92.3FM The Fan - Already Falling Into The WKNR Pitfalls

[richwithhatred]

I've listened to The Fan a good part of the week this week, and it's amazing to me how they've clearly made the decision to just be the FM version of WKNR instead of a. setting their own identity, and b. acting and sounding more professional like the national shows. To be clear here, it's all good to do "local" programming, be focused on Cleveland sports teams, etc., but there are several things that just make The Fan feel cheap and uninspired.

1. Why grab WKNR's imaging voice? Is that so we won't be able to tell the difference? Lame.

2. Why grab up WKNR's castoffs? Daryl Ruiter, BSK - Don't hate either of them, but question why guys that were deemed less good than Aaron Goldhammer and Chris Fedor would get jobs.

3. Giving the lame Cleveland "legendary callers" any credibility at all. Am I in the minority that finds The Bostonian, Hiram and Dick From Dayton to be a drain on any show they call into? How about as a station you don't prop these guys who get their "notoriety" from being on every talk show and ban them, since they obviously take the focus away from your new station and leave listeners thinking about how much they were liked, or hated, on 3WE or WKNR. Enough already.

4. Bull and the yelling has to go. I couldn't take it listening to Mad Dog Radio on XM, and I'm certainly not going to listen to a less tolerable version of it now.

5. Can we get a morning team that actually like each other? It's no secret that Kiley and Booms don't like each other. How about we get a couple of guys that like each other a bit more to create a more compelling vibe for the show. Say what you want about Roda and Reghi and all their stupid catchphrases, but it's clear listening to them that they like each other, which makes the local sports debate a bit more interesting.

Not impressed with the first week. I'm interested to hear other people's thoughts.

 

[Tim]

923TheFan's morning show is my least favorite daypart (the one guy sounds like he's trying to impersonate Dennis Miller)...and the show moves a bit slow for morning drive (when listeners time spent tuned to the station is short...rapid turnover on all stations..most people getting ready for and heading towards work). But, they're OK.

Otherwise, I couldn't disagree with you more with the rest of your comments.

There's always going to be more-noted callers like Hiram and Bostonian (and others) are for sportstalk in Cleveland. Besides, 923The Fan doesn't concentrate on just callers. They have a lot of interviews, which I love.

And, the hosts don't spend extended time talking about their personal lives (who cares?)...and boobs & hot chicks like KNR (etc.). I prefer to actually be around those type of ladies myself, than hear middle-aged men & kids TALK about wanting to be around them. LOL!

The weekend folks & team reporters are fine.

For a first week, considering they are on a frequency with limited coverage...I think 923The Fan has been pretty good. Not perfect, but pretty respectable.

Adam the Bull is just being himself. He sounds like a guy you'd sit next to at a ballgame...especially a football game. I think he's the best personality they have on the station.

It's, obviously, a work in progress. But, I give them a solid B+ for their first week.

 

[vjm]

I've listened to The Fan a good part of the week this week, and it's amazing to me how they've clearly made the decision to just be the FM version of WKNR instead of a. setting their own identity, and b. acting and sounding more professional like the national shows. To be clear here, it's all good to do "local" programming, be focused on Cleveland sports teams, etc., but there are several things that just make The Fan feel cheap and uninspired.

1. Why grab WKNR's imaging voice? Is that so we won't be able to tell the difference? Lame.

2. Why grab up WKNR's castoffs? Daryl Ruiter, BSK - Don't hate either of them, but question why guys that were deemed less good than Aaron Goldhammer and Chris Fedor would get jobs.

3. Giving the lame Cleveland "legendary callers" any credibility at all. Am I in the minority that finds The Bostonian, Hiram and Dick From Dayton to be a drain on any show they call into? How about as a station you don't prop these guys who get their "notoriety" from being on every talk show and ban them, since they obviously take the focus away from your new station and leave listeners thinking about how much they were liked, or hated, on 3WE or WKNR. Enough already.

4. Bull and the yelling has to go. I couldn't take it listening to Mad Dog Radio on XM, and I'm certainly not going to listen to a less tolerable version of it now.

