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Buffalo 92.9 WBUF Question

Mark 1981,

Someone else brought this Shane fellow into the discussion, not I. Buffalo seems to be a market that is firmly rooted in the distant past. Some people just want what was offered 40 to 50 years ago. Turner Classic Movies serves a niche for movie buffs. I suppose some station could just run tapes of old Radio shows, but monetizing it is problematic...
 
Weather? app on smartphone.
Traffic? app on smartphone.
Headlines: app on smartphone.
Artist bio: Wikipedia, but there is better...
Song title: Digital display.
Annoying: Teddy Turntable on stations with jocks who have nothing to say.
There's a reason why I stick with the radio.
I have been burned too many times by my phone telling me it will not rain and it does.
Radio is more to the second. Far more accurate than a stupid machine.
The art of hitting a post is an art and as long as the information is useful, then good. I do agree though that we don't need to hear about who might win America's got talent in between songs though. Useful and local. Hit a post, but make the info count, and for good reason.
Traffic apps are (often) clueless to construction and accidents.
Radio is just so much better all around.
 
When you judge Shane, or any of the talent from 50 years ago, you would need more than an aircheck to understand the context. So much of the art of radio has been lost thanks to the computerization of the medium. For example, the art of the segue has been lost, except for some club DJs who manage to weave tempos and musical themes into sets that keep people engaged for far longer than many radio stations. Rigid rotation rules have supplanted the ability to put songs in some semblance of musical order based on tempo, instrumentation, content, and artist. I understood Shane's appeal even if I wasn't his biggest fan. He created his own character, his own mythos, that resonated with a significant audience segment. It was, however, not unlike an old movie. It was of its time. There are few examples of similarly effective presentation in radio today.

The "Steve Harvey" response is shallow in that he's a great communicator primary to a select group of listeners who share a similar world view. Those listeners really have no viable radio alternative to Steve Harvey in the Buffalo/Niagara Falls market.

If you want a jukebox, there are plenty of options out there. Several posters here have expressed a negative response to "jock blather." That's because there's a lot of generic pap between records for reasons already stated - out of market, voice tracked, or syndicated jocks who are not of the moment and of the place that they're being heard. Underdeveloped, or undeveloped talent who will work for meager pay. Formats that give more time to "the station voice" and drop-in promos than jocks who could convey the same information in a more personally relevant way.

If radio is to survive, it has to become relatable again. Otherwise, its only advantages are that it's free and reaches those people who don't have or can't afford decent internet.
 
You'll tell me that the economic realities of radio forced those changes. The economic reality is that corporations overpaid and overleveraged themselves, counting on growth and synergies (a/k/a cuts) to forge a path to profitability.
But when consolidation occurred, we were nearly a decade and a half away from the iPhone and the 2008 recession. And those mid '90's deals were sound at the time.
In most cases, even multiple bankruptcies have failed to do the trick.
And you are confusing ad revenue... which is off over 60% since 2005 with corporate debt. Today, no station can make money from the type of radio we did in the 1990's because the money moved.
If anything, it put radio in the hands of vulture capitalists who want to pick the marrow out of the bones before they try to find another sucker to buy the real estate for more than the station license is worth.
Most of the real estate has been sold now, either for development or for "vertical real estate" tower management company operations.
What's the answer? Beats me. I do know one thing. It sure ain't more consolidation. Maybe if they were forced to turn in the licenses of perennial losers so somebody else had a chance to do something innovative the medium might have a chance at relevancy. Anybody see that happening?
The partial solution that has worked in so many other countries is to have single companies own an entire national coverage set of several hundred stations doing a national service. Great talent with access to trend setters, music and entertainment stars and local-by-market online presence for all the other elements.
 
There's a reason why I stick with the radio.
I have been burned too many times by my phone telling me it will not rain and it does.
Radio is more to the second. Far more accurate than a stupid machine.
Where do you think the radio stations get their news and traffic and weather information? The same places.
The art of hitting a post is an art
But younger generations hate, absolutely hate, talking over the intro. "Hitting the post" is a radio insider skill that listeners detest.
and as long as the information is useful, then good. I do agree though that we don't need to hear about who might win America's got talent in between songs though. Useful and local. Hit a post, but make the info count, and for good reason.
Traffic apps are (often) clueless to construction and accidents.
Radio is just so much better all around.
Not really, and that is why several generations now have little use for what you describe.
 
The "Steve Harvey" response is shallow in that he's a great communicator primary to a select group of listeners who share a similar world view.

