative in Columbus, they're pathologically conservative.  They no doubt believe operators of the stations we're talking about in this thread are absolutely out of their minds and are destined to fail miserably.

Is there a radio psychiatrist out there somewhere?  Maybe we can all pitch in and buy them a few sessions.  Well, we can always dream...
 
That would make more sense for 93.3 than what they're doing now.  As I said, anything would, whether it's something I would personally like or not. Also, these formats are out for the other super-obvious l candidate for change, 99.7 (which just got an anemic 2.4 AQH). Of course that's because hell will freeze over before Hal will put anything non-rock on Nabco's big signal..
 
Nu_Roo_2 said:
dawg4life said:
lovejamminoldies said:
I agree with dawg. Although instead of ATL's Groove, I'd like to see Detroit's 1067 The Beat

Wow! I just got done listening to The Beat online and it's freaking awesome! I'm starting to love Clear Channels new cookies and I'm hungry in Columbus.

Not gonna happen here, even though a format like CC's 90's approach or CC's Detroit 106.7 could make a lot more sense for 93.3 WLZT than what they're doing now. Anything would. Decent-signal radio execs aren't merely conservative in Columbus, they're pathologically conservative. They no doubt believe operators of the stations we're talking about in this thread are absolutely out of their minds and are destined to fail miserably.

Is there a radio psychiatrist out there somewhere? Maybe we can all pitch in and buy them a few sessions. Well, we can always dream...

Oh I agree with you 100% Nu Roo that we'll never see any of those formats here including GenX because CC Columbus wants to protect their precious little WNCI. LOL, I don't think a radio shrink will help CC in this case. I almost think CC Columbus likes to do what they do in spite of us. I seems like the more we complain and the more we ask for change, the more it stays the same (or gets worse in some cases).
 
dawg4life said:
Nu_Roo_2 said:
dawg4life said:
lovejamminoldies said:
I agree with dawg. Although instead of ATL's Groove, I'd like to see Detroit's 1067 The Beat

Wow! I just got done listening to The Beat online and it's freaking awesome! I'm starting to love Clear Channels new cookies and I'm hungry in Columbus.

Not gonna happen here, even though a format like CC's 90's approach or CC's Detroit 106.7 could make a lot more sense for 93.3 WLZT than what they're doing now.  Anything would.  Decent-signal radio execs aren't merely conservative in Columbus, they're pathologically conservative.  They no doubt believe operators of the stations we're talking about in this thread are absolutely out of their minds and are destined to fail miserably.

Is there a radio psychiatrist out there somewhere?  Maybe we can all pitch in and buy them a few sessions.  Well, we can always dream...

Oh I agree with you 100% Nu Roo that we'll never see any of those formats here including GenX because CC Columbus wants to protect their precious little WNCI. LOL, I don't think a radio shrink will help CC in this case. I almost think CC Columbus likes to do what they do in spite of us. I seems like the more we complain and the more we ask for change, the more it stays the same (or gets worse in some cases).

How much has CC's Kiss-FM CHR in Louisville dropped since CC's 90's station there began its climb to #4 12+?  Try NONE.  Granted Louiville's Kiss has never been a ratings-topper like NCI, but it's also mainstream CHR and THE 90's STATION IS *NOT* CANNIBALIZING IT!   CC managers in *normal* markets (aka everywhere but Columbus)  GET IT.  Having some degree of demo overlap (certainly not *music* overlap in this case) wouldn't kill the golden goose, it would be *synergistic*. 

But why am I talking logic and rationality when they are frowned upon locally?  With Columbus so under-radioed in big signals, the local CC brains can easily make their numbers while continuing to use the first truly-full-market signal to come to Columbus in 40 (oops, now it's 45) years, 93.3,  just to get back at 'dem dirty rats at Saga who opposed the move-in.  All while 93.3 perennially woefully under-performs,  and deprives Columbus even a smidge of the variety you can find in smaller markets like Louisville and Tulsa.  The local execs aren't "trying," they're just coasting --  and they're getting away with it due to the crime against Columbus perpetrated by the FCC when it grossly under-allocated the market long ago.