5. Can we get a morning team that actually like each other? It's no secret that Kiley and Booms don't like each other. How about we get a couple of guys that like each other a bit more to create a more compelling vibe for the show. Say what you want about Roda and Reghi and all their stupid catchphrases, but it's clear listening to them that they like each other, which makes the local sports debate a bit more interesting.

Not impressed with the first week. I'm interested to hear other people's thoughts.

1. Paul Turner is a nationally known imaging voice, is the voice of ESPN Radio, and for numerous local stations all over the country. Why not go with the best?

2. BSK was cut from WKNR in 2004, when Salem owned the station due to budgetary reasons, and has had health problems in recent years. It's actually good to have him back. Ruiter got cut because he wasn't willing to work 20 hours a day for Ramen noodles, like a lot of the freshly graduated interns do over there. Hammer has employment for life at GKB (and we all know why), and Fedor is willing to work 20 hours a day for Ramen noodles, because he likes putting himself over as the smartest guy in the room, and will pull double duty at night (i.e. hosting "Gamenight" frequently) just to hear himself talk.

3. All cities have their "legendary callers" on the various talk shows. It's part of the territory.

4. Adam is a naturally enthusiastic sports fan, and is a guy who genuinely likes what he's doing. To have him not yell or get excited would come off as fake.

5. It's been a week...K and B have (so far) been all right. Chuck also knows he's on his last chance at being relevant on the radio, so he's been behaving himself. Give them a chance to find their groove.

 

[kaysguy]

The imaging voice does many of the CBS sports stations. If I hear right, he is the voice of WFAN in New York and the Pittsburgh station as well.

Hammer and Fedor aren't a yardstick to judge anyone by. They're locked in at WKNR because Craig K. has to keep them.

I think the Bull has been a pleasant surprise, he's better than the WFAN guy they sent to the Pittsburgh station and some of the weekend hosts on WFAN itself. Heck, I think he's a lot better than the Mad Dog.

Yeah, I can't stand Hiram either, but he's a caller, and as long as he's in line with everyone else, it's OK with me. You can add Ken in Brooklyn to your list, by the way.

 

[Rusty Muck]

1. Paul Turner was first taken by WKNR because Craig K. wanted to emulate the sound of WFAN/New York - which Paul has voiced for decades. All of his other ESPN affils used Turner as well.

CBS claimed rights to Paul for WKRK because... well, they could. If I'm not mistaken, he's in their primary employ because of WFAN. WKNR then replaced Paul last month with a cheap knockoff that is impersonating Paul, doing decently at it, I guess. But doesn't WKNR comes off as lame because they didn't get a newer, different voice to replace Paul instead of going for a copycat act?

Would Paul have been my first choice for WKRK? Not really. I understand WHY, but they could have taken two or three distinct imaging voices to mix it up (think the Randy James-era "Mix 106.5" of 1997). Just my $.02. But it's simple to see that WKRK is, in reality, borrowing heavily from WFAN's imaging and presentation.

(BTW, ESPN Radio is voiced by Jim Cutler - which WTAM also utilizes as their primary imaging voice.)


2. Aaron Goldhammer and Chris Fedor got jobs because of nepotism and rich parents (we've covered that before ad nauseum). They are insulated from any discipline, and have had their run of the place for over four years. Any other self-respecting station on the planet would have fired them long ago.

Those two are not respected in any way, either by listeners, sports media types, or local businessmen. (One local furniture retailer came dangerously close to yanking their WKNR account outright because of Aaron's antics during a supposed "live" remote...)

It's why people derisively call WKNR "Trust Fund Radio." Question why Craig K. sought fit to replace existing staff with less-talented and more-polarizing (and in some cases, deeply despised) folks like Aaron and Chris.


3. Every sports station all over the country has "signature callers." Just the way it is - from the late Dumpling, to Hiram, to Dick, to Ken in Brooklyn, to the Bostonian, even Harry P. - they just become a cult of personality (enough so that they wind up as subjects or content on Wikipedia articles for WFAN, WEEI, WIP, KFAN or WSCR!).

Not saying that this is a good or bad thing. It just is, wherever one goes across the county. I guess, if people want "fresh blood" in the regular caller front, just dial the studio number, no?