There's nothing "shallow" about it. It's a fact. The way format radio works is everybody appeals to their select group of listeners. The same could be said about Shane or Shredd & Ragan or anyone else, local or national. In this case, he happens to be national. Nothing wrong with that. He's good at what he does. Fans of conservative talk hosts have no viable alternative either. Fans of sports talk have no viable alternative either. Fans of alternative rock have no viable alternative. At least not with broadcast radio. If Nielsen measured ALL media, and not just broadcast, we'd see a very different picture, and one that likely wouldn't favor local radio as much.

If radio is to survive, it has to become relatable again.

I think radio IS relatable in its own way. Those who listen do so out of choice, not because it's the only option. Because of choice, what people want from radio is different now from what they wanted 40 years ago. As I said, some people want local hosts, and others don't. There is no one-size-fits-all. Conversely from the ownership perspective, not every station in a cluster has to be in the Top 5. The goal isn't individual station ratings, but success of the cluster. That too is different from the way success was once measured. The reality is that if radio is to survive, it has to learn how to live with less. Because the pie has been divided so the slices are smaller, and that's not going to change. People are not throwing away their digital devices and going back to transistors. If living with less means less local talent, then that's what it means. For talent, there are also lots of options beyond broadcast radio. So the whole picture is much bigger than it ever was.
 
There's a reason why I stick with the radio.
I have been burned too many times by my phone telling me it will not rain and it does.
Radio is more to the second. Far more accurate than a stupid machine.
The art of hitting a post is an art and as long as the information is useful, then good. I do agree though that we don't need to hear about who might win America's got talent in between songs though. Useful and local. Hit a post, but make the info count, and for good reason.
Traffic apps are (often) clueless to construction and accidents.
Radio is just so much better all around.
I appreciate your passion for radio, Yezi. But you overstate the power of radio.

Radio traffic reporters in Buffalo depend on NITTEC, a quasi-governmental agency headquartered downtown that employs cameras on all of the local expressways. When I’m heading from Amherst to West Seneca during afternoon drive on a weekday, I check the NITTEC website myself before heading out for alerts. i review their traffic cameras on the expressway I’m using. I don’t need radio. In the “old days,” one of the trafficcopters would spot accidents on local streets and at intersections. But there’s no way of identifying such accidents today. If it’s at a major intersection, NITTEC might get word and list it. There are no longer any copters or planes monitoring traffic for radio stations today, at least in our market. The radio guys are dependent on hearing about accidents on police scanners, which is hit or miss, or by listeners calling in with information. Not very reliable. As I was traveling home from Michigan this week, my Waze app alerted me to construction and accidents. It told me if police were lurking or if there was a disabled vehicle on the shoulder. And when there are slowdowns, I’m able to monitor just how long the delay will be on the map. Not sure what app you’re using, Yezi. But Waze is more reliable than radio.

Indeed, there are unreliable weather apps. I’m constantly telling my wife to ignore weather.com. I’ve bookmarked the Buffalo office of the National Weather Service. They’re rarely wrong. And I have the MyRadar app on my phone, which is extremely reliable. When I get an alert it’s going to start raining in the next 20 minutes, it’s usually right. Before heading out for a bike ride, I check the app for any rain showers that could be moving in. I’m not using radio.

The fact is radio is no longer necessary when it comes to weather, traffic, breaking news, school closings, sports scores and stocks. Yet, when something like the tornado that hit downtown Buffalo in August — or during a severe winter storm — radio can have an impact by expanding on what we’re learning on our phones. I listened to WBEN for 90 minutes on the afternoon of the tornado. I heard interviews with Meteorologist Andy Parker and local elected leaders. There were live news conferences. Listeners phoned in with how they were affected. It was compelling, interesting radio. But there was just one station providing such coverage. Perhaps some music stations that have live announcers shared some information about the tornado. I didn’t scan the dial that day, so I’m hesitant to comment.

I’m just suggesting that radio is no longer the go-to source that it once was.
 
I’m just suggesting that radio is no longer the go-to source that it once was.

Things change after 100 years. Once people had other options, they used them. The pie got cut into smaller slices. That's where we are now.

Radio is a medium. It's power is based on how it's used, both from the particular station, and the particular user. If the user wants more specialized information, it's available from other sources.
 
