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93.3 Hitting The Wall?

N

Nu_Roo_2

I notice that 93.3's growth 12+ has stalled, at least for now, below 3.0 12+. Yes, I know what I just said about 12+ in the last topic, but that's pretty darn low for a station with a signal that good (even better than I ever expected). In fact, it's only a couple tenths of a point higher than one of CC class A's, 105.7. Even if CC's hellbent on wasting that signal as an "irritant" station for competitors (which makes little sense in a market that's short on big signals), they should be able to do better than they are now. But with that weird format I'm not surprised. <P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>
 
Good point on the signal... its the same site originally used by 96.3, and only a few miles from the original 99.7 site. And towards Columbus it's a full B. Granted, those stations downtown (including 94.7) on the WBNS tower have a better path, as well as being closer to the "lite Rock" audience in northern Franklin and Delaware counties.

93.3 was clearly designed to take on Sunny 95, but I see no effect (12+) on that station over the last few books. Those with the Arbitron data may differ, but I think this shows the strength of Saga's programing, rather than any signal disparity.
 
> Good point on the signal... its the same site originally
> used by 96.3, and only a few miles from the original 99.7
> site. And towards Columbus it's a full B. Granted, those
> stations downtown (including 94.7) on the WBNS tower have a
> better path, as well as being closer to the "lite Rock"
> audience in northern Franklin and Delaware counties.
>
> 93.3 was clearly designed to take on Sunny 95, but I see no
> effect (12+) on that station over the last few books. Those
> with the Arbitron data may differ, but I think this shows
> the strength of Saga's programing, rather than any signal
> disparity.
>

Columbus is a very "conservative" market, and Sunny listeners probably aren't chomping at the bit to find a new radio station. Many casual listeners would be surprised to find out that 93.3 exists. People know certain call letters (WCOL, WNCI, WBNS, WSNY, WTVN) and don't necessarily know what kind of music they all play. 93.3 will no time soon have ratings parity with Sunny 95 just because these soccer moms and office slaves will never spin their radio dial and find it. 105.7 is the same deal... Q-FM 96 has been around forever, so there isn't a lot of demand for another classic rocker. Wait until 106.7 signs on... if that signal doesn't have a very unique format, it might as well be a dead carrier.
 
> > Good point on the signal... its the same site originally
> > used by 96.3, and only a few miles from the original 99.7
> > site. And towards Columbus it's a full B. Granted, those
> > stations downtown (including 94.7) on the WBNS tower have
> a
> > better path, as well as being closer to the "lite Rock"
> > audience in northern Franklin and Delaware counties.
> >
> > 93.3 was clearly designed to take on Sunny 95, but I see
> no
> > effect (12+) on that station over the last few books.
> Those
> > with the Arbitron data may differ, but I think this shows
> > the strength of Saga's programing, rather than any signal
> > disparity.
> >
>
> Columbus is a very "conservative" market, and Sunny
> listeners probably aren't chomping at the bit to find a new
> radio station. Many casual listeners would be surprised to
> find out that 93.3 exists. People know certain call letters
> (WCOL, WNCI, WBNS, WSNY, WTVN) and don't necessarily know
> what kind of music they all play. 93.3 will no time soon
> have ratings parity with Sunny 95 just because these soccer
> moms and office slaves will never spin their radio dial and
> find it. 105.7 is the same deal... Q-FM 96 has been around
> forever, so there isn't a lot of demand for another classic
> rocker. Wait until 106.7 signs on... if that signal doesn't
> have a very unique format, it might as well be a dead
> carrier.
>

In their core demo, Women 25-54, WSNY has fallen from an 11.1 share in Spring 2004 to a 6.1 in Spring 2005. Dino and Stacy also saw their worst numbers ever. They went from an 11.6 share in Spring 2004 to a 6.1 in this book (and an 8.6 in the Winter 2005 book!). Their cume is down significantly in every daypart when looking Spring to Spring.

The AC environment in the market has become very competitive and listeners are starting to sample and move away from WSNY to WCVO, WLZT and even WBNS.
 