As for the Bostonian... didn't his act get dated in 1975? Lol. Boston can HAVE him.


4. Disagree regarding The Bull. This market had become too stale to begin with and needed a good shot of energy; Adam's easily the most energetic personality in this town now, outside of Chuck Galeti. He's a breath of fresh air.


5. If Kiley and Booms didn't like each other, Kevin Kiley never would have given up a plum midday job at WQAM/Miami to move up to Cleveland AND be reunited with Booms, no? I can see through the insults on-the-air - remember that Booms is an insult comic. But the two of them have shown clear respect for each other to have been reunited after an eight-year separation. And it doesn't come off as a kayfabe act - there's no phoniness or make-believe.

The show still clearly has some signs of rust remaining, but it's improved quite a bit since Monday (which is expected). I am interested in hearing how the other players on the show - Tony, Josh and Jeff - get integrated onto the show. Chances are all three of them can boost the energy level.

As for with Reghi and Roda, look, I respect them. But their main problem is... it's not a pairing of two distinct personalities. Consequently, that team doesn't come off as credible - some liken it to a bad guy version of "The View." And both of them fall under the "been there, tried that" category. For God sakes, Roda's been in an afternoon slot of some sort at WKNR for about 13 years!

 

[CleveRadioInsider]

To the original poster this town loves hearing the same voices over and over ad nauseum. If you dare to even bring up that you might want to have someone different to listen too people on message boards go crazy. It was nice today though that Ken Silverstein was not on in the morning like they originally planned. He should have been put out to pasture years ago.

 

[asterisk]

To the original poster this town loves hearing the same voices over and over ad nauseum. If you dare to even bring up that you might want to have someone different to listen too people on message boards go crazy. It was nice today though that Ken Silverstein was not on in the morning like they originally planned. He should have been put out to pasture years ago.

Ken was on this morning, and I think he sounded pretty good.

As for the station, it will take time for it to fully gel.

Kiley and Booms are getting their swing back, including their flair for the out there, yet topical, interview... Like having the exterminator on Friday morning.

Talking Heads really won't start until this week, although I will say that Daryl held his own with Andy on Thursday and sounds leaps and bounds better than when he was on KNR. Although I'm not a fan of his, I will give credit where it is due. I could take or leave the producers being on air.

I share the majority opinion on Bull. To me, the best piece of audio was when they had Eddie Mularz on the air, which became a bit uncomfortable. But hey, at least I know that Eddie is a "chain gang soldier."

Ken Carman has PBP to go up against... It's a tough draw, but he's managing it well.

In short, even the worst program is better than listening to tRBS

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Just some thoughts, here:

1. Why grab WKNR's imaging voice? Is that so we won't be able to tell the difference? Lame.

As others have pointed out here, Paul Turner images a whole bunch of the CBS sports radio stations, including WFAN. It makes sense that they'd want to continue that continuity in Cleveland, and quite frankly, they don't care that he was WKNR's imaging voice. He is THEIR voice.

I agree - why did WKNR pick up a Paul Turner clone, who was clearly coached to imitate his style? He's not bad...when he first started, a certain experienced voiceover guy on this board thought he was Paul

But more than getting a new voice, I'm wondering why the Galleria at least didn't offer up some guy who is not aping Paul Turner, knowing that Paul was going to be on their competitor.

CBS sees Paul Turner as their own, not as the now-former imaging voice of the competition.

2. Why grab up WKNR's castoffs? Daryl Ruiter, BSK - Don't hate either of them, but question why guys that were deemed less good than Aaron Goldhammer and Chris Fedor would get jobs.

The fact that neither the BSK or Daryl are in the Galleria now doesn't make them "castoffs". Daryl, as stated above, actually left on his own (and really, he did), because he basically was working 20 hours a day and likely getting paid not at all commensurate with the work he did.

IIRC, Kendall lost his place due to budget cuts, then, of course, he had health issues.

Neither Daryl nor the BSK were not "deemed less good" than Hammer or Fedor, period.

Actually, considering, The Fan picked up very few 'KNR types.