And you know dawg, I think you're really onto something.  If local big-signal execs, esp CC, can become so CONSUMED by choosing formats according to how high they fall on the let's-settle-a-score meter, they've probably sunk to a point where they really COULD be petty enough to purposely avoid doing something just because the "mouths" here suggest it.  That SHOULD be  a preposterous suggestion, but eerily, it's not.  They're that far gone.

Wonder if I can become petty, vindictive and paranoid enough to score a gig as an exec at CC/Columbus?  Or, more likely, you just have to be willing to carry out the directives of the TOP local guy, who apparently fits that description to a tee, and can get away running his business like that via the miracle of under-allocation.  Settling scores and coasting is SOOOO much more fun than maximizing revenue, providing new choices to the country's most boring market (as Rich Meyer called it before he quit as WNCI PD and started Mediabase), and trying to activate some dormant brain cells

Oops, I'm starting to sound like *I* need a shrink.  Which means I'd be a GREAT CC/Columbus exec!  Better strike while the iron's hot, before I come to my senses!
 
It wouldn't surprise me if Clear Channel really does purposely deny Columbus any of their better formats because of some kind of crazy, illogical, and unjustifiable reason. Nu Roo, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever that you would do a much better job than most of those schmucks at Columbus' Clear Channel.
 
Nu_Roo_2 said:
and they're getting away with it due to the crime against Columbus perpetrated by the FCC when it grossly under-allocated the market long ago.

I will have to disagree with this statement. The FCC granted licenses early on for FM, and it granted some big ones (WNCI) to entice AM owners to move into FM. Not many were interested. They didn't say, "Columbus, you're pretty small, you only get X big signals". There simply was not enough interest by Columbus business to get them on the air before all of the smaller surrounding communities. Even many of the smaller signals only came on the air in the 90s. I moved here in 1992 and there was A LOT of white space in the Columbus radio spectrum. So now we are faced with smaller operators getting out of the business due to financial troubles and the big guys shuffling things around to get the transmitter a few miles closer to the metro.
 
xiradiodotcom said:
Nu_Roo_2 said:
and they're getting away with it due to the crime against Columbus perpetrated by the FCC when it grossly under-allocated the market long ago.

I will have to disagree with this statement. The FCC granted licenses early on for FM, and it granted some big ones (WNCI) to entice AM owners to move into FM. Not many were interested. They didn't say, "Columbus, you're pretty small, you only get X big signals". There simply was not enough interest by Columbus business to get them on the air before all of the smaller surrounding communities. Even many of the smaller signals only came on the air in the 90s. I moved here in 1992 and there was A LOT of white space in the Columbus radio spectrum. So now we are faced with smaller operators getting out of the business due to financial troubles and the big guys shuffling things around to get the transmitter a few miles closer to the metro.

Actually, Columbus radio history shows *quicker* embracing of FM locally than elsewhere -- both by owners and listeners. After bringing in a smart national consultant, WNCI shot to the top in 1975, decimating  supposedly-invincible AM Top 40 powerhouse WCOL in what seemed like a split second.  In most markets the big AM Top 40's kept going strong into the early 80's.  Also, Columbus already had a lot of non-simulcast programming on 92.3, 96.3, 97.1, and especially 97.9 (originally classical in the 60's as WRFD-FM!), long before the FCC dictated a reduction in simulcasting on AM.   But because of the paltry allocations, move-in attempts started earlier here  than elsewhere, though rarely effectively done (a very key point).   This includes 103.9 WBBY (certainly no better signal than WTDA has today), which was fired up in about 1970 as a Westerville station (which it remains) targeted at Columbus.  Local listeners were so receptive to FM that WBBY-FM even topped the then-FM-Market-Leader, full-signal 97.1 WBNS-FM (then Beautiful Music) a couple times.