> > > Good point on the signal... its the same site originally
>
> > > used by 96.3, and only a few miles from the original
> 99.7
> > > site. And towards Columbus it's a full B. Granted,
> those
> > > stations downtown (including 94.7) on the WBNS tower
> have
> > a
> > > better path, as well as being closer to the "lite Rock"
> > > audience in northern Franklin and Delaware counties.
> > >
> > > 93.3 was clearly designed to take on Sunny 95, but I see
>
> > no
> > > effect (12+) on that station over the last few books.
> > Those
> > > with the Arbitron data may differ, but I think this
> shows
> > > the strength of Saga's programing, rather than any
> signal
> > > disparity.
> > >
> >
> > Columbus is a very "conservative" market, and Sunny
> > listeners probably aren't chomping at the bit to find a
> new
> > radio station. Many casual listeners would be surprised
> to
> > find out that 93.3 exists. People know certain call
> letters
> > (WCOL, WNCI, WBNS, WSNY, WTVN) and don't necessarily know
> > what kind of music they all play. 93.3 will no time soon
> > have ratings parity with Sunny 95 just because these
> soccer
> > moms and office slaves will never spin their radio dial
> and
> > find it. 105.7 is the same deal... Q-FM 96 has been around
>
> > forever, so there isn't a lot of demand for another
> classic
> > rocker. Wait until 106.7 signs on... if that signal
> doesn't
> > have a very unique format, it might as well be a dead
> > carrier.
> >
>
> In their core demo, Women 25-54, WSNY has fallen from an
> 11.1 share in Spring 2004 to a 6.1 in Spring 2005. Dino and
> Stacy also saw their worst numbers ever. They went from an
> 11.6 share in Spring 2004 to a 6.1 in this book (and an 8.6
> in the Winter 2005 book!). Their cume is down significantly
> in every daypart when looking Spring to Spring.
>
> The AC environment in the market has become very competitive
> and listeners are starting to sample and move away from WSNY
> to WCVO, WLZT and even WBNS.
>
Wonder if Ted is taking some of the listeners attention. It has a 1.2 share, up from a 1 but it's a completely different audience from a year ago when it was the Eagle.

And there's also 93.3 that is getting close to a 3 share that did not exist a year and a half ago. Some of those listeners had to come from WSNY and WBNS and their TSL's.
 
> > > > Good point on the signal... its the same site
> originally
> >
> > > > used by 96.3, and only a few miles from the original
> > 99.7
> > > > site. And towards Columbus it's a full B. Granted,
> > those
> > > > stations downtown (including 94.7) on the WBNS tower
> > have
> > > a
> > > > better path, as well as being closer to the "lite
> Rock"
> > > > audience in northern Franklin and Delaware counties.
> > > >
> > > > 93.3 was clearly designed to take on Sunny 95, but I
> see
> >
> > > no
> > > > effect (12+) on that station over the last few books.
>
> > > Those
> > > > with the Arbitron data may differ, but I think this
> > shows
> > > > the strength of Saga's programing, rather than any
> > signal
> > > > disparity.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Columbus is a very "conservative" market, and Sunny
> > > listeners probably aren't chomping at the bit to find a
> > new
> > > radio station. Many casual listeners would be surprised
>
> > to
> > > find out that 93.3 exists. People know certain call
> > letters
> > > (WCOL, WNCI, WBNS, WSNY, WTVN) and don't necessarily
> know
> > > what kind of music they all play. 93.3 will no time
> soon
> > > have ratings parity with Sunny 95 just because these
> > soccer
> > > moms and office slaves will never spin their radio dial
> > and
> > > find it. 105.7 is the same deal... Q-FM 96 has been
> around
> >
> > > forever, so there isn't a lot of demand for another
> > classic
> > > rocker. Wait until 106.7 signs on... if that signal
> > doesn't
> > > have a very unique format, it might as well be a dead
> > > carrier.
> > >
> >
> > In their core demo, Women 25-54, WSNY has fallen from an
> > 11.1 share in Spring 2004 to a 6.1 in Spring 2005. Dino
> and
> > Stacy also saw their worst numbers ever. They went from
> an
> > 11.6 share in Spring 2004 to a 6.1 in this book (and an
> 8.6
> > in the Winter 2005 book!). Their cume is down
> significantly
> > in every daypart when looking Spring to Spring.
> >
> > The AC environment in the market has become very
> competitive
> > and listeners are starting to sample and move away from
> WSNY
> > to WCVO, WLZT and even WBNS.
> >
> Wonder if Ted is taking some of the listeners attention. It
> has a 1.2 share, up from a 1 but it's a completely different
> audience from a year ago when it was the Eagle.
>
> And there's also 93.3 that is getting close to a 3 share
> that did not exist a year and a half ago. Some of those
> listeners had to come from WSNY and WBNS and their TSL's.
>