There's Daryl, and the BSK (doing a weekend show), Jeff Thomas (ex-Metro type not actually employed by WKNR), Ken Silverstein (weekender) and Lindsey Foltin, the only person directly hired over from the Galleria.

Of note: Aside from part-timer Foltin, no CURRENT 'KNR employees were taken. No talent raids, and a staff mostly made up of no one who has worked at either the Galleria or Broadview Road (Kiley, Booms, Baskin, Phelps, Adam, Dustin Fox, Ken Carman, Lima, Lull, etc.) EVER.

And that list covers all the prime, weekday time slots.

Heck, there are three people with 92.3-in-the-past (Booms, Baskin and Thomas) and four Metro people (Thomas, Ruiter, Loede and Lull).

3. Giving the lame Cleveland "legendary callers" any credibility at all. Am I in the minority that finds The Bostonian, Hiram and Dick From Dayton to be a drain on any show they call into?

I actually agree with you on this, except for one side note: I'd like to see The Fan develop its own callers, not just grab onto those who have gotten some notoriety on WKNR or other stations.

"Known callers" are a very important part of CBS' sports talk stations. In fact, The Bull got a call his first day on 92.3 from one of the WFAN regulars. These people are very much part of the formula at WFAN...when one of them, a woman, died, both callers and hosts grieved for her. (See the WFAN Wikipedia article for more.)

I don't mind the "known callers". I just want new ones from 92.3. The Bostonian makes me want to dive for the radio tuner.

4. Bull and the yelling has to go. I couldn't take it listening to Mad Dog Radio on XM, and I'm certainly not going to listen to a less tolerable version of it now.

He's loud, and energetic, but does The Bull really "yell" all that much? I don't get that idea, and I've listened to him more than any other 92.3 host.

I guess I "get" Adam. It's not a schtick. That's how he really is, and he comes off as being "real"...his WFAN listeners have said the same thing.

Right now, he leaps off the dial compared to his compadres in the Halle Building.

5. Can we get a morning team that actually like each other? It's no secret that Kiley and Booms don't like each other.

I've heard that, but maybe it's just their chemistry. I know others who toss insults back and forth, but are actually the best of friends outside the studio.

This doesn't seem to be the case for Kiley and Booms, but they seem to have enough of a working relationship that Kiley moved all the way to Cleveland to do a local morning drive show with his former partner.

That said, this is my least favorite show on the station. I just can't get past Booms' voice. Thankfully, my sleeping schedule has me missing it most days.

 

[Tim]

WKNR is "the way they are" because the powers that be at 850 think that's what live, local sportstalk is all about in 2011.

CBS sees it differently....as they are a more traditional type of sportstalk.

The public will eventually decide which style is preferred.

As for the relative quality of each staff...remember: Cleveland is something like the 25th market....not top 10. Every voice on either station won't be a "star". Star's cost big bucks, and much like the Indians or any medium-large market sports team...you can't afford to have an all-star at every position.

But, that be said, I really like 923The Fan. I think they've done a very good job for just a few days on the air. And, as they settle in, they should get even better.

CBS is a major broadcasting and media company. They get radio, and are especially strong and successful at sports and news formats.

People in the business say Clear Channel is a business who sells radio, but CBS is a company of radio people in the radio business. CBS is smart on the sales side as well. And, as we all know...revenue and profit is the goal of all businesses.

Just how intelligently WKNR reacts will determine if they have any realistic shot long-term to remain in the sportstalk format.

If not, maybe fulltime talk? The typical age of most talk show listeners begins at about age 45. Thus, WKNR's much weaker night signal wouldn't be such a negative since most middle-aged/older adults watch TV at night.

 

[becker5]

92.3 needs to lock down one of the major sports. Right now 1100am has the Tribe and Cavs and WMMS has the Browns.

 

[kaysguy]

92.3 needs to lock down one of the major sports. Right now 1100am has the Tribe and Cavs and WMMS has the Browns.