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There's a reason why I stick with the radio.
I have been burned too many times by my phone telling me it will not rain and it does.
Radio is more to the second. Far more accurate than a stupid machine.
The art of hitting a post is an art and as long as the information is useful, then good. I do agree though that we don't need to hear about who might win America's got talent in between songs though. Useful and local. Hit a post, but make the info count, and for good reason.
Traffic apps are (often) clueless to construction and accidents.
Radio is just so much better all around.
More accurate? Where do you think the information you are getting on the Radio is coming from? Announcers get traffic and weather updates from other sources. They have no crystal ball.

Nobody but old Radio geeks care about "Hitting A Post". Listeners don't know what that is nor do they care. In fact, people hate it when jocks talk over a song. That may have been common on Top 40 stations 50 years ago, but not on Album Rock formats.

"Live & Local" only matters if effort is being used. Jocks who did show prep and could inform & entertain. They weren't many of those even when local Radio was "Live" 24 hours a day...
 
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But when consolidation occurred, we were nearly a decade and a half away from the iPhone and the 2008 recession. And those mid '90's deals were sound at the time.

And you are confusing ad revenue... which is off over 60% since 2005 with corporate debt. Today, no station can make money from the type of radio we did in the 1990's because the money moved.

Most of the real estate has been sold now, either for development or for "vertical real estate" tower management company operations.

The partial solution that has worked in so many other countries is to have single companies own an entire national coverage set of several hundred stations doing a national service. Great talent with access to trend setters, music and entertainment stars and local-by-market online presence for all the other elements.
Several companies, including the largest, hit bankruptcy for the first time before 2005. Overpayment and overleveraging were a major issue before the iPhone showed up. Even then, the iPhone primarily replaced CDs, cassettes, and then-dead vinyl. Radio really began to falter when the big corporations started ever-going talent drain.

The countries where on entity owns the entire national coverage are generally far smaller and less diverse than the United States. C'mon, David, you've traveled across this country more than once. There are significant regional differences. BBC1, BBC2, and BBC3 just aren't the answer, even with digital subchannels. National networks have their place, but even TV news nets are shrinking in influence as more and more alternative "news" sites become available that are more regionally focused in many cases. If anything, social media proves that local interest generally outweighs national interest. As radio content has lost local flavor and personalities the medium has declined. How many of the big corps have tried to cut their way to prosperity while seeing overall revenue, cume, and TSL decline? You can cite the availability of other listening options, but what drove people there in the first place?

Perhaps it's too late to restructure, perhaps not. One thing is for sure, continuing along the same generic path is simply going the route of a bunch of people in big offices padding their retirement for a few more years before the next corporate collapse, further damaging the media itself in the process.
 
Several companies, including the largest, hit bankruptcy for the first time before 2005.
Clear Channel did not go into bankruptcy in that period. The founders, the Mays family and McCombs sold in the now-famous private equity transaction that moved ownership to a bunch of investment banks. While the deal was held up due to the building recession and buyer remorse, it went through.
Overpayment and overleveraging were a major issue before the iPhone showed up. Even then, the iPhone primarily replaced CDs, cassettes, and then-dead vinyl. Radio really began to falter when the big corporations started ever-going talent drain.
The iPad replaced CDs and cassettes, and that was around the start of the New Millenium. As iPhones and competitive "smart phones" increased their share of the market, we saw more and more audio streams taking radio audience.

At the same time, radio did not recover well from the recession, with billing off by a never-recovered one third. And that "third" was even greater, as we have to include the burst of inflation at that time which further reduced the real dollars of radio. Oh, and in the top "50" markets, the PPM showed about 1/3 less AQH listening compared to the diary, so stations had lower ratings (not shares) and agencies buy on CPP... Cost Per rating Point.
The countries where on entity owns the entire national coverage are generally far smaller and less diverse than the United States. C'mon, David, you've traveled across this country more than once.
Everywhere from Chile (3000 miles from end to end) to Germany and Italy and many others have commercial national radio stations. Not networks, but a single station on a bunch of frequencies. It works, and definitely works in the US... just look at K-Love! The problem is that owners here wanted big city clusters, not a national service.
There are significant regional differences. BBC1, BBC2, and BBC3 just aren't the answer, even with digital subchannels.
The internet has reduced regional differences significantly. And the big station groups are saving money by doing national music research rather than costly market by market music testing.

And I am talking about national commercial stations, and just a look at Germany, Hungary, Italy, Spain, France, Chile, Colombia and many other nations have such operations. While all those nations are smaller, the concept of having the top talent in the key city or cities where they have everything from artists to new releases to celebrities available is universal.
National networks have their place, but even TV news nets are shrinking in influence as more and more alternative "news" sites become available that are more regionally focused in many cases. If anything, social media proves that local interest generally outweighs national interest.
But in this case we are talking about traditional ad supported radio. In the nations where national stations operate, the percentage of ad money going to radio is higher than in the US because advertisers, through their agencies, prefer the simplicity, security and content guarantee of those full-country stations.