On a side note they are now calling themselves 933 fm most of the time and not 933 lite-fm.
 
> > > > > Good point on the signal... its the same site
> > originally
> > >
> > > > > used by 96.3, and only a few miles from the original
>
> > > 99.7
> > > > > site. And towards Columbus it's a full B. Granted,
> > > those
> > > > > stations downtown (including 94.7) on the WBNS tower
>
> > > have
> > > > a
> > > > > better path, as well as being closer to the "lite
> > Rock"
> > > > > audience in northern Franklin and Delaware counties.
>
> > > > >
> > > > > 93.3 was clearly designed to take on Sunny 95, but I
>
> > see
> > >
> > > > no
> > > > > effect (12+) on that station over the last few
> books.
> >
> > > > Those
> > > > > with the Arbitron data may differ, but I think this
> > > shows
> > > > > the strength of Saga's programing, rather than any
> > > signal
> > > > > disparity.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Columbus is a very "conservative" market, and Sunny
> > > > listeners probably aren't chomping at the bit to find
> a
> > > new
> > > > radio station. Many casual listeners would be
> surprised
> >
> > > to
> > > > find out that 93.3 exists. People know certain call
> > > letters
> > > > (WCOL, WNCI, WBNS, WSNY, WTVN) and don't necessarily
> > know
> > > > what kind of music they all play. 93.3 will no time
> > soon
> > > > have ratings parity with Sunny 95 just because these
> > > soccer
> > > > moms and office slaves will never spin their radio
> dial
> > > and
> > > > find it. 105.7 is the same deal... Q-FM 96 has been
> > around
> > >
> > > > forever, so there isn't a lot of demand for another
> > > classic
> > > > rocker. Wait until 106.7 signs on... if that signal
> > > doesn't
> > > > have a very unique format, it might as well be a dead
> > > > carrier.
> > > >
> > >
> > > In their core demo, Women 25-54, WSNY has fallen from an
>
> > > 11.1 share in Spring 2004 to a 6.1 in Spring 2005. Dino
>
> > and
> > > Stacy also saw their worst numbers ever. They went from
>
> > an
> > > 11.6 share in Spring 2004 to a 6.1 in this book (and an
> > 8.6
> > > in the Winter 2005 book!). Their cume is down
> > significantly
> > > in every daypart when looking Spring to Spring.
> > >
> > > The AC environment in the market has become very
> > competitive
> > > and listeners are starting to sample and move away from
> > WSNY
> > > to WCVO, WLZT and even WBNS.
> > >
> > Wonder if Ted is taking some of the listeners attention.
> It
> > has a 1.2 share, up from a 1 but it's a completely
> different
> > audience from a year ago when it was the Eagle.
> >
> > And there's also 93.3 that is getting close to a 3 share
> > that did not exist a year and a half ago. Some of those
> > listeners had to come from WSNY and WBNS and their TSL's.
> >
>
> On a side note they are now calling themselves 933 fm most
> of the time and not 933 lite-fm.
>

When a big signal makes a significant change -- which doesn't happen often -- Columbus listeners can be quickly responsive. Example: When 97.1 changed to Hot AC in 2001, it shot up quickly both 12+ and especially 25-54, and stayed there awhile. (And this was without a high-profile morning show.) At least part of this is due to the smallish number of really good signals.