That will happen soon. In Pittsburgh, after a year, the CBS Sports Talker ("KDKA-FM") is bidding for the Pirates rights, which are the only ones currently up for bid, but they would be fools not to compete for the Steelers. The Penguins, though, got their own HD channel full-time from the station they are on, and might take more to move.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

92.3 needs to lock down one of the major sports. Right now 1100am has the Tribe and Cavs and WMMS has the Browns.

I have talked about this since we first started putting together the information about this station. At this point, such a statement is like saying "92.3 really needs a transmitter". You are about the 105th person to say this.

This was addressed in Saturday's PD article by Chuck Yarborough, complete with expiration dates for the teams' current deals with Clear Channel.

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2011/09/wkrk_fm923_the_fan_replaces_ro.html

The Indians contract with WTAM AM/1100 -- a Clear Channel station -- runs through the end of the 2012 season. Cavs spokesman Tad Carper said the team has "multiple years" remaining on its contract with WTAM, but declined to be specific. Neal Gulkis of the Browns said the team's broadcast contract with WMMS FM/100.7 lasts through this season, with an option for next year.

OMW has reported MANY times that there are strong rumblings that CBS will very, very aggressively pursue the Browns rights when they come up. Look at the station's logo colors. They're all but putting out the welcome mat for the Browns!

And don't discount the Indians - they'll pursue the Tribe, too.

It's something that Good Karma could never do, financially or signal wise (the Browns would insist on an FM flagship).

 

[Tim]

Wouldn't shock me if CBS Cleveland ends up with TWO major sports teams play-by-play: the Indians and Browns.

What a way to hurt CBS' biggest competitor: Clear Channel Cleveland.

Having 2 pro sports teams pbp would do more than just help CBS' Cleveland cluster from a ratings/revenue standpoint, but hurt WTAM's decades-old sports image.

If it were up to the teams, they'd have 40 or 50 (or more) radio station networks....rather than a huge-coverage 50,000-watt AM flagship and maybe 20-25 affilliates.

Even a local class "B" FM doesn't have the nighttime coverage of a 50kw AM....which gives stations "down network" a clear chance to get listeners in their own markets during the game broadcasts.

i.e.: WTAM's night signal, while not as good as most 50,000-watt AMs (poor maintenance to their tower and ground system)...they still at night consistently cover 250 to 500 miles in all directions from Cleveland.....NOT "38 states and half of Canada" as they've falsely claimed for years!)...which covers all of the Indians' network affilliates.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Make no mistake...CBS Radio will pull up the proverbial Brinks truck and all but offer the moon to the Browns and Indians.

'Aggressively pursue" could be an understatement. Again, look at those logo colors...orange and brown. Talk about sending a message to Oak Tree!

 

[richwithhatred]

To be clear, my points were not to say "I give up on 92.3 after a week". Not at all. I just wasn't overly blown away at this point.

About Kiley and Booms, they don't like each other. I know for a fact that they don't...or at least didn't when they were together in the past at CC. It didn't feel like much has changed since then. I believe they did their show in separate studios in the past so they wouldn't have to interact for a second aside from when the mics were on.

Point well taken about the "local callers". I guess you have to have them, but I'd love to see it not be these creeps that KNR has turned into "important parts" of their show. Yesterday I was listening to 92.3, and both Hiram and Bostonian called in within an hour of each other. And, true to form, the host (I didn't catch his name although he was pretty decent) gave them each a TON of leeway instead of allowing their 90 seconds and moving on. That's the real problem. If they want to allow these radio whore callers to call in, fine...but limit them to the same limits other callers have because, in short, these guys add NOTHING that Joe from whatever city will bring to the table. I've always hated how KNR would treat these idiots like they were beat reporters, and 92.3 is doing the same. Maybe it's just something I hate about sports talk radio in general.

I found it interesting that in the same post someone said that KNR talent was pilferred that much, and then a list of 5 different people were named. That seems like a good amount to me.

At least to this point no one is ringing a cowbell every 2 seconds!!!

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

I found it interesting that in the same post someone said that KNR talent was pilferred that much, and then a list of 5 different people were named. That seems like a good amount to me.

Since I said that, let me explain myself.

* 92.3 hired exactly one person from the current WKNR staff - midday producer/weekend 20/20 anchor Lindsay Foltin, who was a part-timer at WKNR.