Interestingly, the early listener receptiveness to FM here was borne of the similar, earlier  problem of FCC under-allocating Columbus *AM* signals as well.  Most markets this size have long-time big-signal AMs, too, including 50k and even clear channel (broadcasting  term, not company) 50k's like WLW in Cincinnati.  Even smallish Ft. Wayne's WOWO-AM was 50k (clear channel, I believe) until Inner City bought it the 90's or early 00's simply to turn down the juice and thus allow their NYC AM to broadcast at night (and/or increase power -- I forget exactly which).

Heck, Columbus got short shrift from the FCC in TV allocations, too.  Compare Columbus's TV allocations to markets half the size.  Cable and satellite were what kept the TV situation from being as maddening as the radio situation.   And BTW, that TV under-allocation is one of the key reasons Columbus became a pioneer non-rural cable market for Time Warner, and why they were so successful here.  All these stories, radio and TV, trace back to the original under-allocation of full-market broadcast-outlets -- AM-FM-TV -- by the FCC.

The original FCC under-allocations for Columbus (both AM and FM) resulted from the convergence of multiple factors, including (but not limited to):
-- Columbus' proximity to other large/medium markets; the fact that the market, while not exactly "small," hadn't grown yet and was certainly not projected to be the hotbed of growth that it turned out to be
--  Lack of lobbying aggressiveness against the paltry allocations
--  Far-poorer move-in execution here (e.g., in 40 years Columbus scored only one true full-make move-in, CC's wretchedly-wasted-as-a-WSNY-needler 93.3, while Indy has multiple move-is that boom over the whole metro).

Another factor could have been lack of aggressiveness (and political clout?) by local broadcasters back when the FCC originally made its AM, FM and TV allocations -- which is sort of parallel to your "not interested" comment, although I would change "not interested" to "lackadaisical and non-aggressive" -- very much in tune with the mantra local big-signal broadcasters live by today.  And once they saw that under-allocations actually helped the bottom line of stations the DO have big FM signals (as the former WSNY GM once admitted in a Columbus Monthly article), they were certainly in no hurry to rock the boat!

As for the unrealized possibility other, more aggressive broadcasters coming in and, say, accomplishing better move-ins as they did in markets like Indy, well, Columbus' traditional anonymity certainly didn't help, either.

Then consolidation came along, and the fact that only one company, CC,  had the dollars and lawyer firepower to overcome unfavorable signal-protection patterns for Columbus was largely responsible for cementing the sorry scenario we're left with today.  A company whose local contingent has the luxury of wasting some decent move-ins (for petty -- even ugly --  reasons masquerading as "business decisions") and still being successful.  With the biggest indefensible travesty of course being how they continue to waste 93.3 as a "let's-get-back-at-em-for our opposing-our-move-ins" thorn instead of providing Columbus with something new like cutting-edge (???) markets like Louisville and Tulsa get.  Or even very-mainstream stuff like "modernized oldies" type Classic Hits that is doing unbelievably well across most of the country across the country, especially  with the soon-to-get-to-us PPM.

BTW, I'd sure be interested in know what VIABLE white space you say you found in the local FM band when you moved here in 1992.  Don't forget that it would take YEARS of legal wrangling before a Docket 80-90 drop-in could hit the airwaves.
 
P.S. since it's too late to edit again   The 1970 format Columbus listeners embraced on WBBY-FM despite the iffy signal was then-unusual for-FM AC & Oldies.  Also, I see there were a couple typos, punctuation errors, and redundancies, but the meaning should still be clear.
 
Nu_Roo_2 said:
BTW, I'd sure be interested in know what VIABLE white space you say you found in the local FM band when you moved here in 1992. Don't forget that it would take YEARS of legal wrangling before a Docket 80-90 drop-in could hit the airwaves.