Despite the added competition for AC demos, 93.3 should be able to do better than they are now. But as I've said before, CC's Columbus management seems unreasonably afraid of venturing even remotely close to a clustermate's turf. Relegating a 105.7 to competitor-irritant status is one thing, but doing the same thing with the market's first really good new signal since the pre-Beatles era seems foolish. This isn't Philadelphia, where CC's WSNI first used that weird format now on 93.3, in an attempt to weaken market-dominating AC WBEB. Such a strategy could arguably make sense in a big-signal-rich market like Philly, but not here. <P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>
 
> Despite the added competition for AC demos, 93.3 should be
> able to do better than they are now. But as I've said
> before, CC's Columbus management seems unreasonably afraid
> of venturing even remotely close to a clustermate's turf.
> Relegating a 105.7 to competitor-irritant status is one
> thing, but doing the same thing with the market's first
> really good new signal since the pre-Beatles era seems
> foolish. This isn't Philadelphia, where CC's WSNI first
> used that weird format now on 93.3, in an attempt to weaken
> market-dominating AC WBEB. Such a strategy could arguably
> make sense in a big-signal-rich market like Philly, but not
> here.

Remember your history here, too. 93.3 started as a rimshot signal, and its use of the 60's-70's based AC format was as much a shot at WSNY as it was a block to any possible penetration from WODB. The strategy was to do as much damage as possible to the Saga cluster. This will continue to be its mission for the forseeable future, despite there being many other more sexy format possibilities out there. CC does not program to serve the public interest; it programs to slash and burn its competitors in efforts to gain market share. Read the Mays family's commentary over the years if you have any doubts about their motives.
 
> > Despite the added competition for AC demos, 93.3 should be
>
> > able to do better than they are now. But as I've said
> > before, CC's Columbus management seems unreasonably afraid
>
> > of venturing even remotely close to a clustermate's turf.
>
> > Relegating a 105.7 to competitor-irritant status is one
> > thing, but doing the same thing with the market's first
> > really good new signal since the pre-Beatles era seems
> > foolish. This isn't Philadelphia, where CC's WSNI first
> > used that weird format now on 93.3, in an attempt to
> weaken
> > market-dominating AC WBEB. Such a strategy could arguably
>
> > make sense in a big-signal-rich market like Philly, but
> not
> > here.
>
> Remember your history here, too. 93.3 started as a rimshot
> signal, and its use of the 60's-70's based AC format was as
> much a shot at WSNY as it was a block to any possible
> penetration from WODB. The strategy was to do as much
> damage as possible to the Saga cluster. This will continue
> to be its mission for the forseeable future, despite there
> being many other more sexy format possibilities out there.
> CC does not program to serve the public interest; it
> programs to slash and burn its competitors in efforts to
> gain market share. Read the Mays family's commentary over
> the years if you have any doubts about their motives.
>
Good points, but how do you explain CC clusters like Dayton's that include both a Hot AC and a Bright Mainstream AC, both with big signals (and both doing very well, BTW)? Indeed, they've actually moved WLQT *closer* to WMMX's turf since taking over the stations. They're not wasting one of their good signals to attack, say, Cox's dominant country station instead. That's just one of many such examples where CC seems to make better use of their properties in other markets. I can't imagine that using 93.3 just to attack Saga is CC Columbus' most profitable opportunity for that trophy move-in in a big-signal-deficient market, even it does hurt Saga some.<P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>
 