One of the biggest issues with radio is that it is hard and very complex to buy. National streams and podcasts and the like are simple to buy. We often forget that this complexity of radio is a big part of why budgets don't go to radio the way they used to.
As radio content has lost local flavor and personalities the medium has declined.
Except for mornings, most listeners under 40 or so don't want jocks "hitting the post" and chattering over the songs. That worked when we had little or no other contact with the outside world, but now people text and post on social media all day long and don't want a jock talking at them.

And we see with Seacreast, Bones, Charlemagne and others that national or "almost national" shows work as well as or better than most local show.
How many of the big corps have tried to cut their way to prosperity while seeing overall revenue, cume, and TSL decline? You can cite the availability of other listening options, but what drove people there in the first place?
Revenue has declined because of a bunch of other factors, starting with more options for advertisers. Budgets are split into more pieces.

Radio cume is pretty close to what it was 20 years ago. The biggest loss is in teens and 18-24... because those listeners want one-to-one music services with no ads and no talking between the songs.

The first big TSL loss came when video games became very popular. People shared time with gaming, and gave less to radio. This was not a radio content issues; it was an issue of more alternative things to spend time on.
Perhaps it's too late to restructure, perhaps not. One thing is for sure, continuing along the same generic path is simply going the route of a bunch of people in big offices padding their retirement for a few more years before the next corporate collapse, further damaging the media itself in the process.
Radio is not one-to-one and has ads. Those are the two issues that make those in the younger generation prefer new media.

But if you look in most US markets, those outside the very top don't have compelling stations, talent or not. Where I live, a market of a half-million, I can't listen to any station with pleasure. And even at my age, I don't want local DJs making things worse by talking between songs... usually about stuff I already saw on the web hours or days before.
 
Perhaps it's too late to restructure, perhaps not. One thing is for sure, continuing along the same generic path is simply going the route of a bunch of people in big offices padding their retirement for a few more years before the next corporate collapse, further damaging the media itself in the process.
Here is an article that shows what "insiders" seem to think.


I agree with some, but still believe that national radio services could be the only answer.

The issue is "how does radio pay its way" with fewer commercials while meeting increasing costs and the desire of younger people for "personal playlists".
 
Several companies, including the largest, hit bankruptcy for the first time before 2005. Overpayment and overleveraging were a major issue before the iPhone showed up. Even then, the iPhone primarily replaced CDs, cassettes, and then-dead vinyl. Radio really began to falter when the big corporations started ever-going talent drain.

Radio began to falter when people had other alternatives, and that began in the 1980s. We started to see the decline of radio TSL in the late 1980s as people started making home tapes for their cars. The home taping of music was such a disruption that the music industry demanded a blank tape tax to compensate them for sales losses. People replaced their car radios with systems that played back tapes and later CDs. Anything to get away from the radio-imposed playlists, talent, and commercials. So even in the days before radio consolidation, when radio stations were operating with full local staffs, people were looking for alternatives so they could hear their own personal playlists without interruption.

Consolidation didn't cause the loss of local talent. Even before consolidation, thousands of radio stations were using 24/7 satellite-delivered formats from Satellite Music Networks, TranStar (later UniStar), and Jones. These companies began in the 1980s. They replaced the tape-distributed format services that began in the 1960s. The advantage of satellite distribution was that it was real-time distribution, so the local stations only needed to add local commercials and IDs. Everything else came from the satellite. Some stations were looking for an alternative to satellite services, and that's when voicetracking was created in 1993 (long before consolidation). The idea was for in-house talent to pre-record shifts and integrate with music (already digitized on station hard drives) & commercials through the station automation. So the "talent drain" wasn't caused by consolidation. It was caused by technology.

This mythology that radio was all owned by small local companies and destroyed by consolidation after 1996 is total fiction. At one time, some of the biggest corporations in the country owned radio stations. Companies like GE, RCA, Westinghouse, and Nationwide Insurance make today's big radio companies look like mom&pops. One by one, they sold out, and caused chaos in radio ownership. GE sold WGY to a small company called Empire Radio Partners in 1985. Of course the budgets of radio under a big corporation were a lot bigger than a small radio-only company. So in 1993, Empire Radio Partners went bankrupt, and Dame Media picked it up in a bankruptcy sale. Dame Media syndicated the Mike Gallagher show, and that's how he ended up on WGY. All this happened before consolidation. At the same time, there was the Rush Limbaugh show that was taking over mid-days on top-rated talk stations. Prior to Rush, the main area for syndicated talk was after 7PM. That's where NBC TalkNet, ABC TalkRadio, and Mutual's Larry King Show operated. But Rush brought national talk into the daytime, and this was all before consolidation.