* Of the weekday main hosts, exactly ZERO have any experience working at WKNR, either at the Galleria or on Broadview Road. ZERO. Kiley & Booms? No WKNR background. Andy Baskin and (player to be named later)? Same. Adam "The Bull" and Dustin Fox? Basically zero (Dustin has done some call ins on WKNR, but was not a staff member there, just an outside guest). Ken Carman? Zero.

* Of the remaining people, those with ties to WKNR are all in the past. Jeff Thomas didn't even work for WKNR (he was employed by Metro Networks), and for that matter, same for Daryl Ruiter until he moved in-house there.

The BSK and Ken Silverstein? Of course they both have WKNR in their past, but not recently in either case. (Even Jeff Thomas worked at WEOL/930 Elyria for a year.)

Five with *some* tie to WKNR? That's not a lot, and does not even touch the regular, weekday air staff (save for whatever Lindsay, a former WKNR part-timer, contributes on "Cleveland's Talking Heads".)

They made not even one attempt to poach an existing WKNR full-time staffer. Not even one. Otherwise, it's kinda hard to hire a dozen people to staff a new sports radio station without hiring *someone* with WKNR on their past resume.

 

[Tim]

Why not hire a fulltime WKNR host for fulltime on 923TheFan?

Which one would you want to hear on TheFan who's now fulltime on WKNR?

Really, none of the mainstays at WKNR would really fit TheFan's programming approach.

You know...short skirts/hot chicks/which athlete is sleeping with whom/on and on and on about what's happening in the various hosts' personal lives. I mean, come on....that's BORING! If that's what people like, great...you can have it..go to 850, til the consultants tell them to stop the fluff. I like sports, myself. CBS Cleveland isn't playing college radio, folks.

While I personally can listen to Roda when he's alone, and have always liked Greg Brinda....no offense...but, who else would CBS want on TheFan?

 

[Catmando]

To the original poster this town loves hearing the same voices over and over ad nauseum. If you dare to even bring up that you might want to have someone different to listen too people on message boards go crazy. It was nice today though that Ken Silverstein was not on in the morning like they originally planned. He should have been put out to pasture years ago.

Taking into consideration how many hosts that have never been hosts in Cleveland before that started on 92.3 this week there is CLEARLY no truth to that statement. If it was half as true as you claim it was you would have people boycotting the station very vocally about how many "carpetbaggers" were on 92.3.

I have no clue what your vendetta is against Ken Silverstein. You complain about him like he owes you money or something. If you are really that worried about a host that does sports talk at 7AM ion a Saturday morning you have more issues than you really know.

 

[VODood]

@vjm... ESPN Radio's national VO is Jim Cutler. Cutler is also the VO for ABC News Radio...and WTAM's VO. In fact, Cutler is the VO for WGR/Buffalo, Andy Roth's former station.

Turner is on many of CBS' sports and TV stations. He's got a good relationship with CBS in other markets. They like him... and I'm sure to blow off WKNR CBS would have to make it worth is while.

Turner voices Fox Sports promos (Dick Ervasti is the network VO) and does some ESPN work but is not the network voice, radio or TV. He's been the imaging voice for Learfield sports network for over ten years.

http://www.paulturnerproductions.com/home/Amazing.

 

[vjm]

@vjm... ESPN Radio's national VO is Jim Cutler. Cutler is also the VO for ABC News Radio...and WTAM's VO. In fact, Cutler is the VO for WGR/Buffalo, Andy Roth's former station.

Turner is on many of CBS' sports and TV stations. He's got a good relationship with CBS in other markets. They like him... and I'm sure to blow off WKNR CBS would have to make it worth is while.

Turner voices Fox Sports promos (Dick Ervasti is the network VO) and does some ESPN work but is not the network voice, radio or TV. He's been the imaging voice for Learfield sports network for over ten years.

http://www.paulturnerproductions.com/home/Amazing.

I was incorrect about ESPN, and I'll cop to that.

But my point was that Turner is a prolific imaging voice, and it's not a weakness, but a strength to have him aboard.