> > > Despite the added competition for AC demos, 93.3 should
> be
> >
> > > able to do better than they are now. But as I've said
> > > before, CC's Columbus management seems unreasonably
> afraid
> >
> > > of venturing even remotely close to a clustermate's
> turf.
> >
> > > Relegating a 105.7 to competitor-irritant status is one
> > > thing, but doing the same thing with the market's first
> > > really good new signal since the pre-Beatles era seems
> > > foolish. This isn't Philadelphia, where CC's WSNI first
>
> > > used that weird format now on 93.3, in an attempt to
> > weaken
> > > market-dominating AC WBEB. Such a strategy could
> arguably
> >
> > > make sense in a big-signal-rich market like Philly, but
> > not
> > > here.
> >
> > Remember your history here, too. 93.3 started as a
> rimshot
> > signal, and its use of the 60's-70's based AC format was
> as
> > much a shot at WSNY as it was a block to any possible
> > penetration from WODB. The strategy was to do as much
> > damage as possible to the Saga cluster. This will
> continue
> > to be its mission for the forseeable future, despite there
>
> > being many other more sexy format possibilities out there.
>
> > CC does not program to serve the public interest; it
> > programs to slash and burn its competitors in efforts to
> > gain market share. Read the Mays family's commentary over
>
> > the years if you have any doubts about their motives.
> >
> Good points, but how do you explain CC clusters like
> Dayton's that include both a Hot AC and a Bright Mainstream
> AC, both with big signals (and both doing very well, BTW)?
> Indeed, they've actually moved WLQT *closer* to WMMX's turf
> since taking over the stations. They're not wasting one of
> their good signals to attack, say, Cox's dominant country
> station instead. That's just one of many such examples
> where CC seems to make better use of their properties in
> other markets. I can't imagine that using 93.3 just to
> attack Saga is CC Columbus' most profitable opportunity for
> that trophy move-in in a big-signal-deficient market, even
> it does hurt Saga some.
>
WLQT in Dayton is exactly the same as Sunny 95 is here. CC had to do something to take away the Female 35-64 away from Oldies and Sunny with 93.3.
Without dominance in that demo, Saga (including Jazz) can only go so far.
 
> >
> WLQT in Dayton is exactly the same as Sunny 95 is here. CC
> had to do something to take away the Female 35-64 away from
> Oldies and Sunny with 93.3.
> Without dominance in that demo, Saga (including Jazz) can
> only go so far.
>

And they would need a big signal to do it. It may seem like a total waste to most of us, and the common listener, but they know what they are doing. Hell, my wife has had 93.3 on her presets in the car since the Christmas format last year.<P ID="signature">______________
Chris
202.FM</P>
 
> > >
> > WLQT in Dayton is exactly the same as Sunny 95 is here.

[To WCSX200]: Regardless, CC Dayton's LQT and MMX are close enough that a similar situation would give CC Columbus management a coronary. But both of these full-power Dayton stations are doing great.

>
> > CC had to do something to take away the Female 35-64 away
> from
> > Oldies and Sunny with 93.3.

[To WCSX2000]: Why? And BTW, if CC's use of 93.3's weird format in other markets is any indication, it's intended to draw primarily from AC despite the heavy oldies content. In Philly, CC's WSNI had some moderate success with this format initially, but their target -- market-leading AC WBEB -- was never hurt very much and is currently VERY strong. As for the Philly oldies station WOGL, they just had one of their best book in a long time...so much for hurting oldies. (And BEB and OGL are under separate ownership, anyway.) As for SNI, it continues to sink. I'm sure the same is in the cards for 93.3 if they continue with the current format.

> > Without dominance in that demo, Saga (including Jazz) can
> > only go so far.
> >
>
> And they would need a big signal to do it. It may seem like
> a total waste to most of us, and the common listener, but
> they know what they are doing. Hell, my wife has had 93.3 on
> her presets in the car since the Christmas format last year.
>

The question isn't whether CC is successfully pulling Females 35-54 from Saga with 93.3 (though taking 93.3's powerful signal into account, I don't think they're doing a very good job of it despite your wife's preset). The question is *why* this a priority to them at the expense of other things they could do with 93.3 -- e.g., trying to build a new powerhouse among an underserved demographic/psychographic, or doing something to closely flank and protect their current powerhouses (which would suggest going for a somewhat *younger* female demo if they're doing AC, to flank NCI and simultaneously hurt SNY's young end).

I still think that using 93.3 as an irritant to Saga is like winning an Indy race car and using it only for trips around the neighborhood. That would be fine for a used Ford Focus, but not for a trophy high-end machine with so much potential-- again, the first really good new signal in Columbus in over 40 years!

OK, I'm repeating myself again, but I think it all goes back to Clear Channel **Columbus** being afraid to have any overlap at all between cluster-mates. About a year ago the Fox's PD even told me that his station's "hardening" was because they now have a new station (93.3) playing the older and softer music. It's almost ridiculous that such divergent stations (in target and formats) should be adjusted to avoid overlap, but that demonstrates my point. I'm sure that this (exaggerated) "stepping on our own toes" concern was a (perhaps unspoken) factor in why CC Columbus decided they should use (read, "waste") their big new signal to try chipping away at Saga.