Years are rough estimates, didn't look every one of them up:

New signals since late 80s
88.7 - 1996
91.5 - 2006
98.9 - 1988 (power increase in 1997)
101.1 - 1990
103.9 was in a never-ending CP after WBBY until 1998
104.3 - 1996
107.5 - 1996

Notable move-ins since 1992
93.3
102.5
103.5
105.7
106.7
107.9

If there was more business interest back in the 60s/70s and even 80s, they would have filed for available frequencies way before a lot of these stations popped up or moved in. The market was not big enough to support a large number of big FMs back when it was new, so a lot of adjacent channels in surrounding towns became the problem for expansion that we see today. Now we have to work with what we got. A quick look up north to Cleveland shows a few more big signals, but you have to consider it was a much bigger city (almost twice that of Columbus) back in the 60s/70s. The problem Columbus has is its growth was much later and we have the move-ins and rimshots to prove it. Is there format duplication, yes, but if other formats worked (read profitable) we would have them.
 
xiradiodotcom said:
Nu_Roo_2 said:
BTW, I'd sure be interested in know what VIABLE white space you say you found in the local FM band when you moved here in 1992.  Don't forget that it would take YEARS of legal wrangling before a Docket 80-90 drop-in could hit the airwaves.

Years are rough estimates, didn't look every one of them up:

New signals since late 80s
88.7 - 1996 
91.5 - 2006
98.9 - 1988 (power increase in 1997)
101.1 - 1990
103.9 was in a never-ending CP after WBBY until 1998
104.3 - 1996
107.5 - 1996

Notable move-ins since 1992
93.3
102.5
103.5
105.7
106.7
107.9

If there was more business interest back in the 60s/70s and even 80s, they would have filed for available frequencies way before a lot of these stations popped up or moved in. The market was not big enough to support a large number of big FMs back when it was new, so a lot of adjacent channels in surrounding towns became the problem for expansion that we see today. Now we have to work with what we got. A quick look up north to Cleveland shows a few more big signals, but you have to consider it was a much bigger city (almost twice that of Columbus) back in the 60s/70s. The problem Columbus has is its growth was much later and we have the move-ins and rimshots to prove it. Is there format duplication, yes, but if other formats worked (read profitable) we would have them.

This is all about commercial signals with viable coverage.  So we can immediately eliminate 8 of the 13 stations you listed (88.7, 91.5, 101.1, 103.9, 104.3, 103.5, 106.7 and 107.9).  This leaves only 5 on the list that aren't severely-limited in terms of ability to be competitive.   (106.7 is borderline, but since it doesn't pass the "downtown challenges" very well, I think it belongs on the handicapped list.)   IMPORTANTLY, the only true full market-coverage move-in is 93.3, as compared to at least three full-market-coverage move-ins in Indy -- which already had more top-quality allocations than Columbus despite being the same size.  Go back and look at historical data, and you'll see that commercial FM ALLOCATIONS for Columbus, even in the 60's, were fewer in number than for even, say Norfolk/Tidewater or Providence.

Beyond that key flaw in the analysis,  similar-sized markets like Indy further demonstrate problems with your other assertions.  Those assertions are mired in that inherently illogical "if it made sense, someone would have already done it" cop-out which is actually code for, "damn, why didn't *I* think of Facebook!"  That attitude, which local broadcasters and their apologists use as a catch-all excuse is really nothing more than acknowledging failure to seek out and successfully implement good business opportunities -- and serve a public need at the same time (they go hand-in-hand). The under-availability of good signals, and heavy ownership concentration of the REALLY good ones, allows CC and selected other local owners to remain successful even with that kind of backward thinking (or should I say "non-thinking?"  Please name another similar-sized market where only ONE company owns more than a single truly-full-market commercial signal.  That alone shows how bizarre the situation is in Columbus.

Chris, please note that these remarks are directed at the local radio execs & the FCC, and certainly not at you!  This is NOT intended as an "I'm right and you're wrong" type of reply.  I've always respected your opinions, and still do.  In fact, that's why I wasn't expecting to hear something like "if other formats worked (read profitable) we would have them" from you  How do we know with certainty what "won't work" if it hasn't even been tried; or wasn't on a TRULY viable signal?  (I could take that idea even further, but I've already hogged enough bandwidth :) )
 
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