You can cite the availability of other listening options, but what drove people there in the first place?

As I said, their own personal taste drove them there in the 1980s. The minute people had alternatives to radio, they took them. Even at a time when radio stations had full local staffs and local music decisions, people made their own personal playlists, seeking to avoid commercials and other interruptions. This isn't a recent thing, and wasn't caused by consolidation. You can't talk about music radio without talking about the music business, and by the 80s, the music was becoming more individualized than it had been before. You didn't have the mass appeal acts like The Beatles anymore. Pop music was becoming very diverse, and the rise of rap music was driving people away from general pop music. The way to avoid music you didn't like was make your own tapes, and that's what people did. At the same time, the music industry was consolidating. At one time, there were lots of record labels, all owned by US companies or individuals. By the end of the 80s, the two biggest record labels: RCA and Columbia, were sold to foreign conglomerates that were looking to make music an international business. They were signing acts without concern over radio airplay. The foreign record labels wanted to get their music directly to consumers without the gatekeepers in radio. So the music was changing and that had an effect on where people got their music. That in turn changed radio listening, all before consolidation.
 
Getting back to WBUF, that station was previously owned by CBS, who did a corporate-wide deal with the Jack format. They ran it successfully for 15 years, before dropping it for locally programmed classic rock in 2020. They had local talent in the daytime for two years, and got better ratings with Jack. So they added currents and some syndication and that's where they are now.



Bottom line: The station did better when it had no DJs and ran the national Jack format than it does now. The reality is the rock audience is either well served by 97Rock or they're using their own personalized playlists. There are no other mass appeal formats that would do better than rock without cannibalizing one of their other stations.
 
Getting back to WBUF, that station was previously owned by CBS, who did a corporate-wide deal with the Jack format. They ran it successfully for 15 years, before dropping it for locally programmed classic rock in 2020. They had local talent in the daytime for two years, and got better ratings with Jack. So they added currents and some syndication and that's where they are now.



Bottom line: The station did better when it had no DJs and ran the national Jack format than it does now. The reality is the rock audience is either well served by 97Rock or they're using their own personalized playlists. There are no other mass appeal formats that would do better than rock without cannibalizing one of their other stations.
The rock format that WBUF has now sucks. The ratings are abysmal. Are you saying they deliberately put on a format that won't interfere with WYRK or WBLK? Obviously, the music that JACK played had more appeal than the current product. Even the programming experts there should have figured that out by now...
 
Are you saying they deliberately put on a format that won't interfere with WYRK or WBLK?

What do you think? We've talked earlier in this thread about classic country. Can Buffalo support three country stations without it hurting WYRK? Can Buffalo support a second urban station without it hurting WBLK? So they play rock. That way they clear two Townsquare shows in a large market. The music is locally programmed. Are you saying that they should drop local programming for national? That's not what the conventional wisdom here says.
 
What do you think? We've talked earlier in this thread about classic country. Can Buffalo support three country stations without it hurting WYRK? Can Buffalo support a second urban station without it hurting WBLK? So they play rock. That way they clear two Townsquare shows in a large market. The music is locally programmed. Are you saying that they should drop local programming for national? That's not what the conventional wisdom here says.
Buffalo doesn't want 2 Country formats (See The Wolf).
97 Rock gets a free pass because of "heritage" listeners. There's no demand for more of the same product. WBUF has tried various Rock playlists with no success in taking ratings from 97 Rock. Sure, they get the Beer show on in another market. They must be satisfied with that...
 
Sure, they get the Beer show on in another market. They must be satisfied with that...
They also run Loudwire (owned by Townsquare) five nights a week.


WBUF plays a different mix of rock from 97Rock. Rock is more than just classic music. But the audience is too splintered.

Radio is more than just 6+ Nielsen ratings.
 
Which "hits" would you like them to play? Today's pop hits? Or some other format? It was easier 50 years ago when Top 40 was a single consensus format that everyone listened to for current music. Today it's very hard to define what today's hits are.
Flip it _ top 40 remixes
 
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