(The WORST scenario would be if the attack on Saga was motivated by the fact that Saga was the most vociferous opponent to the 93.3 move-in. If that *was* the motivator, then CC Columbus management are not just making a bad decision re 93.3, they are idiots. But I doubt they would be that unprofessional)<P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>
 
> I still think that using 93.3 as an irritant to Saga is like
> winning an Indy race car and using it only for trips around
> the neighborhood. That would be fine for a used Ford Focus,
> but not for a trophy high-end machine with so much
> potential-- again, the first really good new signal in
> Columbus in over 40 years!
>

Just wait till 106.7 signs on.. Do you think they will put a format on there that might draw possible listeners from their current property?

<P ID="signature">______________
Lenks
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>
 
> Just wait till 106.7 signs on.. Do you think they will put a
> format on there that might draw possible listeners from
> their current property?
>

One thing that really stuck in my mind was posted a while back, Smooth Jazz. If they are really trying to bring Saga down, like many think, this would truly hurt them. I think Smooth Jazz has potential in Columbus with a big signal. While it's not my favorite format, maybe it would force Saga to make changes to 103.5/104.3? Who knows? It's a waiting game.<P ID="signature">______________
Chris
202.FM</P>
 
Re: snooz jazz

> One thing that really stuck in my mind was posted a while
> back, Smooth Jazz. If they are really trying to bring Saga
> down, like many think, this would truly hurt them. I think
> Smooth Jazz has potential in Columbus with a big signal.
> While it's not my favorite format, maybe it would force Saga
> to make changes to 103.5/104.3? Who knows? It's a waiting
> game.
>

I noticed Saga recently has done a pretty heavy TV Campaign for Smooth Jazz 103.5/104.3, Ive never really seen them push these stations in their TV ads, but they are now, I wonder if they are possibly worried that the new station could take on a Smooth Jazz/Chill type format. Thinking about Smooth Jazz, it would complement the columbus CC cluster and not really erode numbers from 92.3, 93.3, 97.9, 105.7, 1230 or 610.

<P ID="signature">______________
Lenks
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>
 
Re: snooz jazz

> > One thing that really stuck in my mind was posted a while
> > back, Smooth Jazz. If they are really trying to bring Saga
>
> > down, like many think, this would truly hurt them. I think
>
> > Smooth Jazz has potential in Columbus with a big signal.
> > While it's not my favorite format, maybe it would force
> Saga
> > to make changes to 103.5/104.3? Who knows? It's a waiting
> > game.
> >
>
> I noticed Saga recently has done a pretty heavy TV Campaign
> for Smooth Jazz 103.5/104.3, Ive never really seen them push
> these stations in their TV ads, but they are now, I wonder
> if they are possibly worried that the new station could take
> on a Smooth Jazz/Chill type format. Thinking about Smooth
> Jazz, it would complement the columbus CC cluster and not
> really erode numbers from 92.3, 93.3, 97.9, 105.7, 1230 or
> 610.

I'm not much of a Smooth Jazz fan myself, but I know that CC has had tremendous success with it in various markets after initially threatening to pull the plug on it. So, unlike 93.3's weak and unproven format, Smooth Jazz is one example of something that could actually make some sense for them to pursue with a major move-in. If they're hellbent on using a good signal to hurt Saga, at least they'd be doing it with a *potentially* viable format for the market! <P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>
 
The WORST scenario would be if the attack on Saga was
> motivated by the fact that Saga was the most vociferous
> opponent to the 93.3 move-in. If that *was* the motivator,
> then CC Columbus management are not just making a bad
> decision re 93.3, they are idiots. But I doubt they would
> be that unprofessional)
>

Having been inside the belly of the CCU beast for three years, and knowing some of the principal folks involved in Columbus' hierarchy since the Bobby Hatfield WTVN days, I can tell you that it surely is that petty. Sorry to be so negative about it, but, excluding a couple of the guys in Cleveland and their current excellent local PDs at WLZT, WTVN and WCOL, the CC Columbus group and the programmers overseeing them at the corporate level are as petty and small a bunch as I've ever dealt with.
 
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